Feeling really depressed
Offline After once again trying in vain to convince a theist of how irrational their views are I am feeling extremely depressed. The ass backward way of thinking that creationists spread such as comparing humans to a coke can or using a banana is really getting me down.
I'm depressed because humanity is ripping itself to shreds over illogical belief systems.
I'm depressed that my mother believes in the bible with unshakeable confidence.
I'm depressed that so much bad logic is to be found in most people.
I'm depressed that many religious people will immediately shut down any conversation that has a good chance of pointing out the flaws in their logic.
I'm depressed that when two people argue over anything they walk away convinced they are right and for the vast majority of the time don't even research what they were arguing about to see if they really are right.
I'm horribly, crushingly depressed right now.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
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I wish I could say something that would make it feel better, but you're completely right.
I'm reminded of the groundbreaking study when they learned that depression is not, as previously thought, feeling low as a result of misunderstanding reality. Rather, it's often marked by a very lucid and accurate understanding of reality.
Sometimes, I despair over the same things. Sometimes it makes me angry. Usually, the only thing that helps is spending time with people who get it, and realizing that there are millions of us. The only way to make things better is to keep plugging away, and that keeps me motivated, even when I'm feeling down about it.
Try to keep yourself focused, and use all that negative emotion to find determination. If it doesn't work, have a beer. That always helps me.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Hambydammit has it right. Your saddness and indignation is your blessing.
Geez, even that Jesus it is written said,"blessed are the poor in spirit", cause ya care.
...and "I did not come to bring peace but a sword"
The sword is indignation and intense debate.
As an atheist I use that Jesus and Buddha alot ....
Atheism Books.
I think any attempt at arguing with most theists will be an exercise in frustration.
I content myself with the thought that the number of atheists is only going to increase (and greatly so) as the years go by. Look to the future. You should be spending your time talking to kids about atheism, not adults.
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
I was 28 the last time I fought for the theist position.
I turned atheist at 30.
But yeah, I've got three girls to raise. And I'm going to teach them how to think.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
It is difficult, but it's good to know where to pick your battles. Since many people think having faith is some great virtue, it's easy to understand why they do not respond to evidence and rational arguments. Until they are open to that line of reasoning, it may not be worth the headache. If you have presented a good case and they still don't get it then it's usually a good idea to move on.
I see your point but I don't want other adults teaching their kids this theistic nonsense.
I am depressed because this whole world is really in danger because of these beliefs. I recycle, I volunteer time, I donate things I no longer need/want, I vote... however the biggest threat to humanity, as I see it, is theism. This is, IMO, the most worthy cause out there.
I will echo Hamby though - it helps to be around atheists. In the past two weeks the least depressing moments I have had were a halloween comedy event where I saw Pastor Deacon Fred, and a dinner/discussion with a large group of Brights. If you're not already involved in local meet-ups with other Atheists I would recommend it.
At the end of the day, though, despite feeling like it's a lost cause we have to keep trying. Sometimes the fact that it seems so insurmountable makes me work harder.
I can't find any here. I did a search for atheist groups and found one mention of a website. The website is no longer in operation.
You guys are all I have.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
That really sucks.
One other thing that helps me is to remember that there is a lot going on besides the atheist/theist struggle. Normally, when I hang out with other atheists, we talk about pretty much anything but religion. I find that the only way I can keep my cool is to leave the work at work, so to speak.
Maybe there are some friends who are not necessarily atheist, but don't give a shit about religion one way or another?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I assume you've tried meetup.com but figured I would mention it just in case...
How about looking for people to hang with that have other interests that are pretty secular. I like to go to astronomy events at the science museum once a month.
Cheer up, it could be much worst.
You could be a theist.
An Amish and be pushing plows in horseshit because thats what God wants you to do,
A Jehova's Witness doomed to go door to door annoying the hell out of people and trying to convert them,
A radical muslim strapping bombs onto yourself and getting on a bus to blow yourself up,
A radical right wing christian and devote your life to worrying that other people are sinning
A Priest and swear an oath of abstinence
A crazy person who believes god talks to them and tells them to kill people.
So while I understand your frustration be happy that you are not a theist, because no matter how depressing it is to be the only rational person around it is a lot better than being one of them.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
I found a local freethinkers group here! Thanks for mentioning the website!
It looks like it's less than two months old. That's why I didn't find it the last time I looked. They've only had one meeting. I can get in at pretty much the beginning of the group!
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
Here you go, Watcher. I found something to make you feel better.
Pew Research Center for the People & the Press
12% - Secular Americans
The number of Americans who say they are atheist or agnostic, or choose not to identify with a religious tradition has increased modestly over the past two decades, with Pew surveys since the beginning of 2006, finding that 12% of U.S. adults identify themselves as secular or unaffiliated with a religious tradition; that compares with 8% in the Pew values survey in 1987. This change appears to be generational in nature, with new cohorts coming of age with lower levels of commitment to a religious tradition. Among respondents born before the baby boom (that is, prior to 1946), only about 5% are secular or unaffiliated compared with more than double that number among Baby Boomers (11%). The most secular Americans are those 30 and younger -- sometimes called "Generation Y" -- 19% of whom do not identify with a religious tradition. Pew surveys taken over the past 20 years show that, within each age cohort, the size of the secular group has remained constant over time indicating that people have not become less secular as they have aged. For example, 14% of members of "Generation X" (born 1965-1976) did not identify with a religious tradition in 1997, about the same as in 2007. Democrats and independents are less likely than Republicans to identify with a particular religious tradition, and the gap has widened over the past two decades. Currently, 5% of Republicans say they are atheist, agnostic, or decline to state a religious preference, which is the same percentage that did so in 1987. But the number of Democrats in this category is now 11%, up from 7% in 1987; currently 17% of independents are classified as secular, an increase from 9% in 1987. Read more
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
You're quite right that it would be a bad idea to teach children atheism as if it's some sort of dogma. I think that the most important skill that a parent can pass on to their children to prepare them for religion is skepticism. That's a skill that can be used all the time, even beyond religion.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
I agree. I don't think I should teach my girls atheism. I should teach them skepticism and logical thinking. I seriously doubt I have "figured it all out". I would love for my girls to grow up, come to me in my old age and confound me with their logic on how my beliefs are complete BS. I would be upset, but what I really want is to know truth, not peace.
"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci
Have you showed her anything from www.godisimaginary.com ? There is an amazing video about the bible and how it is repulsive. It uses examples in the bible to prove this. It actually shook the faith of my 70 year old grandmother when I showed her.
Yeah, I'm not planning on "teaching" my daughters atheism. At the end of the day, that's really no better than teaching theism. But rather, as Watcher says, teach critical thinking. Critical thinking will almost always lead to atheism. That seems to be how most people on here came to be atheists.
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
Atheism is the lack of belief in a personal god. I personally do not see anything wrong with teaching your children this.
I will be giving my kids something like this...
http://www.rationalresponders.com/richard_dawkins_letter_to_his_10_year_old_daughter_how_to_warn_your_child_about_this_irrational_world
The problem is that any belief taught like religion is taught is as fragile as religion. If your children learn to think for themselves, they are going to form their own opinions, regardless of what you have taught them. So it is a safer bet to help them develop their ability to respond to unfounded beliefs.
That being said, Dawkins's letter seems to be exactly the sort of thing that I am talking about. He's not handing his child a list of things to believe or disbelieve. Instead, he's showing her how sometimes people believe things for bad reasons, and explaining that it is important to expect evidence. He is, essentially, teaching her skepticism.
I think a person with no religion who has never been exposed very directly to it may be more susceptible to it than believers. For that reason, I think it is important to inoculate children against the naivety with which they might otherwise face religion.
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
I knwo how you feel. I'm surronded by christianity 24/7, and it gets a bit much. What can you do? I guess just try find others who share similar views and remember its all just mke believe anyway.
On the other note, I'm determined not to raise my children in any religion or lack thereof. I'll let them mke their own informed decisions, not brainwash them. If they want to be atheist, good.If christain, I'll drive them to church, if wiccan, buy them candles. I just want them to feel free in their decision and not have to lie about their belief, or lack of, like I do
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
Hi . . I hear you . . I also feel very depressed about humanity . . I care too much, that's why . . I am a spiritual healer, and I have a deep well of compassion inside of me . . but nobody wants it . . I finally got the message . . the idiots WANT to destroy themselves . . and if you try to help them in a neutral way, they try to hurt YOU . . people are just using faith / religion as an excuse to fight their own private wars with each other . . it's all about the fighting . . I used to think people were just doing what they were doing because they wanted to share the beauty of their beliefs with someone else, but if they wanted to do that, they would be open to other people's opinions and points of view, and wouldn't be trying to 'convert' you . . well, at least as a spiritual healer that does not ascribe myself to any faith, or even discount atheism (beacuse that is also a valid belief / non-belief) . . all I can say is, focus on your own life, don't choke on it . . and above all . . NEVER LET THE BASTARDS GROUND YOU DOWN!!! There is at least one person in this world that loves you the way YOU are on YOUR terms . . ME . . I LOVE YOU ALL . . PEACE OUT. Scrollweaver Pendragon
Scrollweaver Pendragon (not verified) Posts: 1041 Joined: 1970-01-01
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WTF?
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
I see
Joined: 1969-12-31The internet didn't even exist then, let alone this site. There was another one up somewhere else that said he joined sometime in 1930!
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
I see 1970-01-01. Sapient didn't even exist, let alone this site!
IMO, Why are they your problem exactly? That question was designed to be a answer.
You may reiterate with, 'well it's my mother', etc., but you've know for how long she was that stubborn way? Many years I presume, I see you have a child there, make sure their life is brought up in a environment where they have freedom of though, thats all thats nessisary, logically, to be honesty. Im sorry to say that the best way to show a fundamentalist how rediculous they are, is simply just to leave them behind the wave of society. Love them on a all new level, its the only hope They will dicipate as we show our children the whole picture..
Meh...give in to misanthropism and nihilism. No, really, I get the same way sometimes, as I think any rational person who is able to look at the world objectively does. It really does seem that ignorance is bliss, and I am starting to feel that intelligence is less evolutionarily adaptive than just being average and having the ability to put on blinders and not examine your surroundings. I wish I could do something to help, but unfortunately I can't even do that for myself. So, back to the misanthropism and nihilism...
Atheist Books
Life is what you make of it. Live so that you can be proud of who you are, and a good example to others, whatever that may mean to you. Stop trying to take responsibility for blind idiots. Enjoy yourself and show others that you can have a better life without delusions than those who do. Nothing else matters.
Above all, do not set yourself on fire.
-----
I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
- Douglas Adams, Salmon of Doubt
Well, if it helps, when I get depressed (or, more often, angry) over the same issues, I just either go and chill and read Uncyclopedia or something else equally funny and rediculous, and remind myself I'm taking things a tad too seriously. Hopefully the group you found will give you another outlet for this sort of unwinding.
It's not like there's an epic cosmic struggle for us to win or lose, here.
Of course it is. The average person will die of shock before they strike the ground when plummeting from an extreme height. Why? Their body really doesn't want to know what'll happen when it hits the pavement.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
I'm very sorry to hear that you are depressed man. The same things get me really dpressed to. Those negative feelings do give me the profound desire to see things changed and Im pursuing what I have chosen to try and help the situation. I'm not sure of a definate solution to this problem. People have indirectly said to me before that they just dont care about the truth. So i'm not sure what can be done. If you ever need someone to talk to, I'm usually on the internet. I dont know about you but it gets quite lonely sometimes being an atheist. Maybe we should all just band together and found a new town
I know what you might be feeling man. I think it has tore my entire family apart and they dont really even realize it. They arent very close at all. I have no father and the relationship between me and my mother has suffered tremendously because of religion. It has been the source of intense arguments all initiated by her. I can't tell her that I am an atheist because it would destroy her mentally and emotionally. I'm all she has and she will just never be able to understand this at the point her life, I think. Shes just too far gone so to speak. I also have never had a girlfriend in my life because I live at the bible thumping capital of the world. I had something special with someone until we got into an argument about religion...now things are just iffy between us. I've racked my brain in attempting to think of someway to reach this girl I love so much. I'm beginning to think its just a lost cause, even at her young age.
I think all we can do is stick together, be active in the areas we have selected, be kind and patient, and show them that we arent some evil people that want to take over the world.
Doubt is the root of all wisdom. - Unknown
Knowing will come from the practice of understanding - Myself
Okay, stop right there. The only people who seem to have the opinion that ignorance is bliss are people who work hard to look for what is true and good in this world. Maybe it seems like hard work, but I won't have you guys reverting to nihilism when there's so much to learn and so much good yet to experience.
I'm not just talking about hope, which is there. I'm talking about ... well, look at this site! How many people do you have coming on here saying, "Hey, I didn't think anyone else thought that religion was ridiculous! This is awesome!" We have the greatest bloodless crusade going!
Don't give up just because some people won't let go of mystical traditions! People suffer from depression whether they're educated or dirt ignorant. There are stupid depressed people - don't fool yourselves.
Not knowing stuff means you're not prepared, and mostly uncomfortable in most situations. Think of someone who can't read. Man, that must be uncomfortable. Nothing makes sense, you're in a communication blackout all the time, and you know people must think you're an idiot. Ignorance is bliss my ass.
I'm not taking this kind of talk from you people, especially when you're so obviously excellent.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Exercise!
The effects of exercise on the brain won't alleviate the irrationality or delusions of others, but it sure helps prevent all that crap from making messes in your own life. =^_^=
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
I just had a run-in with some dork from YT who thinks he has his God's ear too.
I told him the simple philosophy of Atheism: That it's a lack of a belief in any God or Gods, nothing more.
He has repeatedly called me a liar for saying that.
It's quite frustrating really.
Atheist, Logically-minded, Curious about the world around me.
I have a feeling that you have had much more of an impact on atheists than on theists. Before I stumbled upon the RRS I believed that:
1. Even though I don't believe in it, the Christian Bible could served as a moral guide.
2. I shouldn't criticize anyone's religion, because ... I don't know why, but I believed this.
3. That religion could be a source of peace.
4. That Christianity was somehow not soooo rediculous as some people made it out to be.
5. That faith should be respected.
I could probably add another ten points, but the point is that even though I didn't believe in a religion I still believed the crap surrounding it. I think sometimes it takes someone to cut through the bullshit (political correctness) and single something out for what it truly is.
I try to set me expectations (in respect to religion) as low as possible, because religion ain't going to disappear anytime soon. People mention 'Atheist Europe' often, but living in Germany now for over 4 years I've noticed that it isn't so atheist as everyone makes it out to be. It is definitely more secular than the U.S., but religion is everywhere to be seen. I still hope though that the U.S. can progress as far as Europe has come.
Readiness to answer all questions is the infallible sign of stupidity. Saul Bellow, Herzog
Good call. I'm going out for a run.
I think the U.S. can progress farer than Europe, you own a freedom of speech that in some European Countries has been never seen. You've got more tv channels, more newspapers, more press freedom and an incredible strenght.. you can actually say: "I do not agree with this or that idea"
Here in Italy many atheists and theists blogs and forums are being litterally confiscated by the telecommunications authority. Clericalism is a life-style for our politicians (and for citizens) who keep talking about some unknow christian origins, and the Vatican City is a sort of third chamber of the Parliament. You can't talk about atheism on TV shows because 90% of guests are always known chatolic "v.i.p.". They don't (They don't want to) let you talk about god, about Jesus, about the pope and his non-democratic authority. If i was american, i would feel free to show my opinion in front of 100.000 people.
I thought it was getting better now that Berlusconi is out of office. Are his friends still running the show? (I'm a big fan of Marco Travaglio.)
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence