Faith and the Atheist
Hello, everyone. I know this may not be entirely appropriate for a first (or second) post, and it may seem a little pretentious, but I'd like to know what you think of this "essay" of sorts that I've written. It's the widely debated topic of atheists' faith or lack thereof. Comments, criticisms, and suggestions are always welcome. Oh, and nice to meet you all!
(Edit: sorry about the italics, but I copied this from my myspace blog and the format's all screwy I guess.)
--- Faith and the Atheist ---
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."
-Hebrews 11:1
On more than one occassion, I have been accused of having faith by Christians. You've probably even heard some people say that they think it takes more faith to be an atheist. They claim that it takes faith to believe that god does not exist. Two kinds of people have made these accusations towards me - some who genuinely think that my "faith" in atheism is the same as their faith in god, and others who simply want to argue and try to make me into a hypocrite so that they don't have to seriously consider my criticisms or views. Nonetheless, how can believers tell me I'm wrong for having what they call faith? Faith is highly esteemed among them, and yet while pointing out that I have faith too, they simultaneously regard my particular brand of faith as being false and sinful. I opened with the verse above for the purpose of giving an example of how the Bible defines faith. Let's examine the atheist worldview and see if it truly coincides with the Biblical definition of faith.
I must begin by noting that this accusation makes one fatal, glaring error that stands out from the several others in it. It way over simplifies the concept of faith. Is having faith that your friend will stick up for you really the same as having faith in a god we cannot see? You can see your friend, you have interacted with your friend on many occassions, and there is no doubt that your friend exists. You have faith in your friendship with them, you trust that they will be there for you when you need them. This kind of faith is based on experience and physical evidence, the same as the faith we have that the sun will rise tomorrow and we will live to see another day. It's contingent faith, something we can't be 100% sure of, but we still trust in it because we've observed these things time and time again and have no reason to doubt them.
Religious faith (or non-contingent faith), on the other hand, as defined by Hebrews 11:1, is blind belief in that which we cannot see and it's having hope that our assumptions about god are true. Note how the verse uses words like "sure" and "certain" in relation to the concept of faith. Religious faith is quite different from non-religious faith. So what about the supposed faith that the atheist has? I will be the first to admit that there are atheists out there who are of the fanatical breed, who deny god without any real reason other than spiteful rebellion against parents, society or whatever. However, among the majority of atheists, you will be hard-pressed to find one who fits into the faith described by Hebrews 11:1. Are atheists sure of what we hope for? Are we certain of what we do not see? Well, what do we hope for and what are we certain of that we don't see?
Skepticism and atheism go hand in hand more often than not, and the purpose of being a skeptic is to question things seen and unseen. We hold the position that we can't be certain of what we don't see until we have some evidence for it. This is what I mean when I say it's contingent faith: it depends on evidence and support. As for what we hope for, we hope to find the truth, like anyone does, but once again, we come to no conclusions without examining the evidence and even then we may still find reason enough to doubt. So from the Bible's own definition, atheists don't fit the bill for faith. But I'll take this a step further even, beyond the Bible. What does it really mean to have faith that something does not exist? Is that kind of a double negative, perhaps?
From my own personal perspective, I would venture as far as to consent that atheists do have faith. Yet it's so significantly smaller than that faith of religious believers that it might as well be treated as no faith at all. Faith implies an active belief in something that you continually acknowledge and meditate upon, it's a conviction basically. I know it's a cliche example, but how much faith do you use to reject the existence of Santa Claus? Some Christians will say there has to be a creator because a painting has to have a painter. Well, by that logic, there has to be a Santa Claus, because those presents couldn't get under the tree by themselves. Of course, we all know the truth is that our parents put those presents there, but as children we don't know any better. Is it possible that we just don't know any better about our origins than to assume there must have been a creator? Our own inability to conceive of a universe like our's coming into existence without a creator is not reason enough for believing in a god. We don't have all the evidence yet, so we'd prefer not to jump to conclusions.
If atheists' disbelief in god is truly faith, then it could be equally arguable that believers lack faith that there is no god, and thus they don't have faith. To claim it takes more faith to be an atheist is also a very absurd statement. Bill O'Reilly made the mistake of saying such a thing to Richard Dawkins in an interview, clarifying his point by stating the old argument from design - "I look around at nature and the world and just don't see how it could all be an accident". Looking past O'Reilly's disgusting misunderstanding and over-simplifications of evolution and the Big Bang, I can say I used to feel the same way. But we should also realize what a bias we have, being the most intelligent species known in our galaxy and possibly our universe. Who's to say that we wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if the universe existed in any other way? Atheists look at the world too, but we see what we see and believe in what we can verify and observe. We don't see any design unless there's evidence of design. We don't see any gods unless there's evidence of a god. How is that faith?
Even the term "atheist" itself is a bit absurd. Why don't we have specific terms to identify people who profess a disbelief in ghosts or aliens or other supernatural phenomenon? Semantics aside though, I feel confident that atheism is not a religion, nor is it faith. But don't mistake this for a complete aversion to faith on my part, it's not faith I have a problem with. It's the blind, irrational religious brand of it that makes us atheists stand up and speak out. Because we see a lot more criticism directed at us from the "moderate" religious believers, and although they claim that believers are to be held to some higher standard, they rarely ever call out their own hypocrites and crazies on the bullshit they spew. So allow me to wrap this up with a much wiser quote from one of the true sages of our more recent history...
"To follow by faith alone is to follow blindly."
-Benjamin Franklin
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Faith to me is the belief in something when there's no evidence to support it or in some cases - contradicting evidence.
As you've said atheism and skepticism go hand in hand, most atheists were to some extent religious once and it was skepticism that got them out of it, but just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean that my skepticism is gone - I'm skeptic about everything, including atheism and given enough evidence I'll change my mind.
So no, I do not have faith because the way I see it, being skeptic and having faith at the same time is impossible.
I have had my share of people say the ever annoying"even atheists have faith" or "atheism is religion" to me. I tell them that a lack of belief is not equal to faith.To use an example I read somewhere(I think Dawkins) do you believe in fairies?No? Then do you have positive faith in their non-existence? Do you go to non-fairy church? In this way, atheism is neither faith or religion.(it is even more absurd to call it religion.Religion constitutes,classically, a set of rituals revolving around a deity.Atheism has none of these.)
Basically,alot of people have no idea what atheism really means.
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
This is along the same lines:
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/12784
Yes, I'm subscribed to the user who posted that on YouTube. Good video, though I honestly don't see much of a point in "personally believing there is no god". That would seem to indicate one's desire that there should be no god. I really don't care if there is or isn't, it's the evidence that matters to me.
That argument is an ad hominem tu quoque plain and simple. You're just like them, so your argument is magically nullified. The lack of logic in the general population is appalling.
Atheist Books
I'd completely agree. I'm one of those people who'd like to see logic classes make it into core curriculum for highschool students. I substitute teach and I'm deeply disturbed by some of the statements I've heard kids AND staff make.
Funny you replied though, Kelly. I just watched the debate between Brian, you, Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort. With no disrespect to Brian, you stole the show. You're incredibly bright for someone so good looking, but I'm sure you get that all the time, heh. Do you happen to live around Austin TX or maybe have a twin sister who does?
The whole problem with theist's trying to tell atheists that they have faith is the fact that atheists are only that in the presense of theists. If there were no theists, there would be no atheists. Which is why ive been thinking of calling myself an anti-theist, because im a negative to their positive.
No. If no one were a theist/deist, everyone would be atheist. Anti-theist would be against belief in god(s) basically.
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Faith is not a virtue.
When pointing out that others have faith is the best insult they can come up with, i tells you what they really think of faith....
"Hitler burned people like Anne Frank, for that we call him evil.
"God" burns Anne Frank eternally. For that, theists call him 'good.'
I think that's being disingenuous. There are some extremely intelligent theists and logically speaking, if atheism relied on faith, it would simply be no different.
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Faith is not a virtue.