shikko wrote:

mobius_thought wrote:

It's really quite simple. There is no such thing as atheism.

Everyone claiming it (including myself, for a time) is, in fact, an antitheist

Just because you disagree does not mean you're right, and just because you don't like a concept does not mean it's wrong. Yes, some people here may in fact be antitheist, but to assert that atheism does not exist is useless.

 

Hey, we can only believe in what we see, right?

Okay, so I can say that I have seen no reason to believe that atheism exists. Six of one, half dozen of the other, take your pick..

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They are not neutral to it, apathetic to it, or anyone else which would allow them to approach it with the same level of compassion, openmindedness, and consideration that they might give other ideas in life.

Category error: one cannot be compassionate or considerate to an idea. Compassion and consideration are reserved for people; ideas do not have feelings which may need to be considered, and are incapable of being in situations which may benefit from compassion. Separating your ego from your arguments will serve you well.

Clearly, the bit about compassion WAS meant in reference to people, but thanks for proving my point FOR me. A respectful conversation includes people giving each other the benefit of the doubt.

Antagonisic people, on the other hand, are going to jump on any little perceived error they can find, including typos, or PERCEIVED typos.

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Openminded does not imply persuadable. We ARE open-minded; it's just that the arguments for religion are invalid, so we do not believe. We will, however, listen to any argument you care to articulate. Don't expect an easy ride, however; taken together, I don't think there are any pro-religion arguments the members of this site have not heard.

Of course, there is a difference. But a person can never learn what they think they already know, and this is why I think the term "open-mindeness" (in context of a lack thereof) is still appropriate. I'm with the prophet Rufus from the movie "Dogma"-

It's better to have ideas than beliefs. Ideas can be changed.

I appreciate the offer, and will keep it in mind, should a situation arise where I don't think I'll be written off immediately just for being a theist. At this point, I don't you all well enough to get too deep into it.

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Can you explain how antagonism invalidates an argument?

It's not that it invalidates it. It simply undermines it. It turns the 'centrists', anyone trying to make UP their mind off to your way of thinking, just the same as the Christian preacher trying to shove HIS beliefs down your throats.

I suppose perhaps it would be to my favor to not speak of such things, but just as the sun has no need to fear a shadow, neither are my beliefs at any risk by people believing otherwise, so I do feel comfortable telling you how you could put a better face on your belief system.

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Ridicule is a great tool for shedding light on bad ideas.

*shrug* I suppose in the absence of the love, it could be seen as such. Why those so angered by the CHURCH'S lack of love, would then spead the same contempt for others, is beyond me, though.

I share that contempt for so many horrible things done in the name of religion (mostly in the name of the Catholic church). But what *I* do with that is internalize it, and try to show a greater sense of tolerance than what those people shown.

That tolerance may be here for some, but it certainly isn't universal. I have no doubt that if the most extremist intolerant of atheists were to somehow take power over the world, or the country, they would begin the same awful persecutions OF religious people that have formerly (and currently, for that matter) done BY religious people.