Were there more people killed during the Crusades and Inqusition than Hitler killed ?
I was reading an essay about heretics and heresy and the author claimed that the catholic church burned over 9 million women at the stake for witchcraft,what's your take on this number ?
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No idea. I know that Hitler doing "the lords work" (according to him in Mein Kampf) didn't result in nearly as many casualties as most of the historically recent genocides. It just happens to be the most recent infamous one.
Purging of the Native Americans for example, killed many more people.
Still, looking through wikipedia gave me an interesting idea of how much the Nazis at the time would get along with mainstream conservatives in the US today.
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In 1936, Heinrich Himmler, Chief of the SS, created the "Reich Central Office for the Combating of Homosexuality and Abortion."
More than one million gay German men were targeted, of whom at least 100,000 were arrested and 50,000 were serving prison terms as convicted gay men. Hundreds of European gay men living under Nazi occupation were castrated under court order.
Some persecuted under these laws would not have identified themselves as gay. Such "anti-homosexual" laws were widespread throughout the western world until the 1960s and 1970s, so many gay men did not feel safe to come forward with their stories until the 1970s when many so-called "sodomy laws" were repealed.
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Isn't that sweet.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
The issue here is obviously time. It isn't hard to figure out that something in operation for centuries like the Inquisition could potentially claim more lives than something that lasted a few years. The reason so many died at Auschwitz and the other camps is industrialization of the process of murder. Keep in mind that the institution of the Endlosung or the Final Solution was not announced to the men who would administer it until the winter of 1942. Lots of people had died before that point, obviously, but the killing ratcheted up to a ridiculous speed in the following months.
Some extremist Protestants (of the Jack Chick/Ian Paisley bent) will tell you that almost 70 million people in Europe died as a result of the various Inquistions. While we should obviously doubt this figure, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised by 9 million when we total up all the supposed witches and heretics murdered in Europe from the institution of Christianity in Western Europe to the 19th century.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
Well, I have always found this one to be annoying. People love to bandy about the concept that Hitler killed six million...
OK, now tell me what he killed six million of?
People? No. He may have killed six million Jews. Not into holocaust denial over here. That being said, he also killed a whole crap load of other people who were also considered to be a problem. I don't think that we will ever really know just how many PEOPLE he killed. But the six million figure seems to come up over and over.
As an exercise, let me suggest that there are jewish homosexuals. Some of them were killed not because they were jews but because they were gay. Should they be counted towards the total?
OK, I probably sound like A. nony moose on this one but if jews were considered subhuman and jews don't make a huge deal over the non-jew deaths, what does that say about the Negroes, Gypsies and Mentally ill who were also killed by the millions?
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Call me a Holocaust minimalist, but i always bought into the 6millionish to be the extermination of all Hitlers "undesireables"
How many millions of blacks do you think Hitler killed? cant be that high of a number, as i never hear black-supremesists complain about it...
What Would Kharn Do?
But, going back to the OP, what does it matter during which era more people were killed? Perhaps 9 million were killed at various times during different inquisitions and such. Certainly more than 9 million were systematically executed during the Holocaust. Meh. The comparison just doesn't seem relevant.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Holy shit! Did you just actually say "Negroes"? That is awesome! Sen. Sessions, is that you??
"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer
well from this site http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/The_Holocaust_-_Death_toll/id/5324946
is their numbers for the holocaust and from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
Jews 5.9 million
Soviet POWs 2–3 million
Ethnic Poles 1.8–2 million
Romani 220,000–1,500,000
Disabled 200,000–250,000
Homosexuals 5,000–15,000
Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500–5,000
however the exact numbers will never be known, however the major difference between Hitler and of course the church is technology. Had the chuch had the capability for using bombs, various gas poisons etc, etc, etc, then their murder/kill numbers would have been much higher. However they lacked that type of technology. They probably would have killed off the entire muslim religion if possible, and with that the jews as well.
HA! HA!
Thats what you get for knockin on the Block Captains door at 8am!
... see, Nazi's weren't all bad
What Would Kharn Do?
I dont know how the author came up with that number; I guess he/she is trying to convey the monstrosity of the huge number of people unjustifiably killed in the name of something that deluded men believed in as an excuse to pillage, killing and rape at will.
It would have been a more powerful essay if he/she provide a source.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
The number of 9 million is a gross exaggeration. According to many web sites and books the likely number is from 50,000 to 200,000.
See here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn.htm
You can also just Google The Burning Times yourself.
*Edit* See this link which attempts to understand where the 9 million number came from.
http://www.twpt.com/burning.htm
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
All the numbers I come across is around 1 to 4 million killed depending on what you are counting as the crusades and which ones, total is about 4 million however, there were more killed during the fall of rome from 3rd to the 5th century (about 9 million) and this is more due to christians destroying pagan temples, heretics etc, etc, etc which leds to the Holy Roman Empire, than the crusades, now if you want to get all the religious persecutions throughout the world due to christianity or in wars that christianity/catholic church were involved with or due to religious superstition the number gets high.
Lets see
Witch hunts about 50,000
Spanish Inquisition about 32000
French wars of religion (Catholics church vs protestants) 2 - 4 million
Thirty Year war (began with conflicts between the Protestants and Cathlic Churst) estimated about 7.5 million
Jews being killed as scapegoats for the black plague 8000 to 13000
opposition to the church 2 million saxons and scandanavians
Saracen slaughters in Spain. 7 million
so it just goes on and on,
There were certainly a number of 'regular' Germans killed as well. How many citizens and soldiers were executed for disobeying or refusing the draft? There had to be some at least. More likely many.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Yes,I agree. Here are a few of her sources,O I forgot to mention her name it's Barbara G Walker,she writes in the monthly newspaper,put out by the Freedom From Religion Foundation,the paper is called FreeThought Today. OK back to her sources and there are over 70 of them,here's a few ~ Vicars for Christ:The Dark Side of the Papacy,Treason Against God:A History of the Offense of Blasphemy,Pagans and Christan's,The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets,The Fear of Women,Witchcraft in the Middle Ages,The Inquisition of the Middle Ages,Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology,Man and his Gods,Medieval and Modern Christianity,The Spanish Inquisition,Saharasia,etc.I hope that I can post this one,my computer keeps freezing up,I typed out more in my last reply ,but the computer froze before I could post it.
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Of course there were, however this is more or less those that died in the concentration camps or as prisoners of war. Regular germans would have died as traitors of Germany.
I see an inescapable link between them, since many would have been killed for not participating in the slaughter.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Ken, I don't know if others have brought this up, but could you please start spacing your text correctly? It's difficult to follow your logic when your commas run into your words. You could also use fewer commas and reduce the run-on sentences, but I'm willing to take things one step at a time.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
This is part of the British 'Black Legend'. The British murdered more Roman Catholics than the Muslim Crusades & Spanish Muslim Inquisitions.
This has been one of the most blatant lies contrived by the acts of taqiyya.