YES if there is no other interaction.

YES however you have a lot of external interactions if you are referring to human censuses.  You body is completely deterministic and all ways works the same way , for human censuses we have a lot of interaction however we can see a statistic determinism (religion , political views) in societies pushing such behaviors (christen parents will have Christian kids and if they grow up you get in 70 – 90 percent Christian adults) so yes.

Actually, on a quantum level, nothing is deterministic. And it seems to me the "statistical determinism" is an oxymoron. If somethiing is deterministic it does not need statistical analysis. The outcome is strictly known based on the inputs.

You will find many that disagree with the concept of the universe as a computational machine. Especially a deterministic machine. You are operating more in the realm of conjecture than science. It's interesting and fun, but that's as far as it goes for me.

Here's something for you to think about. If the universe is some giant fully deterministic computational machine, and if you know the state at some point in time and you know the "entire universe function", then you can know the next state in the machine. But, according to the Theory of Relativity, there is no universal frame of reference. So the state of the universe is different depending on your frame of reference. So which state of the universe gets put into the function?

I don't oppose determinism. Nor do I support it. You could say by stance on determinism is indeterminant.

Determinism on a universal scale is speculative. And discarding quantum mechanics because it is irrelevant on a macro scale is arbitrary. You can't discard quantum mechanics if you want to discuss universal determinism because it is part of the universe. 

The argument at hand is if the universe is a deterministic machine. If you discard quantum mechanics, you discard the fundamental nature of the universe.  So then you must weaken the claim to the macro universe only, or in other words, anything above the threshold of decoherence. But you can't really even to that because to know the state of the universe you must measure it. And at some point, the precision of your measurements re-enters the realm of the quantum mechanical. The underlying foundation of reality, at least to the current level of knowledge is quantum mechanical and indeterminant.

Random and indeterminant are not the same thing. And indeterminant processes don't eliminate causality. 

You can say how macro systems work or you can say how quantum systems work. But to say how the universe works you must include both.  

The whole thing or at a particular scale?

Black holes are pretty macro. What happens inside the event horizon?

It is unknown how quantum indeterminancy interacts with the macro world. We only know that for all intents and purposes, we can ignore it beyond a certain scale. And even certain macro events are the result of quantum events. The indeterminant decay of a radio active elements can cause the very macro effect of cancer or radiation burns.

No it's not just like a computer virus. If it was just like a computer virus it would BE a computer virus. A computer virus is a well understood piece of computer code that can be decomposed into its smallest constituent parts - zeros and ones. You can't even tell me what the smallest constituent parts of a meme are.

Just answer the question.  

WF the smallest part of a meme would be the smallest size of the basis of our system I say the meme byte is a single lather in your language  however there can be smallest units of measurement like computer bits this doesn’t invalidate my statement however.

To QM remember new scientific theories must account fore the phenomena observed ( Einstein’s formulas must account for Newton’s calculations ore incorporate them in a bigger model  ). Maybe the Q level is only a gateway where our universe crosses other deterministic universes and we are observing and interacting with thus universes (I pulled this out of my ass however this would explain something )

Lets put the cards on the table give me a experiment (in the macro scale and on earth ) that would prove or disprove determinism.

I give you mine :

 following  logic by humans , the constancy of natural phenomena

So in order to destroy determinism people need to stop holding their believes and change believes ate random (all atheists becoming religious all creationists and fundis swooping to atheism in one second) however this descent explain the history and why thus people followed logic before that event.

Besides QM doesn’t give you free will it gives you randomness and every system with determinism is a deterministic one  and one with randomness is random  if not can you give me your model or your explanation ?

No that just a explanation and a completely bogus one. You can detect cat in boxes without sending signals ! They emit heat radiation ! Give me something real and in the macro world. To put this in a logical chain of reactions :

1) (Quantum level strange things)

2) (atomic level = determinism)

3) (particles = determinism)

4) (micro scale = determinism)

5) (macro scale = determinism)

Conclusion :

A) the quantum level is deterministic because it large scale results give determinism and if it were the opposite way the macro level would be much more random do to random factor add up.

B) The quantum level haze no effect on the macro scale.

YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN THE DETERMINISM IN THE MACRO WORLD YOU CANT JUST THROW ALL LAWS AND FACTS OUT THE WINDOW.

Besides define your opinion on the world. And give me something that don’t foals under one of the following categories :

1) Complete randomness (Q level ?)

2) Complete Determinism (M level !)

If you start thinking of it actually every concept is deterministic including “free will “ (you due something because you see a reason [follow a schema ]). I don’t think most people can start imagining how a non deterministic world would look like :

-Rain raining from the earth to the sky ? It follows a pattern determinism .

Every thing swooping and changing ? Well they follow some momentary logic DET.

Complete reversal of every physical property ? Again a different set of rules however you follow thou deferent rules DET.

Actually determinism is like “Following some rules in every situation as lunge this rule doesn’t get over ruled by a another rule found in the rule book”

That all if you follow some rules/schemas/internal logic you get determinism.

To let you grasp this lets say yes however in determism there are options Z M N Q however do to the arrangement of values you get output Y. lets say a water drop is flowing down a pipe line driven by gravity so yes this drop of water will all ways falls down ! Regardless that it is possible for it to be in a another state like out side the pipe.

So to see something this water drop must teleport out side the pipe however this is a phenomena that can be created to the failure of the pipeline and some pressure (of cores according to complete deterministic laws minus the fact that we didn’t calculate this).

However the water drop getting out dancing samba and stealing a car while growing itself legs would suggest a case agents determinism it got something so completely different that it whose in no possible set to get like the sets Ł. This would suggest determinism wrong however do to the fact that inn all history we hade different experiences we can assume :

A) We got insane and we can enjoy the ride into super magic happy land .

B) We are on drugs or hallucinating

C) It’s a new low or force interacting here ( aliens ? )

Chill down WF XD don’t get so defensive .

1)      My point is that the QM concepts are completely irrelevant to the macro scale and No WF even if you bury the cat incredibly deep theoretically you can detect its heat given a precise sensor (I mean we can detect large planets orbiting distant start ).

To the rest of hocus pocus you seam to completely misunderstand every thing I have given heat radiation do to the fact that it doesn’t effect any thing ! heat is emitted and regardless of the fact that someone is listening or not and there is no feed back from the observer so its completely fool prove (and you can detect this cat with it without damaging the experiment [and if this is to complicated think of it so the cat is emitting sound and regardless if someone is lessening this sound is emitted ] ).

2) That my definition of my determinism ! If you haw problems understanding it lets call it “pre calculation”  and end of story. You seam to have got into a name over write on my part so why not create a new index number for my ideas ? so replace determinism with “pre-calculation” in all of my posts and I say every thing is pre-calculated in this universe (and possible in all universes ).

BTW : Did you know that the Polish word for mountain góra while spoken if to refers to your mountain góro is identical in spelling and typing (do to the fact that ó and u are spoken the same) like guro with is a peaty nasty art form in English and a tipo error meaning mountain in polish ? O and “bury” means gray in polish .

3) You seam to be completely evasive you try to disprove memes going totally off topic (first you battle the mechanisiti of he human body and now this ?) however you really don’t accomplish this you need to understand science and observation aren’t a dogma and you can ripe a part some fields while others are going to be unaffected by this. You see informatics and engineering will remain untouched even if we observe

The milky way galaxy dancing with the andromeda galaxy.

Here is the logic behind discovering  memes :

1)      People remember things (information).

2)      If people find some information weary “attractive” they tell others (god is going to hate you / the sky is falling / E=mc^2 / global worming will kill use all / all your base belong to us ).

3)      The tooled ones will properly tell others too.

And this information we call memes ! End of story regardless of other things that I have linked it to this is the basic observation behind memes.

And memes/trends are something we can observe every day ! I think memes are so undeniable like gravity.

I mean com on are you trying to debate me not having a rationalization for this observation .

To the pre-calculatibility of the universe remember if it were opposite and Q level reactions would dictate this world this conversation/cars/human censuses / and the internet would stop existing. If for instance you carbon molecules decided to change their evaporation temperature to 5 C then your body would stop existing do to evaporation !

Besides you failed to give me your concept or give me your reasons/experiments that would ether change your believes to pre-calculation are you are basing upon. I will repeat this massage in every post until you answer this question utile you answer me this and show how a no pre-calculated universe can be different from a random one.

Please hocus pocus , abra cadabra the skeptics invalidate the experiment by their lack of believe in my Devine powers. Is that what you are trying to say and its not a experiment its not even a proper statement the transmission is sent regardless of the fact that someone is listening.

(The point here is YOU CANT APPLIE THIS CAT NONSENSE TO THE MACRO WORLD ! And I’m perfectly aware to the fact that the cat represents the Q particles and opening the box is sending a signal similar to a sonar to it. However they my be other sub Q particles with can prove the pre-calculability even in the Q level. )

Actual while I’m a (self learned ) programmer (my biggest thing whose my own database program ) and while I barley understand must of QM.

I’m egger to listen and learn if you can explain this then go place enlighten me.

However some QM experts jokingly imply that they themselves don’t understand QM. While I totally agree with this and point out that some are unable to understand a extra system node listening to a transmission claming the impossibility of breaking a Q-Transmission. However most of thus dubious people fail to understand that the same statement can be made for ever analogue or delicate transmission system in existence like water pressured transmission pipes/laser optic cables.

This argument then I’m somehow incapable to understand something even If I beget for the evidence and explanation is well arrogant. Howe about this response to your nonsensical talk “ You fail to understand information and transmission theories and to  the fact that thus are facts used in computers you cant comprehend my intelligence I won’t waste my time” .

So please WF don’t end this conversation simply by claming to posse divine knowledge and ending it so.

O before I forget my little cunt paste :

What experiment would determine the pre-calculatobilyty or non pre-calculatobilyty of the universe.

And No you cat cheat you way out of this.

Head shot ! Why did I always end up being right in 101% ?

“

The concept of superposition, one of the strangest in quantum mechanics, helped provoke Schrödinger's conjecture. Broadly stated, the superposition is the combination of all the possible positions of a subatomic particle. The Copenhagen interpretation implies that the superposition only undergoes collapse into a definite state at the exact moment of quantum measurement.

Schrödinger's mind-game was meant to criticize the strangeness of this. Influenced by a suggestion of Albert Einstein's, Schrödinger extrapolated the concept to a larger scale. He proposed a scenario with a cat in a sealed box, where the cat's life or death was dependent on the state of a subatomic particle. According to Schrödinger, the Copenhagen interpretation implies that the cat remains both alive and dead until the box is opened.

Schrödinger did not wish to promote the idea of dead-and-alive cats as a serious possibility. The thought experiment serves to illustrate the bizarreness of quantum mechanics and the mathematics necessary to describe quantum states. Several interpretations of quantum mechanics have been put forward in an attempt to resolve the paradox. How they treat it is often used as a way of illustrating and comparing their particular features, strengths and weaknesses.

”

QM pre-calculated according to Schrödinger ??? And no inditerminity ore observer nonsense according to Schrödinger ?

Richard Feynman thought quantum effects did extend into the macro-world. He explained the illusion of Newtonian causality in terms of the remainder after wave cancellations.

I'll side with Feynman on this one, as I find it odd to declare that quantum effects simply vanish above a certain size.

And consider this. If Feynman was right, then it is determinism and causality that are the illusion.

I am including both. At subatomic levels, quantum mechanics rules. Above that level, classical physics rules. If you want, we can say that the universe is indeterminate at the subatomic level but determined at the macro level. Since we live at the macro level, that makes the universe determined as far as we are concerned.

Whe whole thing. Which is very, very macro.

A singularity is a one-dimensional point, which means it is very subatomic and quantum rules may apply. 

With the important point being that a certain level of radiation under a certain set of circumstances will always affect cells a certain way. Do you get it? Discussing quantum effects adds nothiing to a discussion of macro phenomena.

Now you are just being an asshat, wave.

Sure I can. They are the same as whatever the smallest constituent parts of thought are. Not sure what that is...we'd need to do experiments to find out what is the smallest bit of brain stimulus that we can perceive and record in memory.

Whatever, I've told you what a meme is. Abstract things don't have to have an objective ontology in order to be defined.  

Thanks 'freak. So do you, which I don't get to say very often to people with the theist tag. 

Yes, for two reasons. The first is that indeterminate states collapse when observed. So anything that we can observe and have information about is necessarily determined. Secondly, indeterministic effects at the micro level are still governed by probability. By the time trillions of those effects add up to a macro effect, the odds against it occuring in any way other than the way dictated by classical physics are so astronomical as to not be relevant.  

 I suppose you could say that the deterministic nature of the universe is an illusion in that it certainly can't be said to exist without observation. Then again, the universe can't be said to exist without observation, except in the most technical and irrelevant sense. 

It is pointless to try to separate "the universe" from what we can know about it. And what we can know about it is determined. If you really want to focus on a model of the universe as undetermined and without order, you might as well hang up your brain and quit inquiring, since you've already ruled out being able to know anything.  

The event horizon has a radius to outside observers. Inside the event horizon, there is no valid way to measure any distance between the event horizon and any point inside it. Space has collapsed to the extent that there is no difference between the radius of the black hole and the radius of an atom.

The Greeks invented the idea of spirt and to them it was material... they equated it with the breath.