Proof that God exists, without faith
Offline I originally heard of the RRS, through the proof of God's existence without faith debate RRS vs the way of the munters
I decided to work out if this was technically possible before the debate took place, and I succeeded I think . in another forum, knowing the way the Internet works this may have cropped up already but just in case it hasn't here it's is
Fundamental questions that nobody can answer... until now
This answer pre-assumes that what we perceive as reality is reality
Question .... does God (intelligent creator of everything) exist ....... Answer... yes
And here is the proof
The universe in which we live. is an enclosed system.The properties of everything in the universe .. are the properties of the universe and vice versa
There is gravity in the universe .... the universe has gravity...... the universe is gravitational
There is intelligence in the universe .... the universe has intelligence .... the universe is intelligent
Universe = intelligent
Universe = creator (the universes existence has created the opportunity for life ect ect )
Universe = everything
Universe = intelligent creator of everything
God = intelligent creator of everything
Universe = God
God = Universe
The description of intelligent creator of everything. only works from the point where intelligence emerges in the universes existence
Of course you could also use these parameters to prove the universe is a bowl of minestrone. this wouldn't cancel out the above proof it would simply add to it.
? could somebody show me the error in this ( this is just a piece of fun 
and should not be taken seriously by any theist because this God has an IQ of approximately 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.1
and he/she/it has fleas )
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I don't know where you get that from. There are many things that science claims exist that we cannot percieve with our senses, any subatomic particle for example.
What we do rely on is objective repeatable evidence. This is because anything else will lead everyone to come up with their own contradictory realities and we would have never gained any understanding of the world.
proove it. It you think science is fundamentally flawed then this is something that we should do something about.
Isn't that one of those five sense you don't trust?
But the voices in my head just tell me I should kill everyone because they are all out to get me.
The problem is in the point of view. Where you see complexity that could have only be designed I see complexity that could have only developed though natural processes without the interference of intelligent beings.
From my point of view natural processes produce much greated complexity than any intelligent being we have seen is capable of. The human body is well beyond the complexity of anything we (the most intelligent species we know if) can build so I think nature can produce more complexity than intelligence.
Naturally you, assume that god designed man an thus it was intelligence that designed all the compexity in the world.
Either way it's circular and bad logic.
I go with the natural explanation because we can observe the processes that create the complexity with no intelligent influcence required. If you can show me step where the hand of god is required to infulence complex natural processes then I'll accept the teleological argument.
Covered teleological arguement above.
by cosmology I assume you mean the first-cause argument. Unfortunately that argument contradicts itself. First it says everything needs a cause but then claims that god exists without a cause. Fery simply if it is possible for something to exist without a cause then why can't the universe exist without a cause? If it is impossible to exist without a cause then what caused god?
I covered first cause under cosmology, what other logical arguments do you have?
We are social animals, evolution is enough to explain ethics.
Examples please. this is not evidence, this is assertion.
Proove that Jesus was resurrected. The bible is not proof of this, otherwise you'd have to accept the mythology of every other religion by the same standards of evidence.
covered under ethics
Show me a miracle that stands up to objective testing. Until then it's personal experience and I have no reason to believe until one of the miracles happens to me.
Why does life need god?
Once again, an assertion, not evidence. Show me how existence is evidence of god.
I still have my sense of wonder. If anything, belief in god destroys that wonder. When looking at the complexity of the nature I can marvel at the natural processes and learn about how they occur. You can only say 'god did it' and move on.
Before science and education men and women everywhere believed in gods because they did not have the understanding of the natural world to explain it without invoking magic.
the purpose of science is not to provide meaning. It is to provide understanding.
All that has happened is that people have realised that the 'meaning' they were fed for centuries was based on a lie. They are now free to find their own meaning in life. This freedom scares some people but the fear is better than the lie.
Yes, I think the church would be happy if we returned to ignorance, thus giving it the absolute authority over our lives that it once had.
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
Quick response, there is no scientific evidence showing that natural processes produce intelligence. You have left science at this point and invkoked faith. As for the resurrection of Christ, there is no reason to reject the biblical account since it was written by people who witnessed the resurrection. Also, the existance of the Orthodox Church proves the resurrection. It dates to the time Jesus founded his Church. And the Church is based on the resurrection.
