Atheist just as bad as Christians!
Offline Its funny how hypocritical you guys are, you say Christians are like terrorist, putting the fear of hell in people to make them believe in a God that doesn't exist. While you do the same thing by putting the fear of no God into people, no hope for any afterlife, no hope of moral bliss, no hope of a better place after death, just nothingness. All the pain and hurt you went through in life for no reason at all. All the time you spent on earth, just to die.
Atheist spend all their time in their empty lifestyle of work and partying, drugs and sex, book writing, web-site making, rational responding, etc.. A materialistic endeavor, a futile campaign of work and play, an endless drought of high life or low, ridding the world of people awaiting a blessed hope, who die trying to encourage others that there is something better after this terrible place. The whole of population is already in agreement with you guys, maybe not as irrational as making the absurd statement, that lacks absolute surety that there is "No God." What is your motive? The world would be a better place if all 6 billion people didn't believe in anything at all? If people just went on in emptiness the world would be a better place? This is what you preach? And you say Christians are bad. WOW!! Anyone with a brain can see that this way of thinking has lead to another pointless act, in the name of the GREATER GOOD, yeah.... I mean, what's the point?
If we are just some anonymous creatures, with empty task, why don't you just blast yourself now? You wanna enjoy your life, the way you want to right? Having a job, having no job, this is what brings you joy? A house, a girlfriend/wife, a car and a family, so much happiness? None of these things mean anything at all, and i'm sorry if you find joy in such stupidity, i really am sorry, and pity you. Its funny, such an empty lifestyle, vanity. I guess this is the reason why so many people support abortion, "why not spare the little lad of such emptiness, I wanna continue in my nothingness without interruption. I cant live the way I want to with a baby, I'll abort him/her, in THE NAME OF FREEDOM!! No freedom for you my son/daughter, I must continue to rid the world of Christians, you'll only get in my way. I have the privilege of nothing, and i'm going to spare you that privilege." You go through life in search of nothing, always learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. Teaching people to partake in your infidelity, and condemning others who don't support such a lame cause.
Well did not God tell us about you in the book of Romans, you have 14 versus dedicated to you. Romans 1:18-32 especially 32. And i'm not going into a bible debate with anybody, unless compelled(if such a person is on the brink of some type of wisdom), just know this, God from the foundation of the world has elected people unto salvation, so Brian is right about something finally, He elected the nation of Israel, and they cleaned house, mass genocide all over the earth, by His command, man, woman and child, there evilness deserving of death. He chose one nation to be merciful to, and even they were just as disobedient as the pagan ones, and its clearly illustrated in the judgment they are under now. And please spare me on the innocence of children lecture, when you support abortion, fools and blind!!
No man comes to God, unless the Father draws Him, so stop wasting your time, searching the bible, you cant understand it unless you are Gods elect, unless God elected you unto salvation before the foundation of the world, unless He regenerates you out of your self-flesh pleasing selves, you will remain in the debased state you are in, and die in it as well. And continue to curse and blaspheme, Psalms 76:10 says your wrath praises Him, all the time you shake the fist at Him, and curse His name, all the more praises Him, how He is sovereign over His creatures, and there's nothing you can do about.
So, why don't you go run a campaign on other persons putting the fear in individuals, not just Theist, what about police, who use scare tactics like the speed limit to stop people from reckless driving, or the camera's at stop lights that evoke the fear of a fine, if ran. Or maybe insurance companies who put the fear in you and compel you to more coverage, you never know, a tornado could hit your house and car, you could've saved %15 percent or more if you would've switched, thatss all-states stand! Or maybe your country, who IS NOT in Iraq for the sake of Christianity, we are just like any other great ruler in times past, trying to gain control over everything. How about Alexander the Great, Pharraoh and the Egyptians, or the Roman Empire, whose motivation was not gods, but to serve there own flesh in trying to take over the world. Since there is NO GOD, these men did these things because they were self pleasing, so now we know what atheist do in absence of any divine Being, (Brain animated voice) TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!
Your claim is that there is NO GOD, so since there is NO GOD, we as humans, have been acting out of our own self conscious efforts, the outward confessions made by people meant nothing, in actuality they were doing it all for themselves or their nation. So your claims of atheism is the cure are inane, since we are all actually atheist, the world and its results are caused by atheism.
Oh yeah, and if your not Gods elect, No, your not going to become a Christian on your death bed, as you think some people do, it doesn't work that way, No, everyone cannot gain repentance, Hitler, Stalin, whoever, I don't care if they claimed to be Christians, they are not in heaven, trust and believe. Repentance has to be granted to you (2 Timothy 2:25). No, everyone claiming to be a Christian is not a Christian, No, almost the whole of Americans are no where near God, No you cant do what you want in Christianity and ask for forgiveness, stop trying to read the scriptures, if you can interpret it correctly, Jesus is not teaching that as a Christian you do anything you want and ask forgiveness, Paul expounded on Jesus teaching in Romans 6, and also a word of condemnation for such people thinking they can continue in their evil deeds, and still think they are Christians, and accuse the bible of encouraging such (Romans 3:
. Saying there is no God is not the unpardonable sin, on the contrary, your title is given in Psalms 14:1.
Don't believe in God? I can't fix that.
Reformed Theology Resource: www.monergism.com
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Your definition of prophecy is pretty lame. Here I'm gonna make a prophecy. And so it was that daretoknow spoke to the congregation of the Rationalites, and spokest him of dark times to come. So spaketh him "And they shall persecute thine minds with annoying ass lamentations and thine science with retribution. They shall prove you right by disagreeing with you." You see Beatz you are doing all us rationalites a great service. The more christlike that you are, the more it proves to us how reviling and morally vacuous the bible is. Plus we are obviously right because you disagree with us.
