...but there are many many atheists who have seen the research and know that Jesus Christ did actually exist.  They just don't believe he was anything more than another human in history.

awe magilum.  You're an intelligent person.  I know you're smart, but you disappoint me.  I don't know why you see my conversation with you as a "tact".  As if I"m trying to beat you in a contest of some sort. 

You're a smart person and I have respect for you. I've enjoyed our conversations present and past, but I expected better from you. 

The only "evidence" that has been presented to me in regards to Jesus not being who he claimed to be has been only speculation at best.  I have seen in the past evidences of Biblical accounts of Jesus and his life in non-religious scientific and historical documents. 

I have also seen a lot of speculative excuses on how the massive stone was really rolled away, and that regardless of being stabbed in the side and hung on the cross for 9 hours basically bleeding out completely, Jesus still could have survived.  No one comments on the fact that when Jesus was stabbed in the side, blood and water poured out indicating that the bodily fluids were starting to separate (a sign that a being has been dead.)  Along with many more about all of Jesus' life. 

One bigger issue I have is if the story was so fake, why did the Bible use women to account the fact that Jesus had risen.  Everyone who is up on the times of Jesus knows that women of that time had no credibility in the minds of men.   Therefore, the story should have quickly been dismissed as hearsay and nothing more. 

There never has been a dispute on whether there was many people named Jesus at the time, OR that there were faith healers all over the place.   The Bible accounts for many faith healings by Jesus' followers.  Also, the book of Joshua in the OT is actually Jesus in Hebrew.  Obviously a different Jesus than the Christ of the NT. 

There was much more to Jesus and his life than his "faith healings"  The Bible even accounts for Jesus saying miracles like healings can't prove to people he is who he is. 

  Of course jcgadfly,

BUT most all popular ancient myth has lots of worth while messages and insight as to our human nature of how we think etc.

I embrace ancient myth from our point in time,  with no superstition ..... Then I say wow, Jesus rocked , the bible sucks !  ETC etc .....    Hey, don't hate everything about our ancestors ..... We are ONE  !    

  Back to the OP, Yeah my good old mythical buddy, cool Jesus, nailed to a cross bugs me. I hate unhappy endings, when the hero needlessly dies .....   

you see him as needlessly dying.  You missed the point.  He died so that we may live.  Also, the story didn't end there.  I'm sure you heard that he rose from the dead. 

The sacrifice that was made was more that he humbled himself to the lowly role of a slave.  He gave his crown and power away so that he could be put through all the trials, tortures and scrutinies that people were going to put him through.  Unlike us, at any point during his whippings or time hanging on the cross, he could have said "screw this" and walked away, but he didn't.  The point of him dying and being raised from the dead was more so to make the point that he has dominion even over death.  It was the ultimate proof that he was who he was and that we truly could be saved through Him. 

Honestly, think about it.  He was beaten so bad, the Bible says that he was unrecognizable... THEN! he was put on a cross.  I'd say that's quite a sacrifice.  Even if I knew I was going to live through it, I'd say I'd still be sacrificing a lot. 

and from a father's perspective.  It was God that sent Jesus down to go through all this.  Imagine watching your only son get beat and tortured to beyond recognition by a bunch of people that didn't believe what he was saying.  From a father's point of view, are you sacrificing anything? 

I'd really like to see some of this evidence you claim "in non-religious scientific and historical documents"

Death from crucifixian was for the most part, a matter of positional asphixia, as the body grew weak from the pain, and fatigue overcame the will, the victim would slump down, effectively compromising the diaphram leading to suffocation. Not generally by exsanguination, or blood loss.

Uh, no. In my professional experience, such separation seldom occurs so quickly, if at all. I've worked with patients dead for a week or more with plenty of liquid blood available. In the case of suffocation death, most fluid accumulation would be in the lungs, the liver and the brain, little in the cavities. 

As I remember the story.... few DID believe them... and even when he appeared, many of the same people who had been sleeping under bridges with him for years didn't recognize him... Nice story, still don't believe a word of it. 

LC >;-}>

I apologize because I don't know how to make links to other blogs on this site yet, nor do I know how to find all my personal blogs without google searching them.  One blog you can check out is entitled God vs. Science.  I think I had referenced to some non-religious writings there.  I know I had other blogs, but I don't remember which had what.  What specifically are you looking for?

we know that's how he died, the point was, even if that wasn't the case, the fact that he had lost the amount of blood he did would prove that 3 days later he most likely would not be alive.  There was no such thing as blood transfusions back then. 

The issue was people try to make the excuse seeing the extra Biblical evidence of Jesus' life that he never actually died.  As you can probably tell, it's not logically possible. 

You are right to say it seldom occurs so quickly.  However, it has happened.  This isn't the basis of my argument either.  The water spilling out could have been from the stomach if that was punctured or another major organ.  Either way, it further proved his death.  The basic point, he died, then came back to life. 

to further my point, if it was made up, why would the story say stuff like that?  Wouldn't that be destructive to point out that first women saw his grave empty, they told people, but few believed them.  Then to top it off, the people who knew Jesus for years didn't recognize him.  Wow, it must not have been him then..

If I wanted people to believe it, I'd say the soldiers guarding the grave watched the stone roll away and saw Jesus walk out.  They quickly ran to tell the king the news.  In the town all who knew Jesus saw him walking and believed he was God.  There was a great celebration in the city for all knew the King had risen from the dead.  After the party, all watched him ascend into the clouds. 

That to me is a much more convincing "story".  this way, women who weren't seen as accountable anyway aren't even a factor in this story and it was credible sources that reported the happenings as soon as they happened.  Interesting it wasn't written that way. 

And so what? If I have drilled anything into your head, I hope it is this.

We can prove that Christopher Reeve existed. We can prove that the City of New York exists. But no sane person would pretend that a real man can fly like Superman.

There is no such thing as disembodied beings magically knocking up girls, nor can dead human flesh survive rigor mortis. It like saying that Jesus existed is like saying George Washington existed, so therefor George Washington can fart a full sized Lamborghini out of his ass.

Jesus's existence doesn't matter when it comes to the fantastical mythological claims of the bible. Water doesn't "poof" turn into wine. Dead bodies, and there is more than the story of Jesus dying and coming back to life, in the bible. That didn't happen.

Noah didn't magically make drones out of all the animals on the planet, and human flesh doesn't pop out of dirt suddenly as a grown adult.

IT IS MYTH, fairy tales and bullshit. Saying that Jesus existed is irrelevant. Mohamed allegedly existed, but you don't believe that you will get a harem of women in an afterlife.

Your myth is not special nor does it deserve any less criticism than claims of Vishnu or Thor. It is all the same made up crap.

If you should be angry at anyone, you should be angry at the people who sold you those fairy tales as fact, you should be thanking us for helping you escape your delusions.

It's not that hard to believe such a reaffirmation - especially when you intentionally disregard what has been brought to you..

There's no way to reason with someone so utterly convinced. It would be like trying to teach a person to read when they see no problem with their illiteracy (and, indeed, consider it the will of God).