The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator -- Louis Pasteur
I didn't ask for something that science has not yet explained, that is a god-of the gaps and that god will contine to shrink as we fill those gaps.
I asked for a process that you can show requires intelligent supernatural intervention, not one we don't fully understand at the moment.
What do you mean by intelligence? Do you mean sentience or intellect? We have theories about both, those relating to intellect are more devoloped as far as I know but neither need god.
Nope, saying "I don't know how this works yet" is not faith, It's aknowledging ignorance but looking for the answer, this is the opposite of faith.
Reasons to doubt
1) It contradicts our understanding of death
2) It relies on anecdotal evidence
3) It's only reported in one source
4) It's non-repeatable
5) The explanation makes no sense - God created man specifically designed to sin (he's omnipotent and omniscient, so he knew what he was making and could have made us otherwise) Then comes to earth in human form by one part of him (the holy spirit) impregnating a virgin (also volating what we know about human reproduction) so that she would give birth to him (god is somehow his own father). He then dies for our sins (that he set us up to commit) but then his sacrifice doesn't mean anything because he (as he knew he would) comes back to life a few days later. In summary He made a fake sacrifice to free us from the sins he set us up to comit.
Someone with more historical knowledge than me can correct me but I was under the impression that the orthodox church exists because a roman emperor adopted christianity as the official state religion. Before that it was a tiny cult.
Which would make the othordox church proof of the roman empire, not the ressurection.
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
Dam court in a logic trap of my own design
decisions decisions, I'll concede color and retain proof of my dimwitted God 
Constantine the Great / Saint Constantine / Flavius Valerius Constantinus AD ca. 285 - AD 337
founder of the Roman Catholic church instigated the writing of the Bible, subsequently all forms of Christianity as we know them are spin off's from Constantine's ideas of Christianity
Christianity was founded by a bloodthirsty homicidal power hungry maniac, he was happily murdering and torturing anybody that he perceived as a possible future threat including his own brother-in-law, whilst declaring the ideals of Christianity, he was obviously inspired by God (go on cut their throats) good old Saint Constantine
I've heard many arguments against the idea that the universe or O is infinite. Also its kind of hard to claim a quality as infinite. The whole idea of infinite is shaky, but by definition. Its unending, outside our scope. With my problem you could have the number go on forever and for pattern you might get away with saying a pattern in infinite if the pattern simply goes on.
The big problem is that you are basically saying infinite apples is equal to infinite pain. Well of course this is false we all know it takes one apple to get infinite pain. Ok I'm joking with that one, but my point is that infinite qunities, size, or quilities are not nessarly equal just because they are infinite.
I used numbers because I thought it would make things a bit more simple.
Lets try another equation, but before I do I want to make a statement. It adds another layer on to this though.
I am a human named bob.
That statement is both the truth and a lie. I am human, but my name is stephen.
O = Me, bob, stephen, whatever (This would include my statements as they are a part of my mind and my mind is me.)
Q = falsehood
Now with the logic given by the problem I then become a liar. There is falsehood in me .... I have falsehood .... I am falsehood(liar) This also means I have sinned, but thats another issue. Now I have also told the truth so now I am also trustworthy using the same logic. There is truth in me .... I have truth .... I am truth(trustworthy).
Can a trustworthy person lie? Can a liar be trustworthy? Has anyone gone cross eyed? I realize the language there seems a bit off, but the ideas are the same just different applications of them.
Thanks for the info that I was too lazy to look up.
That goes really well with your avatar.
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
What an absurd archetype! Question: How would god appearing before anyone "force" them to believe? And why is it that god does not want us to believe in him?
My computer is in front of me - and i do not feel as though i have been cohearsed to "believe" in it - i simply accept that it is there. If, for whatever reason, I desired to believe my computer did not exist - I would simply leave the room - and pretend so.
So... how does god appearing (or otherwise leaving ANY evidence of its existence) "force" anyone to believe in it?
WTF? What evidence? Who taught me to "deny and ignore" evidence? I have perpetually sook evidence of god for many years now - I have NEVER "denied" or "ignored" evidence.
Pull your head out of you ass!
Well... I think now is a great time to call you out on your ignorance and bullshitting.... ever heard of neurology?
WTF? Please educate yourself before you spout naive and ignorant bullshit!
lol... you are considerably misled. there are NO first-hand accounts in the New Testament. Even the letters of paul are second-hand revisions. The gospels (assuming I were to give credit to the supposed authors - even in spite of evidence to the contrary) are third and fourth-hand accounts AT BEST.
Please research the history of Christianity before spouting this ignorant horseshit... your blindness to the history of Christianity is shocking!
The "Orthodox Church"? I'm assuming you're referring to Roman Orthodox? This didn't even exist by the 3rd century! Are you pretending Jesus lived to be well over three centuries old?
Another question: how does the Church "proove" the resurrection?!?!? Does the existence of a mosque proove the existence of Allah?
NP
I'm just naturally curious about everything. well apart from country and western music 
and I just love history especially roman and Greek history it's hardly surprising that Christian teachers don't teach the true origins of their religion it would be quite counterproductive but I have noticed on a personal level that Christians are being taught that Islam was founded by a bloody murder they seem quite keen in teaching this
My avatar ? do you think I should have brushed my hair
I would have to agree that I believe the use of infinite in mathematical models of our universe are devious, I also believe that there are no infinite,s in our universe .
"With my problem you could have the number go on forever and for pattern you might get away with saying a pattern in infinite if the pattern simply goes on"
That's was my next play, excellent anticipation
Mmmmm do you play chess ?
Well it looks like I've been court out for a duck
I'll try to think of a way out of this but in the meantime it looks like you've killed GOD Voiderest
not well
Don't give up this is intertaining with all that making my mind work.
Narco, if God appeared to you it would violate your free God given choice to believe. If He appeared, you would be forced to believe unless you were so stubborn and pig-headed to even reject His clear manifestation. God wants us to have faith in this life. The proof will come after faith. God wants us to work with what we do have. Now we only see the shadow. In the next world we shall see the substance--- God Himself.
As for the New Testament, I would think twice if I was you before opening that can of worms with me because I can easily and systematically shread everyone of your arguments. I've heard all the arguments before, and they are pure rubbish.
The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator -- Louis Pasteur
You are no longer talking about free will here. You are talking about some god given right to be ignorant and make stuff up.
Why exactly does God value ignorance and gullibility?
If I work by this theory then I need to test each religion, and the sects within each but giving each my unquestioning belief and waiting for the proof. How long should I give my brain over to each cult before I give up waiting for the proof and move onto the next one. what If I get to see 'proof' of one that disagrees with yours.
Oh, I have to wait until the next life to see the proof? So I only get to test one religion? This game doesn't seem fair to me.
Your overconfidence is your weakness.
Biblical errancy isn't my area but there are a few on this board that will destroy you if you take them on in this subject. Unfortunately I'm guessing that you, like every other christian, will leave the debate completely oblivous to the fact you have been totally pwned.
I'll get the popcorn ready, and hope one of the experts sees your challenge.
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
Dude paranoid, its not like god doesnt want to come up to you and see you, he does everyday, the universe is his work and you are his workmanship, God as a being is not "detectable" in Empirical Ways, in fact he incarnated his word and his logic into a man to come down and speak with us, Jesus, God isnt Hiding from you, you just fail to see him, God doesnt remain silent on issues, you just refuse to listen.
The evidence is all here, the cynic in all of you just ignores it? why do you ignore it? thats the question I have.
Why do you ignore all the evidence for God, like the forms and the universal order, why do you instead try to follow some theory about a "multiverse" (if you do indeed follow this, just giving a theory that people use to refute the balance) to explain the balance of our world, that is major ad hoc, to make up some theory just so u can ignore the truth of this universe, its retarded.
Praise Jesus!
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
Edit: Having two people post about the same post is kinda overkill. thiest, feel free to only responed to the simlar points once.
Ok so you say god want do this, I'm not going to ask how you know but thats kind of a cool trick.
Isn't that kinda like saying president visits me everyday, because saw him on the news o_O
So your explanation of lack of proof is that we shouldn't have it?
Ok on first glance hearing voices would make me think there is some kind of mental problem, but we can messure sound so that would be empirical...
For all this evidence I'm kinda wondering why ID isn't winning over the scientific community...
You are just rambling on here. This is like me saying I have an argument that can win everyone over, not really giving it, then ask why you are ignoring all the proof.
If he wanted do then he would, he's onmipotent isn't he?
He's not doing it very well. I mean I may have been out to luch one or two of the days he came to visit but what are the odds that he'ss missed me every day for 25 years? I'd think an omniscient being would know where to find me anyway.
Then he's a shoddy craftsman... just look at everything that goes wrong with the human body. What sort of warranty do we come with?
If he is not detectable in empirical ways he has no infulence on phsyical reality and so is at best irrellivant. If he influenced the natural world that influence would be empirically detectable.
Do you believe everything you read? Ever read Lord of the rings? do you believe in Gandalf?
He's omnipotent. If he wanted to be seen he would. If he wanted to be heard he would. The only logical conclusions I can draw on this are either he doesn't exist or he doesn't want us to know about him. As ther are people who think they do know about him I'd say that he failed if he didn't want us to know about him. But once again he's omnipotent so he could not have failed at that so that leaves me with only the one option - God (atleast an omnipotent one, who cares one way or another whether or not we believe) does not exist.
Where? oh did I miss it again?
It's skepticism, not cynicism that makes me 'ignore' your evidence. There's a difference.
A Skeptic refuses to believe something until sufficient evidence has been presented. A cynic assumes the worst, with or without evidence.
The standards of evidence we set are not just rules we made up so that we can ignore god. They have been developed within science and logic as the only consistent way to gain objective knowledge about reality.
Imagine this: Someone tells you they had just met a fairy who told them that the world would end on friday and the only way to save yourself was to buy some magic fairy dust from them for $5 000. What evidence would you ask for before handing over the money? You'd need some pretty serious proof wouldn't you? And rightly so. We expect the same level of proof for your claims, but you provide as little as the guy selling fairy dust.
Because that is not evidence. We have well tested theories about the way things occur and none of them require an all powerful being.
To add god to these would be as ridicoulous as saying the moon is held up and carried through space by a team of invisible flying unicorns. We know that inertia and gravity are enough to keep the moon orbiting the eath so why invoke magic? It certainly isn't evidence of invisible unicorns.
I don't "follow" the multiverse theory, I dont follow and scientific theory. Science is not something to be followed. All science has is the best explanation we currently have for the evidence we currently have.
What balance exactly do you think is the big problem for a universe without god?
no
Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
I'd hate to get associated with making anybody think, it would ruin my Street-cred
Let me see I could go with non-llocal realism and quantum entanglement
God has been resurrected
But it will make your head spin at least, and will probably drive you mad
aye look at me as proof of this
Just to respond to some of your comments.
You need to use your minds Eye to see God.
Let me show you how belief in God leads to knowledge of God.
Imagine this,
A trustworthy individual, who was shown trustworthy by his actions and his upholding his promises, tell you that their is a hidden treasure buried on a beach nearbye.
So believing that this individual is honest and trustworthy you go out ans start digging holes on this beach, seeking and seeking, digging and digging, but after half a day you find nothing.
Now most of you on this site give up and say, "I lack a belief in the treasure!" and start creating ideas of why their nevar was a treasure.
Now the diligent and patient seeker who trusted wholeheartedly in the individual who related this information of the treasure seeks day and night, diligently, for weeks, and the weeks turn into years, eventually the entire beach has been dug up, and then he finds the treasure.
Now the seeker "knows" the treasure does indeed exist, and goes around gleefully and praising the individual who related this information about the treasure to him.
In the same manner Beleiving in God leads to Knowledge of God.
The Treasure in the Kingdom of God, The entrance to this Kingdom is inside of you, come join me.
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
Hi thiest
Wasn't that lovely
But if the beach is knowledge, you'll find most of the atheists have covered the entire beach several times with metal detectors
I suspect you are still trying to dig a hole with an imaginary shovel
let me show you
? what do you kown about Constantine ? the founder of Christianity
And second this question, why do you think the atheists here kown so much about him
The Beach is the Universe, the Treasure is the Knowledge of God.
Oh and about Constantine Foudning christianity, let me show you something.
Let me liken the Gospel to a Baseball Bat.
So God gives is this Cool Toy that we have fun with and We play with as Children and from playing this "sport" we learn things from experience.
So Constantine Takes this "Baseball Bat" that god gave us to Learn through experience of using "it".
Constantine Takes the "Baseball Bat" and used it to beat the shit out of his comrades so he can overpower them, he abuses the "baseball bat" and uses it for his evil desires.
Now does that make the "baseball Bat" Evil?
or does it make Constantine ways Evil?
Do not confuse Misapporopration of the Truth with the Truth itself.
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
It is Saint Constantine's baseball bat, no Saint Constantine no baseball bat
? And you haven't answer my question's
Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus[2] (27 February c. 280[1] – 22 May 337 AD),
Ummmmm might want to go look at the date of origen of the "baseball Bat" buddy.
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
Hay you found wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I
? did you read this ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I#Constantine_and_Christianity
There is more ? would you like to discover more
Still waiting for a answer to my question
dude, are you like retarded or something?
the founder of christianity is Jesus, not constantine, did constantine write the parables of wisdom from God, did Constantine create the judaic sect of christianity as talked about in the Talmud!
hell no he didnt, in fact
constantine said all his success was "from" the High god that JESUS spoke about.
stop being a ignoramus
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
Thiest, history is wonderful
Please take some time to do some research
Constantine is responsible for the Roman Catholic Church, thus Christianity as we know it today
Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
That's where the first Bible was put together
Please take the time to do some research, and to validate this
Talmud Shabbat 104b, Sanhedrin 67a
It is taught: R. Eliezer told the sages: Did not Ben Stada bring witchcraft with him from Egypt in a cut that was on his skin? They said to him: He was a fool and you cannot bring proof from a fool.
Ben Stada is Ben Pandira.
R. Chisda said: The husband was Stada and the lover was Pandira.
[No,] the husband was Pappos Ben Yehudah and the mother was Stada.
[No,] the mother was Miriam the women's hairdresser [and was called Stada]. As we say in Pumbedita: She has turned away [Stat Da] from her husband.
Sanhedrin CONDEMMMING JESUS.
What of R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah?
When John [Hyrcanus] the king killed the rabbis, R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah [and Yeshu] went to Alexandria of Egypt. When there was peace, Shimon Ben Shetach sent to him "From me [Jerusalem] the holy city to you Alexandria of Egypt. My husband remains in your midst and I sit forsaken."
[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] left and arrived at a particular inn and they showed him great respect. He said: How beautiful is this inn [Achsania, which also means innkeeper].
[Yeshu] said: Rabbi, she has narrow eyes.
[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] said to him: Wicked one, this is how you engage yourself?
[R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] sent out four hundred trumpets and excommunicated him.
[Yeshu] came before [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] many times and said: Accept me. But [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] paid him no attention.
One day [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] was reciting Shema [during which one may not be interrupted]. [Yeshu] came before him. He was going to accept [Yeshu] and signalled to [Yeshu] with his hand. [Yeshu] thought that [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah] was repelling him. He went, hung a brick, and bowed down to it.
[Yeshu] said to [R. Yehoshua Ben Perachiah]: You taught me that anyone who sins and causes others to sin is not given the opportunity to repent.
And the master said: Yeshu {the Notzri} practiced magic and deceive and led Israel astray.
JESUS DEATH IN TALMUD!
JEWISH HOLY BOOK!
It is taught: For all others liable for the death penalty [except for the enticer to idolatry] we do not hide witnesses. How do they deal with [the enticer]? They light a lamp for him in the inner chamber and place witnesses in the outer chamber so that they can see and hear him while he cannot see or hear them. One says to him "Tell me again what you said to me in private" and he tells him. He says "How can we forsake our G-d in heaven and worship idolatry?" If he repents, good. If he says "This is our obligation and what we must do" the witnesses who hear him from outside bring him to the court and stone him. And so they did to Ben Stada in Lud and hung him on the eve of Passover.
It is taught: On the eve of Passover they hung Yeshu and the crier went forth for forty days beforehand declaring that "[Yeshu] is going to be stoned for practicing witchcraft, for enticing and leading Israel astray. Anyone who knows something to clear him should come forth and exonerate him." But no one had anything exonerating for him and they hung him on the eve of Passover.
Ulla said: Would one think that we should look for exonerating evidence for him? He was an enticer and G-d said (Deuteronomy 13:9) "Show him no pity or compassion, and do not shield him."
Yeshu was different because he was close to the government.
JESUS IS FOUNDER OF CHRISTIANITY NOT CONTANTINE, dude.
much love brothers
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
Rev Develin, u are an idiot.
are you not listening?
constantine is not the founder of jack shit, he is merely the first christian emporer, shut up dude, u make no sense, and yes history is the shiznit!
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
? and where did this information come from the Bible
? and where did the Bible come from Constantine
Results 1 - 10 of about 215,000 for Constantine the founder of Christianity. (0.30 seconds)
looks like everybody's wrong, and you kown better
Maybe you should contact these historians and tell them how stupid they are
Ps the name is Reverend Devilin I am an ordained minister of the church
ops my apologies theist you were quoting form the Talmud not the Bible
A person doesn't need to believe in something to be convinced through proof that such a thing does exist. In the Cryptozoology field people work to get proof of animals people once thought were excint. Although most of them don't get very far with it there have been a few discovories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coelacanth
Your little story is nice, but like I said it does not take faith to have something proven. This is like saying I have to have faith that my car will work or it won't.
The bible does not come from Constantine, he did not write a single page in that book, it was merely cannonized under his leadership and if you will read the bible you will see this is the work of God.
13 Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, [2] whether it be to the emperor [3] as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants [4] of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.
Also about jesus being hung on a tree from the same letter of peter.
Acts 13:29 (Show me Acts 13)
And when they had carried out all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.
1 Peter 2:24 (Show me 1 Peter 2)
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
Galatians 3:13 (Show me Galatians 3)
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—
1 Peter 5:1 (Show me 1 Peter 5)
Shepherd the Flock of God
So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:
2 Peter 1:16 (Show me 2 Peter 1)
Christ's Glory and the Prophetic Word
For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
So loook i have EYE Witness accounts of jesus death and his Glory!
Also the JEWS even testify of his Death!
why would the JEWS do that!
becasue its flippin true!
Do not listen to a bunch of old cynics, seek the truth of the universe!
GOD!
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
Also, sorry i called u an idiot rev devilin, i get hasty sometimes, and also voiderest.
It is impossible to have faith without reason.
Everyone who has Faith has a Reason for their Faith, be it the Quran, Jesus Christ, or any other religion, their is a REASON that they BELIEVE the things they believe.
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
A good reason?
Before you said if people believe then proof comes. That doesn't sound like reason to me.
Btw when I use the term reason I mean rationality. The idea of rationality is very different from a rationalization or a reason.
The coming of proof gives people a reason to belive, ok rationally, lets look at it.
Rationally, if The true Speech of God and logic of God came to Earth and Canrated in a human, then that Man would accomplish some mission that God has ordained, This Man who is a mortal, would complete the mission as a mortal, with all fellings and all thoughts of a mortal, Jesus dieing is a sign to the believers, he gave up all, he was not God as it is written,
Matthew 24:36 (Show me Matthew 24)
No One Knows That Day and Hour
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,[1] but the Father only.
Mark 13:32 (Show me Mark 13)
No One Knows That Day or Hour
“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Isaiah 53:10 (Show me Isaiah 53)
Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him; he has put him to grief;[1] when his soul makes[2] an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Jesus is not God, nevar is it said in scripture or neither did he say he was God, it is foolishness to think jesus is God.
Jesus died as a Man, scared, axcnious, in extreme diswantounesss.
Rationality, you say, I will rationolize God.
God is the Father of all creation, the orderer of the order of the universe, show me some other that can Order a universe and I will stop knowing God exists! but you cant, you can only show me ignorance, which is foolishness, the human mind being connected to the universe is proof enough that I am correct, I am one with the universe for my being is connected by physical bonds, i am one with the father, and the father resides in me, that is how i know these things, from my Creator, the father, who i love, his plan is awesome and he will destroy your false wisdom, i need only wait, but i am here as a plain warner, and a plain explainer, to you, voiderest, and to you brian, and to you susan(who looks about 30 years of age? how are you in yer 50"s?) please dont belive me, but believbe the works of the universe, the works of the father that u observe, do it!
in remembrance of the logic of God!
From God, God Formed Ether, From Ether, God Formed Energy, From Energy, God Formed Matter, From Matter, God Formed Mind, From Mind, God Formed Mankind, From Mankind, God Formed God.
Ok so then you need to show there is a mission and god told us.
A man dieing isn't proof for a cause or knowledge his might believe is true.
I'm not sure where this is coming from... an atheist isn't going to be running around claiming person X is god...
The term rationalize is probably a bad term to use, but I get what you are trying to say.
"I will show you god is rational" is probably a better phrase to use as rationalize implies a mental defense mechanism.
This is nothing more then an argument from ignorance.
You got it. Ignorance is kinda foolish, however ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge and learning removes that. The aspect of offering other explanations for aspect of the universe is another topic though. Here is one.
umm it really depends on what you mean connected. If you mean I can get info about the world around me, no. If you mean something along the lines of telepathy you need to prove it.
A physical connection to the world around you is not proof for a god... The physical is what is real and can be explained through science. For a connection to be meaningful it needs to extend beyond that realm.
Please don't tell me you your proof for god is revelation...
As an explainer you aren't really doing that well theist, sorry.
Asking a women about her age usually equals badness >.<
If you mean creation ID doesn't hold any weight theist and saying look harder doesn't get anywhere.
Constantine merely canonized St.Constantine created Christianity/The Roman catholic church as we known it today,
Constantine was the head of the Roman Catholic church which he created, the first Pope no 1 número uno the big cheese, the Bible was created under his instructions for the purpose of uniting the Roman Empire under himself, he was not some small part of its creation, this is all documented history, ignore it if you will, but don't try to rewrite the history of Christianity into some fluffy bunny peace and love fairytale, it was created by a homicidal power hungry maniac for a specific purpose
The work of god ...... "amen" ...... "amen ra" the Egyptian sun god "ra" . amen ra was said at the end of religious services for the sun god "ra"
Look it up on the search engine,
Understand the similarities, death resurrection and so on
if you read history you will see you're worshiping the sun/son and If you wish to believe that a giant fusion reactor (the sun) wrote a book telling you to summit to the authority of the church/leaders, and give them 10% of your annual income to make sure the sun/son continues to rise every day
then the word gullible seems far to mild
Constantine merely canonized St.Constantine created Christianity/The Roman catholic church as we known it today,
Constantine was the head of the Roman Catholic church which he created, the first Pope no 1 número uno the big cheese, the Bible was created under his instructions for the purpose of uniting the Roman Empire under himself, he was not some small part of its creation, this is all documented history, ignore it if you will, but don't try to rewrite the history of Christianity into some fluffy bunny peace and love fairytale, it was created by a homicidal power hungry maniac for a specific purpose
The work of god ...... "amen" ...... "amen ra" the Egyptian sun god "ra" . amen ra was said at the end of religious services for the sun god "ra"
Look it up on the search engines
Understand the similarities, death resurrection and so on
if you read history you will see you're worshiping the sun/son and if you wish to believe that a giant fusion reactor (the sun) wrote a book telling you to summit to the authority of the church/leaders, and give them 10% of your annual income to make sure the sun/son continues to rise every day
And ? would you like to join my church I perform all the correct rituals ps god told me to tell you you must sacrifice 10% of your annual income to him/me
theist vs theist
sweet
Sarcasm vs theist
I am the Reverend Devilin an ordained atheist minister of the ucl and I'm here to testify,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsfVw9xxoNY