P.S. I am not mad at you ya poor little victim. I just used your logic to form this argument.
Thats cute.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah.......Ok Charly Brown's teacher.
Wha wha wha wha wha when you pick on Jesus
Wha wha wha wha wha when you pick on Allah
Wha wha wha wha wha wen you pick on Yahwey
Spare me your underwhelming marter complex. It is not monopolized by Christians.
It might suprise you moron, but when atheists cry persicution and demand politicall corectness, I think they are just as full of shit as you are. Insted of crying over it and demanding a goverment nipple to protect you from being offended, ask them why they say such things, then show them their error through logic and reason."Blasphemy laws are the first sign of tyrany" Lord Akton(sp)
Let me tell you a story about my childhood. I got picked on to no end about my first two initials in my name and even throughout highschool I got beat up over having B, J. for my first two initials. I used to take that personally. I dont anymore. If someone doesnt like me for who I am, FUCK THEM.
My closest friends are not offended by bluntness
So does that make me "Christ like" because I no longer give a shit, like I used to, about what people think of me?
You demonized atheists in your OP. I dont give a shit, you can say what you want about me. What you cant do is own me or preach to me. If you have any semblance of a disire to debate and use reason, that is a different story.
What pissed me off, is not that you believe in a deity. What pissed me off is that you came here and gave us the middle finger in your OP falsely thinking you were trying to help us.
It might have been better for you to say something like, "Hi, my name is Beatz, I do believe, and here is the evidence for why I believe"
You are not in a church you are posting at an atheist website, what did you expect?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I know this was adressed already, but I can't believe how insulting this is to me. Money, violence, rock and sex, right? I rarely spend money, and when I do, it is on music CDs. I can't hurt a spider. I don't hit people... I love rock, but that doesn't mean I drink beer - I never got drunk once in my life because I don't identify myself to the life of party. I'm still a virgin at 18 years old because I'm a confused bisexual who finds sex gross. Now I don't see what makes me different from a christian except maybe that last part. Are all atheists like me? Of course not.
Now I wish I had a point but I don't know what yours was.
Didnt you in another post say that I was doomed? Which is it? Or maybe it is that you, and not a fictional sky daddy, "doom" me, because I dont buy your claim?
Exlent tactic used by all facists, be they Stalin or Dark Ages Christians, or Osama Bin Ladin, "You're either for us, or against us". Your god character was invented by tribalistic people who depended on the "club" to survive, and those who held the ability to market, became the alpa male of the club, and any one who challenged "the club" was the enemy. Anyone, according to you, who challenges the existance of your Jesus, is the enemy.
You never consider that I am NOT your enemy, but that I am trying to get you to think outside your ancient myth and free you from the superstition you have been falsely sold.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Brian37 wrote:
Take the next step and stop preaching and present your case without regurgitating the bible. Formulate your own thoughts without a hand up your back.
My $0.02: Why Brian...I had no idea that you were such an optimist.
Conor
____________________________________________________________________________________
"Faith does not fear reason."--Pope Pius XII
"But it should!"--Me
What's up milkshake, I dont know if you saw the post before I posted that one, but I was actually addressing someone who had just made some crazy comments about lighting up some drugs, and killing some folks, I was just telling him to do his thing. I did make plenty of comments about empty lifestyles that I still hold to, not to be rude, but even buying cd's. Dont feel bad about your little issue, everyone has issue's. I've known women who thought sex was gross. I do have good news though, Christ died for sinners.
Don't believe in God? I can't fix that.
Reformed Theology Resource: www.monergism.com
You are mistaken. Living without music IS an empty lifestyle.
A three day timeout doesn't count as "dying." It's more like "cheating." If you're all powerful, torture doesn't hurt. If you're coming back anyway, you didn't die. Also, who are you trying to impress.... yourself?
No Brian37, I didn't say you were doomed, I was addressing some guy named "Doomed," check the post, he's the guy with the cartoon picture of a transformer or something. Funny you should bring that up, God says He's created the wicked for a day of doom.
But you listen hear you little infidel you. My OP still stands, i haven't reverted, retracted, or subtracted, on anything I've said, yeah I came in saying you were satanic, and i'm still saying the same thing, I didn't come here to be nice to you, I came to tell the truth. Yeah, I watched and read plenty of things by you guys before I decided to post, you hypocrites, that was the main point of my OP, your a hypocrite with your strawman arguments about Christianity, then when someone comes in with their apologetics you wanna flip the coin. So yeah, I strawman, just as much as you all. "You can do anything you want to in Christianity and just get away with it."-Strawman
Im not looking for any pity from you, but I pity you much, but dont come on here talking about what you've been through, thats one thing I wont let you get away with, everyone on this forum has been through a lot, almost near death experiences. I've been attacked by people for spreading the gospel since I was 16, including hospitalizations, burn unit, dont even wanna go into detail, my parents taught me practically nothing about God, and life, as a result I grew up believing heresies, tithing my money to pastors that had nothing to worry about, while I starve with no food, being taught that Jesus loves everyone and He's trying to save people but they just wont come, the devils too strong (YEAH RIGHT!!). I'm watching my friends die at age 23 from heart attacks, being shot and killed. I've been shot at, at point blank range, and the bullets not hit me, but bullets holes everywhere else, on the car, on the house we ran into, but for some reason, the guy not even 5 feets away, pointing the gun right at me and shooting, the bullets just fell to the ground. I lived in Maryland on 9/11, when the planes hit the pentagon, and the twin towers, my friends parents died. My wifes parents were dead before she turned 12, I work a low income job and I have a wife and son to take care of in LA, 2nd highest cost of living. I even heard sapient say that he had children to take care of with little income. Speaking of income, my parents taught me squat about credit, so as a result, well you know the results, i'm 23, and I can write a book, and i garauntee 100 others on this web-site can do the same, Theist and Atheist, so CAN it about the beat downs that everyone here has experienced since childhood. I have the biggest nose in the world according to everyone from kindergarden to Junior high, I never heard the end of it. SO WHAT!!
I come from a culture thats so materialistic, ignorant, and just plain ol' stupid that its sickning that I have to identify with such a crowd. You come ask a black man here in LA what pascals wager is, they'll probably think its just another way to make money. To make it worse, this is one of the most racist countrys on the planet, dont believe me, jump on xbox live and count how many times you hear the word "nig-ger" a night!!
So ramp and rave on about your problems, they'll just remain there, or you can give it to Christ, and find true peace. Come unto Me, all ye, that have labored and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. - Jesus.
I didn't retract anything I said before, and it all still stands as I said it. I'm not asking for your charity, or sympathy, I didnt come here to help anybody, I cant help you, only God can, now if you need a few bucks for something to eat, i might can help you in that aspect, but in terms of life and death, spiritual matters, i'll always assume a secondary cause.
Don't believe in God? I can't fix that.
Reformed Theology Resource: www.monergism.com
BMcD. Dude, you just remove satan out of the whole equation, but that cool. Listen, God ordained it, Adam did it. You can talk till you turn blue in the face. Adam commited the crime, we are doing the time. God did not reveal it to Adam, if that were the case, Adam would still be innosent. God tested His creature and it failed, and as a result, we are all born failures, if you cant see that in the world today thats just sad. No matter how much you fight, YOU threw the rock, because God permitted it, doesn't make Him responsible for your actions.
Don't believe in God? I can't fix that.
Reformed Theology Resource: www.monergism.com
This satanic? (From LaVeyan Satanism)
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
Rule #9 alone makes that group more moral than Catholics.
that was just cold stuntgibbon.
that last statement about catholics was below the belt..*sarcasm*"I didn't come here to be nice to you, I came to tell the truth." - Beatz
Golden rule right back at you.
Also, I don't give a shit if I'm offending an organization that consistently abuses children and covers it up. Even the members who weren't directly involved. Knowing that and continuing to donate money to the church just makes them accomplices to the crimes.
*GASP* You... you called Richard... a Transformer? >.<
I see we have alot of work to do with you... >.>
I think im starting to like this "God" fellow
Truth is... I'm the only Satanic one here >.>
Jeepers, my Bullshit senses are tingling. I thought lie'ing was a sin?
Come to the Dark Side... we have Cookies ^_^
What Would Kharn Do?
below the belt huh? is it just me or is that statement ironic as hell given its context?
anyway, Beatz; you might want to stop saying that jesus died for our suns. we already know your position on the matter so repeating it just becomes irritating. also consider this: if someone were to come up to you and tell you that you will go to hell (or a place of great suffering for eternity) if you don't believe in Thor, Odin, Vishnu or Krishna, would you be at all frightened about the prospect of reaping the penalty for not following their religion? I'll take a guess and say no, it doesn't bother you. so why would it bother the atheists here if they are threatened with hellfire?
When god gives you lemons you FIND A NEW GOD 1 Thessalonians 5:21
<My art> <not my art><MS>
Hehe ya... respawns are for pussies, real men wait till the next round ^_^
What Would Kharn Do?
Ok I am just getting off a 14 hour shift, so I am a wee bit behind, but not that behind....you asked me a question, actually 3 questions about the bible, I answered them and explained them, just like you asked me to do, now lets get something else straight, you may believe in the bible all you want....but you sure as hell don't understand it one bit, so excuse me if I have to educate you on your own damn bible. As well, your whole part about the case for adam, out the door, evolution actually does dispell the entire case for the first human created by god being able to speak, and know god etc, etc, etc. There is far more evidence for evolution and the explanation that scientists give than there is for adam....actually there is no evidence for adam at all, however if you have some evidence outside of the bible, I would gladly look at it, and hell even bring it to a few other biologist if you like, hell there are biologists here on this forum that would love to look at your evidence for adam. You can ask some of the other people for this if you like, I am far to tired to bother with this for you, your lack of education is not my problem really.
Now please just because your ignorant about your bible, doesn't mean the rest of us are, and just because you believe in it, doesn't mean atheists can't study it, see many of us, aren't stupid ignorant people that don't believe because we never bothered with the bible or any other holy book, many of us studied it yet never believed in it (like myself and various others) or believed in it and studied it (like watcher and various others as well). So there you have it, either your here to debate, or your here to be a jerk off, either way I will respond accordingly, and if you don't like that fact that I know the bible and can explain it better than you, to fucking bad.
I second that latincanuck
and will take it a little further ....
Jesus was an early atheist and so then murdered ....
this message is not aHyperbole
but I could be wrong ? nah , not
Atheism Books.
No, you came to spread your delusion. Get it through skull dippy, your god is NOT REAL! this has to be in the history of all theists who have posted here, one of the top 10 most pathetic attempts at apologetics I have seen.
If you cant help me, then WTF are you doing here? Is your alleged God that pathetic he cant do his own dirty work? Your words defy you because if you actually believed in this claimed being you wouldnt be preaching because you'd know that(your alleged god) God could do it himself.
Keep wallowing in your fantacy, and if you are offering me a buck, I'll take it to buy you a streight jacket, you need it.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
People like Wave and Pinnaple have come to understand more about atheists without predudice, even if they still hold some sort of "beyond" idea. In that sense I am an optimist that a better understanding can happen without the bigotry and hate.
There are tons of deulsional people, and I wont deluded myself in thinking we can offer all of them reason and they will all come around. Beatzs is deeply indoctrinated, much like the nuts who followed Calvin in the opressive European theocracies of his day.
With Beatzs, it's more like the enjoyment of having a chewtoy.
There is always hope for more and more people to come around to reason and give up on fictitious superstition. But there also will always be nuts like Beatz too.
I'm not holding out much hope for him considering what I have seen so far. I do hope I am wrong and someone, even if not me, can put a crack in his dense delusion.
Its always nice to see the lightbulb go on when a theist finally gets it.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Awwwww, that's so sweet of you. Does this mean you won't chew on me anymore? And it was so invigorating too
My Artwork
actually stuntgibbon, I found your comment humorous, so I added the sarcasm note so you would know I totally agree with what you said about catholism. 'thats cold' is just slang.
Don't believe in God? I can't fix that.
Reformed Theology Resource: www.monergism.com
And this is why I support the Rational Response Squad. We are trying to save future generations from the hell of being brainwashed. I am hoping to see the birth of organizations for helping those already wounded. The right organization would have my undying loyalty, as does the Rational Response Squad.
Books on atheism, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server.
arkanrais, your very mistaken. not one did I never tell anyone one this site that Christ died for THEIR sins. I said Christ died for sinners, atheist don't believe in sin so Christ must not have died for you, He died for sinners, that's a general statement only effective upon whom relative.
Don't believe in God? I can't fix that.
Reformed Theology Resource: www.monergism.com
Christ died for sinners - yippee.
Shame it doesn't mean anything to the atheist, the Calvinist, the sinner, or any other Christian.
Here's why:
1. Atheists aren't bogged down by the sin paranoia.
2. Your theology states that it's immaterial what deeds we do in this life. God has already decided who goes to heaven or hell.
3. Paul got rid of sin for the other forms of Christianity when he said that the law no longer applies to the believer. "Where there is no law, there is no transgression"
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I don't see how Satan figures into the equation to begin with.
1)"Satan" doesn't appear in the garden of Eden. "The serpent" does, and it's only inference by later theologians that this serpent is Satan.
2)Nothing in the Bible claims Satan is not acting in accordance with the Divine Will. He takes the role of the prosecuting attorney, not the saboteur. He tests Job. He tests Christ. He makes the virtuous prove themselves.
3)In accordance with the doctrine of predestination, Satan can oppose the will of God no more than we can... and that leads into the other part that you seem so willing to ignore:
According to your doctrine of predestination, God did not 'permit' the act. Permitting the act would be allowing for some other choice. There was no test.
Adam could not pass the test because God decided he would not. This would be like me throwing you off a building and claiming you 'failed' the test of whether or not you could fly. If our actions are all set in stone since before the creation of the universe by God then no, we are not responsible for them, because we are not choosing to do it.
Part of what makes someone liable for their actions is that they choose to commit them. If there is no choice involved, there is no liability. Every criminal and civil case hinges on that issue: that at some point, a decision was made.
Your doctrine of predestination removes that. There is no choice, because these things were set in stone and ordained by God.
It's important to note the difference between Predestination and Foreknowledge by Omniscience. Simply saying 'God knows how it's all going to go down' implies that God knows what we will choose, and plans accordingly, but allows us to choose. Predestination, in contrast, explicitly says that God ordained all our actions. That God said "On Feb. 1, 2008, BMcD will write these words" and at that point, I have no power to choose not to write them. And if I cannot choose not to do something, then I am not responsible for doing it, any more than I am 'responsible' for falling if I'm pushed out of a plane. The responsible party, the only responsible party, is the one that makes the decision for events to occur.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
Richard kicks so much ass.
I'm actually wearing that shirt right now...
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
Latincanuck, if what you said makes sense to you, and anyone else, then ok. You are depraved, and your mind is immensely debased.
Evolution actually does dispell the entire case for the first human created by god being able to speak, and know god etc, etc, etc. - Latincanuck. And your smart? Your a walking misnomer! Scientist sitting around a table,"how could God create such an organism? and it knew how to speak when He finished? Impossible!!! The human has to start off as a baby and learn things first!"
We believe God to be a Divine Being, who does Supernatural things, however you wanna put it, I think the word Atheist use now a days is magic, poof!!, there it is. But we use miracles and wonders in the believers circle. Well you guys dont call it magic, you call it evolution, such a resounding word, but 'evolution' as to 'magic' is just as synonomous. Over billions of years, it all just happen, well thats magic as well. I guess the universe decided to retire after the planet earth, "we're not produces any more of these!!" Not enough oxygen to go around I guess.
God is infinite, we are finite. We believe God does things man cannot do, impossible acts man is insufficient to understand.
I asked you to interpret some scripture, and you interpreted incredibly wrong. First, you need to understand your reading a translation, not original documents. I am not making the claim that there are no errors in the king james bible, anyone making that claim can be easily overrun.
During the translation process, words and meanings are lost, as well as etymology incorporated. For example, the greek word, moikeia(moy-kay-ah), has no english equivalent, but it has a similar reference in Latin, and in Latin, it has something similar to english, so there you have it, the meaning is almost totally lost during the translation. We all know that from one ancient language to another modern venacular with complete perfection is not possible. So your reading a book, that humans are doing their best to translate better and better over time. God has given us, even the most feeble minded child enough, to get the concept.
When we speak of the inerrancy of scripture, we are speaking of the original text, which are not around, all we have is copies of the originals, you know this already. Our oldest documents date around the first or second century, that being some dead sea scrolls.
We believers in God, dont believe that God is another person just like us, we dont believe He communicates with angels, or like spirits, the same way humans communicate with each other. You and I speaking to each other is far too slow, and far too flawed. We believe that He made man, and made man with abilities sufficient to interact with other human beings, hey even some animals understand us. Dont get me wrong, God can communicate anyway He wants, and we believe He has communicated to us through the Bible, creation, and through His Son.
Now, if you dont have this perspective of God, or dont believe in a God whatsoever, you'll miss the whole thing when trying to read the bible. So you telling me what you know about the bible doesnt mean anything to me, if you dont believe its true, and if you dont believe its Gods word, in return your like, looking at Egyptian Hieroglyphics, then communicating Arabic.
First, the bible is a translation, we already went over that. Second, it is full of anthropomorphisms. What that means is, some things you read in the bible dont make since, How could it repent(have a change of mind) the LORD for making man(Gen 6:6)? The answer is, it wouldn't, an all knowing being wouldn't have a change of mind, that's a finite attribute. We believe the bible is expressing this in human terms. Let alone you turn over to Numbers 23:19, it says God is not a man that He should lie, Nor the son of man, that He should repent. Well, that looks to me like a contradiction. Well, its not, the KJV, has some very bad errors, and mistranslations, to the point where it was revised numerous times, and most likely your using the 17 century edition. Not to mention its a translation based on the Textus Receptus, which is some of the worse manuscripts we have to date. Newer bibles, using the majority of the manuscripts are now produced, some 20,000 manuscripts represent the majority.
Do you see where i'm getting at? Your talking writings that have been passed down from 1600 BC, to 2008 AD. There have been plenty of advances in the engilsh language alone in the past 2 centeries, I can only imagine how much of every other language has changed over time.
Anyway, so if you cant digest all of that, you cant understand the bible for what its worth. You making the comment that evolution refutes the possibilities of God making a man able to speak and communicate sounds just as dumb as a human saying its impossible for a man to make a computer with knowledge, memory, tons of information, and capability of learning more already installed in its database.
So the issue with Atheist, is that they wanna see God, touch and smell Him, well, your gonna have to wait in line, the Chritians wanna do the same. Just as it boggles your mind how dumb a Christian can be for believing in a God, and Jesus, it boggles our mind also, when people come up with the most ridiculous explanations instead of just saying HIGHER POWER did it all. So if Pineapple and Wave are just now starting to understand you better, thats pretty sad, when they already had a bible that told them everything about you.
You say we are fools, the bible says your a fool, and you'll get worse over time. We know we are fools, fools for Christ. You guys are not the first atheist, you've been around since the beginning, just haven't had any impact on society. Chritians have been around for 1900 years or so, and we've had a tremendous one, starting with One Man, and now look. I mean, whats taking so long to get your business off the ground? King David back in what? 800BC said there were people around then, saying there is no God. So you guys had almost a thousand year jump on the Christians. Whats up with that? Oh I know, the universe is only able to produce a couple at a time huh?
No evidence for Adam? Something outside the bible you will gladly look at... Let me think... Ah! Why dont you look in a mirror! Adam - It is of Hebrew origin, and its meaning is "earth". From "adama". In Hebrew, it is a generic term for "man". See, the word Adam is put in, just so you can have a slight understanding.
Don't believe in God? I can't fix that.
Reformed Theology Resource: www.monergism.com
Given so many claims in the bible about the world have turned out to be untrue or grossly off target, how can anyone be certain that book is what it says it is?
(hint: they can't)
You know, someone should put together a step-by-step analysis of the stages of preachiness some of these guys go through.
Like, they start off trying to sound reasonable and welcoming, like 'hey, you all are well-meaning, but wrong' and devolve so quickly into 'WELL UR JUST DUMB! TEH BIBUL SEZ SO!'.
Then we could just ask them to look at the list and post 'Stage 2, with onions and pickles' and we could respond to the boilerplate Stage 2 position.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
If your theology is true, why are you wasting your time here?
God has predestined us for heaven or hell - nothing we (or you) do will change that.
So you must be here to gloat - bad taste, that.
Although I did get a good laugh out of how poorly you think we interpret scripture (because we don't interpret it your way).
The way you stretched out the definition of "adam" to fit what you want was pretty funny also.
And that thing about the incredible (and I guess you believe positive) impact Christianity has had on the world - priceless. My side still hurts from laughing so hard.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
My pleasure my delusional friend.
I useually charge 50 bucks an hour.
I'm glad you understand me. I might merely think you are full of it, but I have no disire to rape or pillage, dispite what nuts like Beatz have been indoctrinated with.
And dont worry, I'm not done chewing on you. It's can get boring preaching to the chior, I like the (verbal boxing ring) much more.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Well, looky here, I'm gone a couple of days and this post blows over with double the responses.
That's right, in taking the brutality, the insensitivity, the bigotry, the supernatural, the willing ignorance, in one word, the bull out of the bible/coran/etc, we atheists are trying to make this a better world and to be more Christlike, the probervial atheist. A cool dude, really, when he was not having bad LSD trips.
Emmm, thanks, I guess...
But note that, even if you're not trying to be rude (and I seriously doubt that, coming to a forum of this nature and telling us we're a bunch of preordainly worthless POS (Piece Of Sinners) and therefore we should just bend over (or was it bow down?, oh well, potato, potato)) to the guy who pre-ordain us so is as rude as you can get without actually using coarse language. But ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and try to converse here.
You spoke of pride earlier, did you not? well, it strikes me as funny, since, from what I can derive from this last statement, is that we unbelievers have nothing to teach you about the bible, not because you know it perfectly (something I am yet to see evidence of) but because we don't see it as 100% truth. To put it simply: "if you don't buy it, then you don't get it".
Also note that,*believing* in something doesn't necesarily equals *understanding* it, doesn't even means knowing it; many theists (of all flavors) *believe* in their respective dogmas without actually having read/researched/asked a thing about it, they just take it from whoever told them (usually their parents) and go on about their merry, unquestioned existance. This, above all, strikes me as the ultimate paradox of faith: It grants considerable strenght at the price of accepting a most cripling weakness: to unconditionaly surrender to it.
"Free will" is an oxymoron. Our will is and it'll ever be subjected to external and internal forces. We are as excent from cause and effect in our choices as we are excent from gravity. Heritage, both cultural and natural, nurture, social interaction, enviromental influences, and a BIG etc. impose their own infliences in our actions and choices. I won't go in the lenghts of deepening the point, since it's not the point here, just wanted to point out the imposibility of a will truly "free".
"God's secret will", now this is REALLY SCARY. Honestly, are you serious? By quoting and endorsing what you "bro" says here, you're telling us you worship this monumental con man? Let's see the logic here:
-God preordained the creation of all, including men.
-God's "secret will" is for sin to enter the world *through his creation*, he himself must not have any hand in it.
-God grants EVERY means for this to happend (The tree, the serpent, the imperfect nature of man, which can be tempted) but at the same time tells his creation his "revealed will": do not put your hand in my cookie jar.
-The snake (God's creation) lures them humanfolk to go to the cookie jar.
-Humans, in their imperfect nature (God-made) are tempted and reached for the cookie jar, complying with God's secret will but at the same time disobeying God's revealed will (Uh?) thus bringing sin to the world.
-God's angry (even if he knew and WANTED this to be so) and henceforth send all humans to the corner, even if they themselves have never had a cookie, only to be arbitrarily granted pardons...
The above is nothing more than the logic of the schizophrenic. That "manifold wisdom of God" could very easily be called for what it really is: insanity. Or a really bad planned hustle, since a simple read-through of your bro's statement is enough to see the gaps in it. God pretty much wanted to burn up his Eden Co. in order to cash in the insurance. So he *casualy* hires a known pyromaniac and, *casualy*, leaves a gasoline tank near his desk, a shiny box full of matches, and then turns on the CD player playing over and over "Light my Fire" by the Doors. Casualy, my ass.
This pretty much means God is a first class A-hole. Not only did he preordained our fall (and did everything to put it into motion except force-feeding Adam and Eve the damned apple), he created us for the very purpose of doing so! Now I'm not really a fan of the idea of humankind's importance or relevance in and for this world, but this is sickening. This renders us to the level of puppets dancing around in God's little gag-show, where he's the only one acting, since it is His hands that's far up our asses, controlling our every move, and he's the only one enjoying it. And the real gag here is you, telling us you actually worship this guy?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't Nietzsche who said God created the universe as an act of desperation, since he himself could not stand himself, and thus had to divert his attention from himself, into what in practice is a show for the macabre: us? (If you could correct me here, and/or cite the source of this I would be really grateful). If he did, he has once again nailed the nature of god: One gigantic, sadistic, mentally disturbed psychopath, who should, fot the sake of all, including himself, be put to sleep.
The ultimate paradox of faith: It grants considerable strenght at the price of accepting the most cripling weakness: unconditional surrender.
Lenore, The Cute Little Dead Girl. Twice as good as Jesus.
WOW, thanks for that albedo_00 , yeah "give this guy a cigar"
hey Beatz what are your thoughts about this essay ? I just posted this elsewhere ---
Hear ye ALL .... Please read this telling essay
I am a poor communicator, but this will help.
About 2/3 down you will find Buddha. Mabey Rook has ideas about this .....
"The Gnostic Gospels" [ and Buddha ]
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/pagels.html
The entire site is imformative of many historians view points , get your "Jesus/Buddha" on !
((( "I am God/Jesus as you" )))
"Orthodox Jews and Christians insist that a chasm separates humanity from Its creator: God is wholly other. But some of the gnostics who wrote these gospels contradict this: self-knowledge is knowledge of God; the self and the divine are identical." ~
ALL IS ONE , is it not ? poor poor xains ....Atheism Books.
No no, you're missing the real damning piece: It's not foreknowledge, it's predestination. God did force-feed Adam and Eve the apple, because they had no capacity to not Fall. They were hardwired to fail that 'test', just like if you program a computer to be a good and faithful calculator, never delivering a wrong answer... unless someone asks "2(2+2)^2 = ?", in which case the machine MUST return an answer of 'Fuck you, God!'.
No different. God didn't just rig the game, he wrote the whole thing as a narrative account, with his hands very much up the asses of everyone involved.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
I started reading this post on my first break at work, and I thought to myself... "This guy has to be a fake. This is probably just someone else who is bored at work and wants to make up the most insane, delusional, and stubborn character they could to stir up some Atheists to debate for a little fun".
I enjoyed the back and forth through my lunch. Admiring the thought and intelligence some of these people show in their counter-points to the OP. I can respect the amount of research some of the commentors put in to their replies. The complete nonsense Beatz kept trying to use as some sort of defense to his argument honestly made me laugh-out-loud (getting a few raised eyebrows from my rowmates).
But now things are really becoming frightening. Not the fact that I might be smote by JCs big daddy, but the fact that this guy honestly believes this stuff. And I can't help but think how dangerous someone like this can be. I mean, this is the kind of person who would run you off the road because he saw an Evolve emblem on your car, and then say it was God's Will! I would be afraid for my safety if I was wearing RRS (or any other non-thiest) apparel around this guy. The paint job on my car could possibly be damaged by the hot oil he would throw at me through the drive-thru window if he saw me wearing it as I pull up to pay.
This is terrorism, and Beatz is the terrorist. This is why religion needs to be removed from peoples lives.
That's Calvinism for you. It was really big about 200 years ago.
This post is getting boring, i'm starting a new one.
Please let it contain no preaching. PUTTY PWEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP. I promise to cut down from 20 barbaqued kittens a day down to 10 if you do.....Pwease.......putty pwease?
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
so what's worse? being fully aware of the reality of our short, random, and ultimately insignifigant time here on earth and taking responsibility for your own happiness and sense of purpose and striving to make this world better for yourself and others?
or foolishly believing that there's a magical reward waiting for you in the grave and wasting your few precious living years praying to nothingness and worshiping a fairy tale in anticipation of an eternal bliss that only exists in your imagination?
work? yes, in the health care industry. meaningful, helpful to others. it's very fullfilling and enjoyable to be a part of something so important.
partying? no, i started and finished that phase in my early twenties like any intelligent person. more meaningfull things to do, now.
drugs? no, just like partying, over and done with long ago, and i never messed with anything synthetic(crack, meth, heroin, pills, etc) or dangerous. just harmless, fun experimentation with the classics.
sex? well, duh, of course yes. lots and lots of wonderfull, fun, dirty monogomous sex with my gorgeous wife.
book writing? uh, no. lots of book reading, though. it's good for you, you should try it.
you also left out video games, movies, exercising, gardening, spending lots of time with my kids playing, learning, loving, growing, writing music, creating artwork, being involved in local and national politics, interacting with our many pets, and loving life in general.
i know, it's crazy that an atheist family can do so much and be so happy and fullfilled. all this and yet no fear of judgement, damnation, etc. and no concern about death and the afterlife.
gee, maybe it's because we're too busy making the most of the real life that we're living right now??
www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens
Hahahah...the most entertaining topic in this week. Beatz you are so scary.
You probably made all mistakes you could: ignorance, arrogance, intolerance, lack of basic historical knowledge and logic. I so surprised that such amount of hate,brainwashing and ignorance can live that I even give up to correct your mistakes. Go and preach a little for my sinful soul.
Ecrasez l'infame!
I don't get this guy, he asks me to explain to him parts of the bible that he believes in, then says I am depraved and debased beacuse I understand it better than him and can explain it better than him and also tells me not to explain the bible to him because he's the one that believes and not me......seriously this guy is not here to debate, only to preach and act like a child.
And since most of the posts in this string, generated by a single party, are yours whose fault is it? But before you leave I'd like to say thanks - for a couple of reasons. One; like a previous recent poster I started reading you at work. I had a fun but unproductive morning that I'll have to make up for (my fault - not yours). The other is for illustrating a point I had made to another mystic. He had somehow formed the opinion that all 2.1 billion christians in the world would be included in the rapture. I thought he was being overly inclusive and you illustrated my point for me. How nice of you.
So, Beatz - himself - raw, how many members share your particular congregation? And are they as worthy of salvation as you obviously are or will some of them, in your estimation be left behind? Are you part of a larger sect and will all of them be worthy? If you had to guess, how many devout bretheren will be worthy? I'm just curious about the size of the skyward exedus. Will it be large enough to affect realestate prices, do you think? And to think, I called the afore mentioned mystic smug. For that I have to appologize - to him.
I do have a bone to pick. Being a writer I'm not quite sure how I garnered your disdain. I can see how that disdain spreads to other writers. I feel I should let you know that when you cut and paste and post without the proper attribution that's plagerism. When you do that sort of thing and don't want to get caught, then you should probably steal work of quality more closely compatible with your own lack of style. And you might want to mentally work through that disdain can lead you to theft thing. Better yet just take to your pastor/father/shaman he'll take you through it and you won't have to be bothered with any of that pesky thinking.
About halfway through this string of posts (I admit I'm slower than others around here) I realized that you are a chauvinist. Are you aware of the word's historical origins? Don't bother to look it up. Just take it to your preacher too. He can explain the word to you after he has explained plagerism. He'll probably be happy to. He's probably sick of you too.
What's up chainsaw. Just wanted to answer your questions.
First, me, you and everyone else are not worthy of anything, hence the term unconditional election, it means that there is no forseen merit in the individual elected unto salvation. So, I, like you and everybody else deserve hell.
um, I have sin, i'm not perfect like the atheist who doesn't believe in sin. if you saw chauvanism, ok, i'll pray the Lord help me work on it.
Historical Orgins, secular perspective on Christianity? I dont know if that's what your asking.
The rapture, haven't really taken a firm stand on that yet, i'm studying now, and asking the Holy Spirit to guide me in truth on that aspect of Christianity. As of now, i'm leaning towards a rapture, i'll update you.
As for how many people were elected unto salvation, couldn't tell you. 2 billion other professing christians, I dont know. Most of it is just outward confessions, no change of lifestyle = false conversion.
Apologies for the plagerism, you remind me of how strict my college professors were about siting. I just put the name, didn't know I would be graded, dont call the cops.
And, my OP still stands, I haven't changed any of my views. You still have an empty lifestyle, with nothing to look forward to, i'm sorry these materials bring you joy.
I'm just stating what the bible teaches, so if your wondering why I got bored, I dont know how many times you want me to repeat the same thing over and over, then you curse God, then me, then I say, this is what the bible teaches, then you curse God, then me....
Latin, since you know more then me. James 4:17.
Don't believe in God? I can't fix that.
Reformed Theology Resource: www.monergism.com
Will you please make up your mind. In this thread you say we all diserve hell. Mind you, I am only adressing the peramiters you are claiming, they contradict each other.
You said that we are puppets and our fates have already been determined. Then later you admited that you didnt know who would be chosen. Now you are saying we all diserve hell.
That cannot be the case if it we are puppets, according to you. Some go up and some go down(ACCORDING TO YOU). So how is it according to your claim, the people who go up, are deserving of hell?
If you are deserving of hell, as you just said, why are you wasting your time not raping and murdering?
Here is the answer you dont want to hear.
PEOPLE DO GOOD THINGS AND PEOPLE DO BAD THINGS AND THERE IS NO MAGIC REQUIRED TO STATE THE OBVIOUS!
I dont murder for two reasons. One is empathy, the other is that I dont want my freedom taken away from me. This can be found in every nation in every culture around the world and not all these people believe in your deity.
AGAIN, your bearded man in the white robe is NOT needed to live life or do good things. You are merely deeply indoctrinated in a delusion which has scrambled your brain.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
... the short book of James is mabey my favorite, and nearly Gnostic, tho I haven't read it in a long while ???,
Beatz, Did you read the Gnostic essay I posted ? I really hope you will , peace .....
Atheism Books.
We don't put the fear of no god (of any kind) into people. We try to get people to be rational and ask questions. I personally dunno what happens after death so..... yeah. Wow...... we believe in nothing sounds kind of contradictory no? Work and partying, and sex, book writing, web-site making, rational responding sounds good and not empty at all..... and I don't do drugs...I rarely drink and I know more christians that do far for drugs and partying that I do sir so in your face. We contribue to society,give to charity, etc.
yeah blah blah blah AHHH 8 paragraphs of CRAP!
---George Carlin---
Not Latin - French. Chauvin was the name of a soldier in Napolean's Grand Army of the Republic.
So, tell us, Beatz-himself-senseless, how has conversion changed the physical aspects of your life? How would we meager atheists recognize one of your persuasion by their chosen lifestyle? Do you pray all day - I mean when you're not composing missives for the RRS? Do you proselytise? Do you do great works? Do you don a superhero costume and leap tall crosses with a single bound. Do you read your book all day? Are you sober and chaste? Since it might be important to some of us, as you say, maybe you should let us know what to look for. You say the difference between your lifestyle and other mystics is enough to carry the primary and general elections and the electoral college too. How does that difference manifest itself? Or are we just supposed to take your word for it that you are somehow more worthy. And decry worthiness all you want - you're the one who said he has the ticket for the outbound express to paradise. That must make you really special. You KNOW some who believe they have seats on the train don't have a chance. Boy! the jokes on them, isn't it? Do you ever feel guilty about that?
Do you love? Do you love someone who perhaps doesn't have a seat aboard that outbound train to everlasting life? Suppose you did love someone - other than your chosen self of course. Loved them with all the heart you could spare that wasn't devoted to your god. Can you picture yourself willing to surrender your seat for your love's salvation? If you could? Assuming your god would allow such a thing? Can you? The answer will be yes or no.
I don't understand how anyone could accept the idea of unconditional election being found in the Bible. Jesus taught people how to improve themselves to bring them closer to Yahweh's desire and thus improve the odds they would be elected by the Father through the Christ. Unconditional election is tantamount to ignoring Jesus' teachings.
You said, "I have sin, I'm not perfect like the atheist who doesn't believe in sin." There are two logical fallacies in that statement: equivocation and misrepresentation. You have equivocated imperfection and sin but they are not equivalent. Sin, unlike imperfection, necessarily entails transgression against the moral code set forth by a deity. The existence of such a deity is a matter of dispute. Atheists accept that they're imperfect but do not accept that they're sinners. Because they accept their imperfection, your representation of them is false.
You said, "Apologies for the plagerism [sic], you remind me of how strict my college professors were about siting [sic]. I just put the name, didn't know I would be graded, don't call the cops." To plagiarize is to steal the credit due to others—and thou shalt not steal.
Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!
I know this isn't adding more to the debate, but I think this might be the dumbest thing I have heard anyone say, ever. I have heard lower intelligence individuals make logical mistakes, because they honestly didn't understand something might be a contradiction, due to lack of thinking, but this guy says we live empty lives full of joy and purpose LOL. He is stupid on purpose. He actually had to train himself to be this fucking stupid.
Your looking for the same exact thing as everyone else beatz, you just persist in delirium, hoping to acheive the same result as the guy you were referencing(I think that is one definition of insanity, to do the same thing and expect a different result). The result you so desperately want, but cannot acheive, is joy and fulfillment. And you are jealous as hell.
Thats cute.
The Rapture was invented by an american evangelical preacher in the 1800s, and is, to be blunt, bullshit. What's more, it's pointless. There is no effective difference between being 'raptured' and being dead. It's all a scam to insist that 'we don't have to die. We get to avoid death, because we are the special/elect few.'
Sound familiar? Just the sort of arrogrance and ego encouraged by predestination.
Ah, but conversion doesn't matter, remember? None of how they act matters, because God decides who gets saved, and he doesn't tell you his criteria.
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid