I disprove christianity in 3 words
Offline Christians: Argue against this. Atheists: Tell me where I went right and where I went wrong.
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Offline Colossians says we have been forgiven of all our trespasses. Purgatory is a place where people go to be perfected, a place of pain, a place where our sinfulness is put to death. If we are forgiven, we don’t need to be perfected, God has already covered over all our sins. Hebrews also says that we have already been perfected therefore it contradicts a purgatory in which we get perfected.
Contradiction to purgatory in Colossians 2:13 is simply your imagination. The stretch is so wide, that I doubt many people will come to see your viewpoint and accept it. God forgave us of our tresspasses, but what are those "tresspasses" exactly? What are they referring to? Considering the historical situation, I'd rather go with literal tresspasses. Do remember that the book was aimed at certain very specific people.
Also, Hebrews state that those sanctified have been perfected, it doesn't say anything about anyone else. Have you been sanctified?
I don’t know what you are referring to when you say “the easter Island dilemma”?
Oh, you are not familliar with that. This is it:
On Easter Island, a lot before the first Christians arrived there, lived a small group of people. They had their own gods, represented in the huge head-like statues on one side of the beach. They lived in peace and harmony, and were generally what one would call good people. Obviously, since there was no Christian there before, they have never ever heard of Yahweh the god or his son, Jesus Crhist, and, therefore, had no reason to pray to him or offer burnt offerings or build churches. They simply had no idea of his existence.
The question: Will these people go to Heaven or Hell ? (to ease up the thought: let us consider that these people do not sin any more or any different than a regular Christian who goes to Heaven, of course excepting for the agnosticism of God and Jesus part; practically, if the Easter-islander would be a Christian, he would surely go to Heaven)
Side question: Will an atheist go to Heaven or Hell?
Problems:
1) Atheist to hell, Easter-islander to heaven - The only difference between the atheist and the Easter-islander is that the atheist has heard of God. Therefore, since, if he hadn't heard of God, he would have gone to heaven, just like the Easter-islander, the ones that have told him about God are, in fact, responsible for his damnation (you included). Needless to say that in this case, spreading the word of God actually damns people where the messenger doesn't have the strength to convince
2) Atheist to heaven, Easter-islander to heaven - In this case, all atheist vs. theist disputes are useless
3) Atheist to hell, Easter-islander to hell - Nevermind the atheist, but the Easter-islander is going to hell simply because he hadn't the chance to HEAR about God. Practically, he's bound to hell no matter what he does, until the first one to tell him about God and Jesus crosses his path.
4) Atheist to heaven, Easter-islander to hell - I presume you agree that this would be an extremely spooky possibility that we can dismiss
So... which is the case, and why?
You asked if it doesn’t matter what you do. What I do does not matter or add to my salvation. I gain salvation first, through Jesus alone, while in my sinful state, doing nothing good at all. However, once I am saved and have that security that heaven IS my home based on the merits of Jesus alone, once I know Salvation is mine already, God shows me how much he loves me in this and God puts in me a new heart that desires to live a life pleasing to him.
I doubt you will ever be able to prove that. Right now, I see many many Christians in jail.
John 5:29 does not contradict at all. When Salvation is given to you as a free gift, and you love yourself enough to accept it and see God’s love in it, you will want to show that you love God. It is a natural thing. What God has done for you is he has adopted you as his son even while you are dead in trespasses and sin. He adopted all of us in this condition.
Does that not speak of how much he truly loves you? If you fight against it, you are saying you don’t want to be adopted, you don’t want to be a part of his family. That is your choice. God didn’t make it. God is choosing you, he doesn’t want to harm you, he wants to prosper you and give you a hope and a future! He invites you to be in his permanent family. And once you are in it, he then helps you all along life’s path to make you more and more Holy, but because you believe in his great love for you, you desire that also.
I have no idea of what John 5:29 you have, but mine is "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" - to me it's clear that salvation is conditioned on what you do, and the verse has apparently nothing to do with God chooseing you, or giving you a path, or any of the emotional off-topicness you have posted in your response.
Psalm 62:12 No contradiction. Rewards are from within the kingdom of heaven. Heaven itself is not the reward. 1 Corinthians 3:14-16 “14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”
Heaven is already given to us the moment we believe.
Oh, I agree with you, but the point wasn't where rewards are coming from or in what way. Furthermore, that verse has nothing to do with that either. My Psalms 62:12 is: "Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work." - "You render every man according to his work" - I don't know how simpler and clearer it could get.
How exactly did you get to rewards from Heaven and Heaven already being given us, etc. ? I see no connection whatsoever with the verses.
I won't even bother to answer the rest, because either we're using two completely different Bibles, or you have a serious problem relating to what is actually written there, or I have a serious problem understanding the connections you make. Just one side note: The verses from John's Apocalypse, which you said are not in the Bible, actually are in the Bible. In the Catholic, Reformed and JW Bibles, the books is called "Revelations". In the Orthodox, it's called John's Apocalypse.
These don’t contradict either. We can drink alcohol; we just don’t want to get drunk.
Eating meat is fine, just not too much meat. (God knew in those days what we now know, and that is that some meat is healthy and too much meat is not)
Bollocks. That's simply your wishful thinking.
"Nevertheless, these shall ye not eat, of them that chew the cud or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel and the hare, and the coney; for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore, they are unclean unto you. And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass" - that's Deuteronomy. It states simply, clearly and explicitly. Thou shalt not eat! Imperative. NOWHERE does it say or even imply "thou shalt not eat in excess".
We would refrain from eating things in front of others such as the Jews because it might disturb their conscience, but we still can eat those things, just not while we are in the presence of the Jews. For example, we can drink alcohol but if we were in the presence of an recovering alcoholic struggling with temptation, we would not drink at all. We then give up our Christian freedom in the presence of that person for their sakes and benefit.
Bollocks. That's simply your wishful thinking and weird interpretation again. Nowhere in the verses I showed you does it say that, or does it even assume that! Actually, I don't think that anywhere in the Bible, God actually cares about disturbing conscience.
The OT food laws were for the Jews. The NT doesn’t require the food laws. Jesus said it is not what goes into the stomach that makes us unclean, it is what comes out of the heart. So in a sense, the old testament food laws could have been a shadow of the reality found in Christ.
OK, so the Jews cannot eat pork, but all the rest can. Nobody could eat pork before Jesus, now anyone can eat pork. Could you give me just one good reason for which I shouldn't treat these discriminating rules and these sudden changes of mood for the bollocks that they are?
No, I don’t agree. Ministers can and do expound the word of God to us. We can learn much from them. But at the same time, they are not perfect, and so we need to be like the Bereans in scripture who searched the scripture daily to see if what Paul said was true. Thus, the word of God takes first place over and above Ministers.
You've got to be kidding me !
OK, question. Up to now, you should admit that what you are saying on matters of scripture is an interpretation. My example with the law in Deuteronomy should be clear. Who provides that interpretation for you? Do you do it? If so, how do you know it is right?
The Papacy calls itself : “the vicar of Christ” Do you know what “vicar” means? It means “anti”. Therefore this statement “the vicar of Christ” means “ antichrist”
In what language? Do you happen to know that "Vicarivs Filii Dei", the Papal inscription, means "Representative of the Son of God", and not "Against the Son of God", in Latin? Considering that Latin was invented in Rome, I find the title quite normal.
"Pula" is a harmless word in Bulgarian. It's the name of a town. In Romanian, though, it means "penis".
"Hell" means, well, hell in English. But it's a harmless word in Finnish.
Do you want other examples of words that mean differently in different languages?
The Pope doesn’t claim sinless perfection but he does claim infallibility in matters of doctrine.
So as I was saying, that verse you brought forth as an example has absolutely nothing to do with the matter.
Boy you sure have believed a lot of Satan’s lies.
Answer this simply: are we threatened with Hell or not? If yes, all that I said stands.
You have just been a victim of false teaching is all. In Christianity, all you have to do is believe that Jesus has already given you the gift of eternal life in heaven even while we were yet wicked. That’s it!
Is that it? And afterwards you can do whatever you want? You can bother hundreds of people and make the tragedy of them losing a son in war even worse than it is like the Phelpses ()hope I got the family name right, you know what I'm referring to)? You can rob hundreds of people of their money and make complete fools out of them live on TV by pretending to heal them, like Popoff?
I'm sorry, are you sure you don't want to reconsider that?
Like I said above, all you have to do to go to heaven and avoid Hell is believe that Jesus has given it to you. Not hard. Hell threats are for those who reject belief in this message.
So, AGAIN I ask, if God sees the perfection in ALL of us, then why are we, the unbelievers (which, by the way, happen to be just about 90% of the human population with regards to your religion and branch), threatened with hell?
Yes, I see that. That is why you are having so much difficulty with God. That is your mistake. But it is not true that NONE of them act on it. So sorry you just haven’t met the ones who do.
I'm curious when this God of yours will send me one. Because if he doesn't before I die, I'll be in hell when he could have helped me just a little more, in his unconditional, omnibenevolent, love.
You have better evidence than did Thomas. We now have the completed word of God.
If you would just open your mind to finding truth in it instead of battling against it, I think you would be amazed!
Yes, we have the completed, logically incoherent, internally-contradicting, completely prone to just about any interpretation, dragged through dirt by all those who used it for their own purpose, completely uncertain because of the many denominations which all claim that they are "the true ones" with absolutely no different arguments from any of the others, hand-picked at the Councils of Nicaea by human hands, word of God.
Give me just one good reason why I should actually trust that word of God.
This religion is true because it has a God of love, first loving us by giving us the gift of eternal life in heaven without condition, while we were yet wicked. Love must be unconditional for it to be true love.
He also gave us (at least some of us) the punishment of eternal torture in hell. If he gave us the gift of eternal life in Heaven without condition, then it means that we are unconditionally going there. So then Hell doesn't exist, or, if it does, it doesn't affect anyone.
Since you believe in Hell as our torture and punishment, you cannot say that God gave us Heaven unconditionally. It's as simple as that. If we are not simply inheriting it, whatever other actions we do, then it's not unconditional.
The native Amerindian religions should also be true, then, because their gods not only love their people, they actually protect them as spirits, and help thenm by sending rain or sun when needed, and give them the Indian version of bliss when they die, if they deserve it, and if they don't, they don't just cast them away into torture, but make them into something useful in which they can recover, so that once, in the future, they too will join the bliss. From this point of view, the native Indians' religion is a lot more "true" than yours.
Buddhism also teaches that nobody gets burnt for eternity. Their religion is a religion of rewards only, no punishments. Their religion is a religion of self-progress, through which society progresses as well. From this point of view, their religion is a lot more "true" than yours.
Hold on, I'll be right back with the rest.
Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/
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Offline God controls government (kings) He uses evil Kings and Righteous Kings. All serve God wether the are good or evil. God uses all we do in this world to his own ends. For example. Jesus was crucified and God used that evil for his good purposes. You assume this verse means a physical visible King but it doesn’t say that.
Note that the verses speak of forever and ever. Physically, it is impossible for any man to rule forever and ever because we all die. So this isn’t talking about a physical visible Jesus . Verse 11 refers to Jesus. Verse 12 refers to believer’s who rule with Jesus forever.
11 The LORD swore an oath to David,
a sure oath that he will not revoke:
"One of your own descendants
I will place on your throne- 12 if your sons keep my covenant
and the statutes I teach them,
then their sons will sit
on your throne for ever and ever.
As you see, it wasn't referring to one person reigning forever.
Quote:This verse is prophecy about his second coming. How do you know it was the second, not first, coming? There is no part of the Tanach, aka the Old Testament, which says there will be more than one coming of the Messiah.Daniel 7:14 (New International Version) 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Quote:Again, a prophecy of his second coming. See Revelation 19-22Daniel 7:27 (New International Version) 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.'
Quote:He rules from Heaven. I spoke about this a bit above. God is not dead, he is in control of the entire world. Everything works out for his purpose and plan.Echo wrote: Isaiah 9:6 "6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. BenfromCanada wrote: Hey, look, you pointed out another one! How could the government be on his shoulders if he wasn't a physical political leader?
Quote:Here is a link that deals with this topic. Type in "contradictions" in the search feild and then You can click on the dozens of links to read the whole Questions and answers. And also, at the bottom, there are pages and pages to go through also. The link only gives the first sentence or so of the article. http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?61Echo wrote: I have no idea where to find it, could you copy/paste it here please? BenfromCanada wrote: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/rook_hawkins/biblical_errancy/47
Quote:Is this specifically the post you are reffering to? (I put it in quotes below) Or is there more? I would like to save myself some reading if possible:Echo wrote: No contradiction at all. I assure you that it is your lack of scripture knowledge that is causing you so much trouble. We are solely saved by grace. That means obedience to the law is not a requirement to get into heaven as if our getting there is conditional on our obedience. Our getting there isn’t conditional on our obedience. Our getting there is solely the result of what Jesus did for us and in our place. It is this love of God that produces in us a desire to keep the very law that we have been freed from keeping. We Have a new heart that loves God. And anyone who loves God will want to do what pleases him. The message? The message is that we don’t do good works or obey to get into heaven, but rather, we do good works and obey because Heaven has been given to us as a gift. BenfromCanada wrote: I actually had a discussion about this with another theist here. And another theist told him "dude, Ben's right" (basically). You're going to have to scroll a bit, but here is the thread.
Also, you claim that salvation is a free gift, according to Ephesians 2:8-9. Well, there are many parts of the bible that don't agree. Jeremiah 17:10, Matthew 5:20, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:41-46, John 5:29, Romans 2:6, II Corinthians 5:10, James 2:14 (probably my personal favourite for debunking this myth:"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?" I Peter 1:17, Revelation 2:23, ALL say that works are required. And that isn't all of them. I could have added others, but that's more than enough.
Quote:Sinning.Ben from Canada wrote: OK, so what illegal action were the parents of Jesus' followers doing?
Quote:There are two kinds of righteousness, mine and the righteousness I have by faith in Jesus. The first is imperfect this side of heaven, the second is perfect the moment I believed.Echo wrote: By the law, no one is righteous, we all sin. BenfromCanada wrote: By the Law, those who follow the law are righteous. If they make the sacrifices, their sin is gone.
Quote:Yes. Jesus was perfectly righteous; he gave that righteousness to us like a robe to wear. Remember the passages about being dressed in white? So we become like snow covered dung. God only sees the snow. Jesus has made us perfect forever. Just as we have been declared perfect forever in his righteousness, we now desire to work on our own righteousness out of thanks. That perfection that Jesus gives us assures us the moment we believe, that we are going to heaven. So there is no fear. Hebrews 10:14 “because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.” Notice in the above verse, we have been made perfect (past tense) and now that we are perfect forever in God’s eyes because of the righteousness Jesus gave us, now we work on our own righteousness just out of love and thanks. We know heaven is our home before we even begin working on our righteousness.BenfromCanada wrote: Jesus has declared us righteous and this is not our own righteousness it is his gift to us. So we are righteous. Even though it's not "our righteousness" it's still righteousness.
Echo wrote: So it is true. We are unrighteous by the law but righteous by faith. Phil 3:9 “and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.” BenfromCanada wrote: Still righteous, regardless of how it is. So, the parts that say "we aren't righteous" are wrong. So why are they in there?
Quote:Well maybe it’s not clear there but it is clear elsewhere in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 5:9 “9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.”Echo wrote: Doesn’t fit. What does “in the world” mean? It means we are in the world and we relate to and love others. What does “not of it” mean? We are in the world and relate to and love others but refrain from sinning as they do. Ben from Canada wrote: This doesn't make sense, and isn't implied.
Quote:We cannot always see our sins. Sometimes we can obey God’s commands and do it with the wrong motive. God doesn’t look at the outward actions, he looks at the heart.Echo wrote: Because not everyone sees themselves as sinners who will be condemned to Hell. The Pharisees are the prime example of this. BenfromCanada wrote: We can still see whether or not we fulfil the laws. The Pharisees did, so they'd be in heaven. Jesus broke them wilfully, he's in hell.
Quote:You have to take all the prophecies as a whole. If you don’t then sure, some men could fulfill them. But with all of them together, only God could fulfill them.Echo wrote: Seriously, you don’t come even close to fulfilling these prophecies. And this is just a drop in the bucket, there are around 300 prophecies of Jesus in the OT. Benfromcanada wrote: You were asked to give one that ONLY Jesus could fulfill. Please tell me where I don't fulfill one of those.
Quote:The reason Job went through all that suffering is because He claimed that Job only served and loved God because it “pays” Job was a righteous man and because of it, he was blessed in many ways by God. So Satan says to God: if you take away your blessings from Job, then it will be proved that he is only righteous because it pays.Echo wrote: Do you understand why God allowed Job to go through that? The best I can come up with is a combination of "showing Satan he wouldn't curse god for all that he was put through" and "shits and giggles".
Quote:Sorry if I misread it.I'll PM you a reply to the parts about my deconversion story. However, you did misread it.
Oops, I should have read your post before asking in this thread how to open a PM. Sorry. I wanted to read the PM first. Thanks for the help! I will give it a whirl and if I can’t get into it again, I will let you know.
Quote:This is just symbolic. It helps us to grasp in a word picture, what he is like.Echo wrote: The Pope teaches doctrines contrary to scripture. In fact, the Papacy fits some of the descriptions of the antichrist. BenfromCanada wrote: The Pope is a dragon?
Quote:In a sense it is about climbing up to God by good works.Echo wrote: The Bible explains why there are so many conflicting religions. All relgion outside of Christianty is mans attempt to reach up to God. Much like the tower of Babel. Christianity is God comming down to reach man. BenfromCanada wrote: I don't think religions that are named "Submission" (the literal translation for Islam) are about reaching up to god and becoming as god was (which is what the tower of Babel was about)
Quote:Baby born in the sky? Heh heh, Again, the Bible contains word pictures that help us understand. All this is symbolism and not to be taken literally.Echo wrote: Not all religion is true relgion. Therefore where there is true religion, there will be false relgion. Where there is good, there will be evil also trying to make the good look evil. The Papacy? Fits the general descritption of the antichrist. BenfromCanada wrote: The Pope has seven heads and eats a baby that is born in the sky?
Yes, actually every believer is symbolically and Isrealite. Revelation speaks about the 12 tribes of Isreal. 144,000 in each tribe. 12 being the number of “completeness” so it is symbolic of the complete number of believer’s. 12 squared is 144,000.
Quote:It would take me several months if not longer just to show you how we conclude this. When a person studies the word of God regularly, these things become more clear. If you did a study on the “walls” throughout the Bible, you could learn how it is often symbolic of protection of God’s people. And if you search on the topic of “truth” there you will learn that truth protects us.Echo wrote: Yes, these have been fulfilled. The passages are speaking about a restored Jerusalem. When Jesus came, he restored truth which in reality is restoring Jerusalem (symbolic of true believer’s) The walls are symbolic of doctrine or truth that keeps the people safe from outside attacks from the enemy. Ben from Canada You can't get away with that. Answer the point.
Quote:The exception is TRUE Christianity. True Christianity does not encourage violence, wealth or strength. True Christianity encourages love, even to our enemies, it encourages turning the other cheek, not taking revenge, not even returning insult for an insult. It teaches us that we are weak and not strong. I believe you have been a victim of a false church or hypocrites if you think True Christianity is what you are claiming. Try a WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) church next time. There you will see what I have been saying.Echo wrote: The passages are not talking about physical attraction. They are talking about spiritual attraction. Isaiah 53 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him Echo wrote: The unbelieving world looks at the outward. What attracts the unbelieving world? Wealth, strength,power, position, etc someone who will fight. BenfromCanada wrote: Which is exactly why over 2/3 of the entire world believes in a religion that goes against all of that? Source. The following religions encourage charity, humility, peace, etc. (as well as violence and wealth and strength and such, in at least a few cases): Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Spiritism, Judaism, Baha'i, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Neo-Paganism, Unitarian-Universalism, Rastafari. Not sure about Shinto, Tenrikyo and Cao Dai. The rest either don't speak on them, aren't really "for" them or are an inaccurate grouping of religions based on flimsy pretenses.
Quote:Yes, and what a testimony to the truth that he actually existed! They don’t believe he was God so they are considered unbelievers. So that is a testimony of his true existence from outside the fold, so to speak.Echo wrote: Jesus was poor, humble, a servant who forgave. And the world does not find that attractive. BenfromCanada wrote: Remember those religions I just listed? Subtract Rastafari, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, and Neo-Paganism and you have the list of religions that claim to either have Jesus as a prophet, or really respect and love him. (Actually, I think the Zoroastians might like Jesus...)
Quote:Jesus is the messiah. John 4:25 “The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.” Messiah actually means “Christ”Echo wrote: Remember that there are around 300 prophecies in the OT, not just these ones. But if we take a look at Isaiah, Jesus was despised and rejected by men even though he never sinned. Benfromcanada wrote: WHAT? Jesus wasn't in Isaiah. That was the Messiah, and that was Isaiah predicting the Messiah.
Quote:Pierced means crucified. He was pierced in his hands and feet.Echo wrote: Especially note that he was pierced for our transgression. BenfromCanada wrote: So was I.
Regardless, "pierced" could mean "impaled" or "stabbed" or even "raped", and probably many other things, depending on how you look at it. Quote:Where?Echo wrote: Because Jesus has obeyed them in our place, he has now declared us perfect forever. We are no longer under the law but under grace. The law was a babysitter to lead us to be justified in Christ. BenfromCanada wrote: Jesus himself denied this.
Quote:By looking at all of creation, by looking at the awesome technology that goes into creating a human being. Nothing man has ever created compares with the human body. All they would have to do is say: “God, if you exist, please help me to see that”Echo wrote: The Bible says that God places everyone where they can find him if they seek him. BenfromCanada wrote: So placing them where there was no way of knowing that Jesus existed because there was no bible there, no one who had read or heard of the bible, and no one who spoke a language the bible had been translated into, can find him HOW?
Quote:Is that the thread you gave a link to above?Echo wrote: First, we are not saved by our righteousness. Isaiah calls our righteousness “filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6) How can a person have reserves about accepting eternal life as an absolutely free gift without cost? That would be like winning the lottery and refusing the money you won. BenfromCanada wrote: Click the link to the thread with tmajor. This has been debunked.
Quote:No it is not, free will (ability to choose God) is lost until God brings us into faith.)Echo wrote: When we hear and understand the gospel, free will is restored. BenfromCanada wrote: Free will is nowhere in the bible. In fact, just the opposite, it is discouraged.
Quote:That is your mistake then, go to him for the truth. His word has it all.Echo wrote: God must chase us and get us to hear it while we hate him. He has no easy job because we battle against him the whole way. Ben from Canada wrote: We don't battle "Him" we battle the (,,,) "His Followers" give us.
You seem to be believing all the lie’s about God as is very clear by our conversations. That nasty guy (Satan) is a liar and a deceiver. Why would he have to proclaim anything that is true? Satan is the author of lie’s, there is no truth in him.
Quote:It is to be applied all over since we all crucified him because of our sins. They did NOT do a good thing, But God used it for good. There is a difference.Echo wrote: Jesus said: “forgive them for they know NOT what they do” BenfromCanada wrote: Speaking specifically, in context, about people who executed him. Why is this to be applied all over, especially since, under christianity, they did a GOOD thing by saving us from sin?
Quote:I will take your word for it. My thoughts are that they are hypocrites (unbelievers). People who profess Jesus outwardly but really are not converted. Satan has a hayday using hypocrites to scare people off and he is quite successful at it.Echo wrote: But, it also is true that some of the letters might be perceived as threats when they are not really threats. BenfromCanada wrote: You can read many of them in the forums. They have 2 forums for letters received from theists. There are many clear-cut threats.
Hi Ben, I tried to open your PM and I am not sure how to do that. I get into my inbox and your PM is there. If I click on your name, it brings up your profile. The only other things to click on are as follows: Delete Write a new message Empty Folder New Folder Help? heh heh
The links under "Subject" are what you should click to read the messages. There's a title to my PM. Click the title.
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BenfromCanada
God controls government (kings) He uses evil Kings and Righteous Kings. All serve God wether the are good or evil. God uses all we do in this world to his own ends.
For example. Jesus was crucified and God used that evil for his good purposes.
You assume this verse means a physical visible King but it doesn’t say that.
Note that the verses speak of forever and ever. Physically, it is impossible for any man to rule forever and ever because we all die. So this isn’t talking about a physical visible Jesus . Verse 11 refers to Jesus. Verse 12 refers to believer’s who rule with Jesus forever.
This verse is prophecy about his second coming.
Again, a prophecy of his second coming. See Revelation 19-22
He rules from Heaven. I spoke about this a bit above. God is not dead, he is in control of the entire world. Everything works out for his purpose and plan.
Here is a link that deals with this topic. Type in "contradictions" in the search feild and then You can click on the dozens of links to read the whole Questions and answers. And also, at the bottom, there are pages and pages to go through also.
The link only gives the first sentence or so of the article.
http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?61
Is this specifically the post you are reffering to? (I put it in quotes below) Or is there more? I would like to save myself some reading if possible:
Sinning.
There are two kinds of righteousness, mine and the righteousness I have by faith in Jesus. The first is imperfect this side of heaven, the second is perfect the moment I believed.
Yes. Jesus was perfectly righteous; he gave that righteousness to us like a robe to wear. Remember the passages about being dressed in white? So we become like snow covered dung. God only sees the snow. Jesus has made us perfect forever. Just as we have been declared perfect forever in his righteousness, we now desire to work on our own righteousness out of thanks. That perfection that Jesus gives us assures us the moment we believe, that we are going to heaven. So there is no fear.
Hebrews 10:14 “because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.”
Notice in the above verse, we have been made perfect (past tense) and now that we are perfect forever in God’s eyes because of the righteousness Jesus gave us, now we work on our own righteousness just out of love and thanks. We know heaven is our home before we even begin working on our righteousness.
I think I may have explained this more clearly above. There are two righteousness.
1 Corinthians 5:9 “9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.”
The reason Job went through all that suffering is because He claimed that Job only served and loved God because it “pays” Job was a righteous man and because of it, he was blessed in many ways by God. So Satan says to God: if you take away your blessings from Job, then it will be proved that he is only righteous because it pays.
Oops, I should have read your post before asking in this thread how to open a PM. Sorry.
I wanted to read the PM first. Thanks for the help!
I will give it a whirl and if I can’t get into it again, I will let you know.
This is just symbolic. It helps us to grasp in a word picture, what he is like.
In a sense it is about climbing up to God by good works.
Baby born in the sky? Heh heh, Again, the Bible contains word pictures that help us understand. All this is symbolism and not to be taken literally.
Yes, actually every believer is symbolically and Isrealite. Revelation speaks about the 12 tribes of Isreal. 144,000 in each tribe. 12 being the number of “completeness” so it is symbolic of the complete number of believer’s. 12 squared is 144,000.
It would take me several months if not longer just to show you how we conclude this.
When a person studies the word of God regularly, these things become more clear. If you did a study on the “walls” throughout the Bible, you could learn how it is often symbolic of protection of God’s people. And if you search on the topic of “truth” there you will learn that truth protects us.
The exception is TRUE Christianity. True Christianity does not encourage violence, wealth or strength. True Christianity encourages love, even to our enemies, it encourages turning the other cheek, not taking revenge, not even returning insult for an insult. It teaches us that we are weak and not strong. I believe you have been a victim of a false church or hypocrites if you think True Christianity is what you are claiming. Try a WELS (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) church next time. There you will see what I have been saying.
Yes, and what a testimony to the truth that he actually existed! They don’t believe he was God so they are considered unbelievers. So that is a testimony of his true existence from outside the fold, so to speak.
Jesus is the messiah. John 4:25 “The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.” Messiah actually means “Christ”
Pierced means crucified. He was pierced in his hands and feet.
Where?
By looking at all of creation, by looking at the awesome technology that goes into creating a human being. Nothing man has ever created compares with the human body.
All they would have to do is say: “God, if you exist, please help me to see that”
Is that the thread you gave a link to above?
No it is not, free will (ability to choose God) is lost until God brings us into faith.)
That is your mistake then, go to him for the truth. His word has it all.
You seem to be believing all the lie’s about God as is very clear by our conversations.
That nasty guy (Satan) is a liar and a deceiver. Why would he have to proclaim anything that is true? Satan is the author of lie’s, there is no truth in him.
It is to be applied all over since we all crucified him because of our sins. They did NOT do a good thing, But God used it for good. There is a difference.
I will take your word for it. My thoughts are that they are hypocrites (unbelievers). People who profess Jesus outwardly but really are not converted. Satan has a hayday using hypocrites to scare people off and he is quite successful at it.
Isaiah 1:18 " Come now, let us REASON together,"
says the LORD.
"Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.
Member of WELS
Hi Ben, I tried to open your PM and I am not sure how to do that.
I get into my inbox and your PM is there.
If I click on your name, it brings up your profile.
The only other things to click on are as follows:
Delete
Write a new message
Empty Folder
New Folder
Help? heh heh
Isaiah 1:18 " Come now, let us REASON together,"
says the LORD.
"Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.
Member of WELS
Part 1 - Purgatory
Colossians 2:13 - "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses" <- from where does it come out that purgatory is contrary to scripture in this particular verse?
Hebrews 10:14 - "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." <- again I ask, from where does it come out that purgatory is contrary to scripture in this particular verse?
Part 2 - Salvation
Romans 9:32 - "Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone" <- So salvation is not through works, that's for sure. This verse kind of shows that it is through faith. Should I pose the Easter Island dillema again?
Ephesians 2:9 - "Not of works, lest any man should boast." - So clearly it doesn't matter what you do.
These two, however, kind of contradict: John 5:29, Psalms 62:12, Jeremiah 17:10, Ezekiel 18:27, Matthew 16:27, Matthew 25:34-36, Romans 2:6 (hehe, contradicts in the same book), Romans 2:13, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Corinthians 11:15, 1 Peter 1:17, Apocalypse 2:23, Apocalypse 20:12-13, Luke 18:18-22, Apocalypse 22:14, Matthew 12:27, so I guess that your position is quite a minority there...
Part 3 - Ministers and marriage
1 Timothy 4:3-4 - "Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth / For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving" <- Actually, you've got a point on this one, I too have been wondering why priests must not marry. Kind of contradicts Paul's views in 1 Corinthians 7:1 and 7:7-8.
Part 4 - Food
1 Timothy 4:3-4 - (pasted above) <- It kind of contradicts Genesis 1:29, Proverbs 23:20, Daniel 1:8, Romans 14:21, Deuteronomy 14:7-8, Leviticus 11:2-4. Even if one may argue that those laws were the "old laws", why the sudden change of heart on God's behalf?
Part 5 - The Pope
1 Timothy 2:5 - "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" <- in that case just about all priests, ministers or reverends are kind of useless, don't you think ?
2 Thessalonians 2:4 - "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" <- the Pope never claimed that, and it doesn't have any connection to infallibility
Quote:
I'm on the edge of my seat in anticipation!The God of the Bible is also a god of hatred. That means he must hate us first before we can hate him. He hated us first. He gave us the punishment of eternal damnation in Hell. When we don't hear his message, and obviously cannot believe, THEN do whatever else you wish, for it's useless anyway. The God of the Bible hates us unconditionally.
Well, at least for Islam, you know for sure what you have to do. For Christianity, it's all a big mumbo-jumbo emo-themed bullshit that nobody will ever care/know to explain in full, so that everyone can understand.
Needless to say, my eagerness was severely disappointed.
Ben kind of fulfills those that you cared to quote. Will you go for the others? Besides, he already proved to you that at least the one prophecy about appearance he did NOT fulfill, to our knowledge. Also, the one about the name, which I will take time to seek later, he didn't fulfill either, and there is absolutely no doubt about that.
I have no idea how you use your quoting to respond, really. Nevermind this, forget it...
Respond to Ben on this one.
It's possible. Can't remember how the crucifiction entered the talk anyway.
So, if God sees the perfection of Jesus in us, then why the heck are we threatened with Hell? (I've got the feeling we're going to go circular here)
Well, here we got circular. Think, dude, that's why your head is there. A pre-1942 American means a native amerindian BEFORE Columbus set out to "discover" the Americas. Therefore, there was NO Christianity around there AT ALL. If Winettou would have looked back then at the stars, the natural world, he would have danced around the fire chanting in the name of Manitou. The ones in the Meexican area wouldn't even do that, they would just sit by, smmoking a peyota. So... you said: "The Bible says that God places everyone where they can find him if they seek him.", and I say: "Clearly this is false, because that's just one example in which people DIDN'T find God." As amazing as it may seem to you, do know that not all people are either Christian or Atheists.
I base my opinion not on what people TEACH, but on what they DO. Because all Christians teach the Bible and Jesus, but none of them actually ACT on them.
Actually, he did a lot LESS with that. Jesus actually allowed Thomas to touch him, and see that he is he, and njot a ghost or apparition. He actually knew Jesus, he actually touched him. Why can't I have the same first-hand evidence? What's my fault that I wasn't born in Jerusalem around 6 c.e. ?
If God, however, had imprinted himself in the minds of ALL people, the consciousness of God being sent down generation by generation, that problem would have been easily solved. But nooooooooo... God had to sacrifice himself to himself...
Whoa ! Hold on there, buster. Let me get this straight. We don't have the free will to choose God? God must choose us first?
If this is so, then I have only God to blame for me being an atheist. God didn't choose me, and I can't choose him because I have no free will to choose him. So practically, my "salvation through faith" depends on God's will entirely. So practically, if God doesn't want me to reveal himself to me, then I will be forever evil and I will burn in Hell, and, furthermore, I won't be able to do any darned thing about it.
Is that really what you wanted to say? I'll give you a chance to reconsider. Because if it is, then you've seriously and finally flushed the toilet on God's omnibenevolence, complete love and righteousness. Also, you've contradicted the first few paragraphs of your response instantly.
How do I know which Church is the right one? There's no difference between them, ecept for naming and culture. You say that your god is a god of love, but, frankly, I can't see that he is, considering all he's done and all he does. I'd rather choose Buddha instead. Holy books? They all have them. Fanatics? All of them have them.
What's the difference? What gives you a clue that your religion is true?
Actually, I happen to know the guy, he's a fanatic.
It works in a reverse logic as well. Do not forget that it is you, the Lutherans, who strayed from the official path in the Middle Ages.
Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/
This is why I urge my friends and other Christians, to not avoid you non-godians. That jcgadfly, is logic from you?
You look very much like a ape. Can you be hunted, shot and have your remains sold? No you cannot.
Fiction is fiction and presented as fiction. Spiderman is a modern comic book written as fiction for the enjoyment of the readers of fantasy. Peter Parker can be disproved from the writings about Peter Parker.
The New Testament was written painstakingly as a history book and a reporting of actual events that actually happened. It has been proven to be accurate in that endeavor.
Now, go back to watching "Real World" on MTV. You know the "real world" where there is a camera crew following a household of non-related and physically attractive youth trying to figure out this f---ed up "actual" real world.
It's intereesting how the Apostle Paul represents 2007 so accurately from his view in first century Roman life though.
"There is nothing new under the sun."
A contradiction, or a fact?
0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.
So Osama will not burn in Hell, for it wasn't him that did anything, it was God using him as a tool...
You sure you don't want to reconsider that?
Mind gymnastics. I'd rather think they were referring to a metaphorical Jesus. Paul seems to agree with that, anyway.
If everything works out for his purpose and plan, if that plan includes you being a new Hitler and obviously going to hell for that, there wouldn't be anything you could do about it, right?
Really, honestly, again I say, are you 100% sure you don't want to reconsider that?
Well... we shouldn't fear Hell then, should we?
So you're suggesting that the Unabomber would find himself in Heaven? He actually believed he did the right thing. In his heart, he was innocent and pure. It was only in the head that he was fucking crazy. I really wouldn't like to bump into him when going to get my harp tuned...
OK, so in other words, Job suffered just so that God and Satan can enjoy their little wager... ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME ???
Well, actually, 12 squared is only 144 and 144,000 is not a natural square, but we've got your point
If I correctly recall, 10 of the 12 Israeli tribes were squashed by Hadrian's legions... That would have no influence, would it?
Of course it does. That's why God lies and deceives, and that's why Adam and Eve weren't allowed to know the TRUTH about good and evil.
Care to reconsider that, please ?
Am I allowed to kick people around in there?
Seriously, if the "true christianity" would preach that, then all the atrocities and bullshit rules, and threats of Hell and damnation from the Bible and from doctrine would be put down forever. Which is not the case. So spare us the bullshit, we can read through the lines, it seems, far better than you.
I couldn't care less if he actually existed or not. He might have. All I care about is whether he was a god and did those miracles. And here you're out of luck, because, except for the 4 evangelists (funny that the others don't quite remember themselves, ether) NOBODY ELSE remembers the miracles.
Jesus never sinned, but he:
- broke the 10 commandments (not all, but most)
- cursed a fig tree for not having figs out of season
- infected some innocent pigs with demons
...and many more to come, if you want.
Thumbs up, rummy.
That could also mean that he was shot with arrows. Anyway, this is unimportant.
...and nothing happens... for things that are at rest tend to remain at rest.
Allow me to say "merci, mais non!" on that.
You, like all theists, generalize too much! I did NOT crucify him, I wasn't there, I didn't ask for his sacrifice, and I didn't have any option on the matter. So stop it.
Stop. Look. Listen. Can you hear the sound of self-ownage?
Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/
BenfromCanada,
nonbobblehead wrote:nonbobblehead wrote:
You are right. And I apologize. I don't have the time to reply quickly. I am a father and I work.
I always get caught up in fighting bullies (have since school days), as I see it, the Atheists-Freethinkers-Skeptics, are just that.
But why is it that "you" atheists think that the people that "choose" Christianity did not do so after viewing all of the evidence for and against it?
Why are you smart and Christians stupid?
It is a better time in the 21st century to see what the Apostles were presenting is an absolute truth, than in any time in history (except maybe the ressurrection).
Our modern world looks more like the Book of Romans (and James), then it does The Origon of Species.
"I" am not very Christ like. The word "Christian" means "Christ like." Or little Christian. I have a hard time with being slapped and not slapping back. The snide, haughty, elitist diatribe of the oh-so typical atheist/freethinker/skeptic, is so unimmpressive most of the time, I get irritated and give them what they give.
Again, I apologize.
The New Testament is an impressive collections of writings. They certainly seem supernatural to me. As does Jesus. I have never said it was not OK to be an atheist, I just hold to the fact that it is emotionalism knee-jerk hedocism that drives it on 9 times out of ten. Once you become a parent, you see the "why" of the childish behavior inherent in the human being. I see atheists as children that never grew out of their selfishness to embrace the fact that all of life is not just an accident to excuse away the desire to get away with things.
Again. I'll apologize for being rude to you, and that's all. I will not apolgize for the rational belief that we are not accidents created by other random accidents. We are heading in an orderly direction for "some" reason or another.
0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.
OK, I did a little satire, only trying to continue what you started. I thought you had that intention in mind as well. jcgadfly pushed on, and then you popped open. What are we to understand from here? That you: a) don't realize that you're not mocked or b) actually believe that which we wrongly believed you are making fun of. In the first case, I'd advise you to chill, nobody has any ill will against you. In the second case, you'd be pathetic.
Well, technically speaking, you can. What's to stop anyone from doing that?
Yes, that is so.
And how do you know that the New Testament's purpose was that? How do you know precisely? Do not forget that the New Testament (the whole Bible actually) is nothing but a collection of different writings by different authors, hand-picked by the councils at Nicaea. How do you know that Revelations, for instance, wasn't meant to be a fairy-tale?
And it's been proven shitty in that attempt, actually. Yes, it does have some historical truth in it, but that's where it kind of stops. Rook, if you're reading this, please be a good historian and list all the historical inaccuracies for this one.
What can I say, big news! I could have told you that about 3000 years before the world was supposedly formed, according to the young-eartherns... Probably I'd be sipping some newly-brewed beer with Hammurabbi when I'd be saying that...
Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/
I, for one, being the original one to reply to your post in satire, never for one moment thought that you weren't having a satirical tone yourself. So, through your reactions, you've just made a complete fool of yourself in my eyes.
Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/
Rogormortis
Colossians says we have been forgiven of all our trespasses. Purgatory is a place where people go to be perfected, a place of pain, a place where our sinfulness is put to death. If we are forgiven, we don’t need to be perfected, God has already covered over all our sins. Hebrews also says that we have already been perfected therefore it contradicts a purgatory in which we get perfected.
I don’t know what you are referring to when you say “the easter Island dilemma”?
You asked if it doesn’t matter what you do. What I do does not matter or add to my salvation. I gain salvation first, through Jesus alone, while in my sinful state, doing nothing good at all. However, once I am saved and have that security that heaven IS my home based on the merits of Jesus alone, once I know Salvation is mine already, God shows me how much he loves me in this and God puts in me a new heart that desires to live a life pleasing to him. What God has done for us changes our heart about God and we fall in love with him. When you fall in love with someone, you naturally then want to do things that please them for no reason other than love.
John 5:29 does not contradict at all. When Salvation is given to you as a free gift, and you love yourself enough to accept it and see God’s love in it, you will want to show that you love God. It is a natural thing. What God has done for you is he has adopted you as his son even while you are dead in trespasses and sin. He adopted all of us in this condition.
Does that not speak of how much he truly loves you? If you fight against it, you are saying you don’t want to be adopted, you don’t want to be a part of his family. That is your choice. God didn’t make it. God is choosing you, he doesn’t want to harm you, he wants to prosper you and give you a hope and a future! He invites you to be in his permanent family. And once you are in it, he then helps you all along life’s path to make you more and more Holy, but because you believe in his great love for you, you desire that also.
Psalm 62:12 No contradiction. Rewards are from within the kingdom of heaven. Heaven itself is not the reward. 1 Corinthians 3:14-16 “14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”
Heaven is already given to us the moment we believe.
Jeremiah 17:10 No contradictions here either. This is much the same as above. However to those who reject God in unbelief, Hell is their reward.
Ezekiel 18:27, Again, this doesn’t contradict. If you are on death row in prison for a crime you committed and someone comes along and sits in the chair in your place so that you are free to go. Would you continue on in the life that got you there in the first place and then wind up on death row again? Or would you do a 180 and head in a better direction in your life?
Matthew 16:27, Same as the above
Matthew 25:34-36, Again, no contradiction. Naturally believer’s will desire to do good things, not to get into heaven, but rather, because they have been given heaven.
Romans 2:6 , Again, think of marriage, generally if you love someone, you will try to show that. If we love God, we will try to show that by how we live. But the marriage was in place first and then came the marriage relationship. Salvation comes first, then comes our relationship.
Romans 2:13, Taken out of context. Read Romans 3:9-20 which show the point Paul was trying to make.
2 Corinthians 5:10, Again, believer’s receive rewards from within heaven. The reward is not heaven itself. Unbelievers receive what is due them which is Hell.
2 Corinthians 11:15, No contradiction. It is for unbelievers.
1 Peter 1:17, Nothing to do with salvation.
Apocalypse 2:23, Not in the Bible
Apocalypse 20:12-13, Not in the Bible
Luke 18:18-22, Taken out of context see verse 26 and 27.
Apocalypse 22:14, Not in the Bible
Matthew 12:27, no connection to salvation .
These don’t contradict either. We can drink alcohol; we just don’t want to get drunk.
Eating meat is fine, just not too much meat. (God knew in those days what we now know, and that is that some meat is healthy and too much meat is not)
We would refrain from eating things in front of others such as the Jews because it might disturb their conscience, but we still can eat those things, just not while we are in the presence of the Jews. For example, we can drink alcohol but if we were in the presence of an recovering alcoholic struggling with temptation, we would not drink at all. We then give up our Christian freedom in the presence of that person for their sakes and benefit.
The OT food laws were for the Jews. The NT doesn’t require the food laws. Jesus said it is not what goes into the stomach that makes us unclean, it is what comes out of the heart. So in a sense, the old testament food laws could have been a shadow of the reality found in Christ.
The Papacy on the other hand claims infallibility in matters of doctrine. Therefore you must believe what they teach without questioning it. If the Pope is infallible, he is putting himself in place of God for only God is infallible. What does the Bible say about the antichrist?....it says: “he sets himself up in God’s temple, claiming himself to be God”
The Papacy calls itself : “the vicar of Christ” Do you know what “vicar” means? It means “anti”. Therefore this statement “the vicar of Christ” means “ antichrist”
The Pope doesn’t claim sinless perfection but he does claim infallibility in matters of doctrine.
Boy you sure have believed a lot of Satan’s lies.
Like I said before, you have just won the lottery, Jesus bought you the ticket and you can know you are going to heaven. That is the prize! Believe it and it is yours! Not hard at all!
Like I said above, all you have to do to go to heaven and avoid Hell is believe that Jesus has given it to you. Not hard. Hell threats are for those who reject belief in this message.
Am I worried about Hell? No, not at all, it is all in the past. For there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
You have better evidence than did Thomas. We now have the completed word of God.
If you would just open your mind to finding truth in it instead of battling against it, I think you would be amazed!
Jesus said: “ oh how I longed to gather them together as a hen gathers her chicks but they were not willing”
There is a difference between church’s and the Bible warns us to watch out for wolves in sheep’s clothing, to watch our for false prophets. The Bible teaches us to search the scriptures every day to see if what someone is saying is true or not.
This religion is true because it has a God of love, first loving us by giving us the gift of eternal life in heaven without condition, while we were yet wicked. Love must be unconditional for it to be true love.
Strayed? Or stood up and apposed those who weren’t following the truth. Who tried to lead the Catholic Church to repentance and since the Catholic Church was unwilling to repent. I am getting the sense that you once were Catholic? I have a friend who was Catholic, he hates God too now. Why? Because he didn’t get into the Bible like Luther and challenge the teachings of the Catholic Church. My Lutheran Church teaches me to test them!
Believer’s don’t fear Hell. Unbeliever’s should fear Hell for it is the destiny they are choosing for themselves.
No, the Unabomber can not do anything to please God. The Bible says: “without faith it is impossible to please God” So only believer’s can have the proper motive.
If Satan can prove that that chasm exists between the righteous and God, then mankind is without hope. But the titanic suffering that Job endured is a testimony that once you know the love of God, and understand it, nothing will keep you from wanting to be righteous. God’s love is greater than any suffering.
Correction. The tree of good and evil is not knowledge of good and evil as you think. It is choosing for ourselves what we think is good or evil.
Where there is truth from God, there you will also find Satan trying to destroy the work of God. And he has been quite successful at it in your case unfortunately.
Again, you have been misled and are believing lie’s about Jesus breaking the commandments. You have been fed lie’s about everything you believe about God. No wonder you hate God, the God you hate is not the one true God.
Isaiah 1:18 " Come now, let us REASON together,"
says the LORD.
"Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.
Member of WELS