el

oh

el

What exactly are your latest posts bringing to the table mr. hardcore.

I think he is just so damn proud of coming up with the "chump with chimp envy" phrase that he has to keep repeating it, with lots of garbage thrown in for good measure.

Dear Mind Over Matter,

1) Where did you get it that population doubles every 150 years?  It was 2.6 billion people on earth in 1950 and 6.7 billions in 2008.  This does not fit your assumption.

2) You can easily find that the world's population followed (at least until recently) a hyperbolic growth.  If you fit all available data then you get somewhere about 117 million people at ~ biblical time and about 30 million people at 8000 years ago.  Also, you will get about 4.6 millions at about 50000 years ago.  

3) You have mentioned that Cherenkov radiation proves that light can travel faster than 186 miles per second.  What you are saying is wrong.  Cherenkov radiation occurs in materials when particles move in that material at the speed that is faster than the speed of light in the material.  The speed of light in materials is slower than the speed of light in vacuum - 186 miles/second.  This seems to be known for almost 400 years.  

Best,

100%

I'm trying to be as "rational" as possible, assuming nothing but the lack of education about him.

Imagine, one day he becomes a nonbliever .... 

... well maybe it's already getting irrational.

robj101 wrote:He chooses to

new

 

He chooses to completely ignore famine and diseases, like the black plague and other fun events, and many other factors.  Back when a simple infection could kill and many women died in labor etc etc so many factors it just makes the 6000 year idea completely ridiculous.

 

I'm trying to be as "rational" as possible, assuming nothing but the lack of education about him.

Imagine, one day he becomes a nonbliever .... 

... well maybe it's already getting irrational.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------->

you are not rational if you state your pagan religion of evolution is based in the scientific method.

The theory of evolution has not yet been scientifically proved like, for instance, the existence of the moon and planets in their orbits. Evolution is still an hypothesis, an assumption, yet to be proved by scientific tests.

Human life is simply too short for scientists to test the hypothesis of evolution.

Even in a science as accurate as astronomy of the solar system some theories have proved incorrect since space exploration by man and unmanned space probes. Some fifty years ago scientists were sure Venus was a cold planet. Scientific measurements by unmanned Venus probes have shown this neighbour planet to earth to be an extremely hot planet.

How then do we really know what goes on inside stars that are many light years away and how can we think we know what happened at the start of the universe, now supposed to have occurred 10 to 20 billion years ago? Scientific pronouncements about these things are not really proven scientific theories, they are hypotheses, scientific assumptions.

The general public, however, believes that scientists have proved their ideas about stars, galaxies, the 'big bang', and evolution to be correct. This is a belief.

Around 1900 it was said that given the time that has been available for evolution to take place 'anything could have happened by chance': Even a monkey tapping away on a typewriter at random might by chance have typed the title of Darwin's book on evolution:

This sentence contains 22 characters including the spaces and full stop. Suppose the monkey's typewriter has only the 26 lower case letters, the space bar and full stop key, a total of 28 keys. Suppose our monkey can type fast, two keystrokes a second. The probability that the monkey hits the first letter, the t, correctly is one in 28 or

The probability that the monkey hits the second key, the h, correctly is also 0.0357142857143

According to probability theory one has to multiply these two probabilities to find the probability that the monkey hits both keys correctly.

So the probability that the monkey does that is: 0.0357142857143 x 0.0357142857143

The probability that our monkey types the whole title of 22 characters correctly by chance is: 0.0357142857143²²

So the monkey has to make 1.45386241863 x 10³² keystrokes before he is once likely to type 'the origin of species' correctly by chance.

Since we supposed our monkey can type two keystrokes per second it would than take the monkey: 1.45386241863 x 10³²/2 =

Dividing this by the number of seconds in a year: 60 x 60 x 24 x 365 = 3153600 seconds.
gives:
7.269312095 x 10³¹ / 3153600 = 2.305083744 x 10²⁴ years,
or expressed in billions:
2.305083744 x 10²⁴ x 1,000,000,000,000 = 2,305,083,744,000,000 billion,
or over
 

It would take the monkey that long to once, by chance, type the above sentence correctly.

However, scientists believe the earth is only 4.5 billion years old.

The earth should therefore have existed: 2,305,083,744,000,000 /4.5
= 5.12240832 x 10¹⁴

That is the earth should have existed over half a million billion times longer for the monkey to once type by chance the above 22 character sentence correctly.
 

Fact is the Earth has already been proven young by written history only going back about 4-5,000 years, with pre-flood lore bringing the PROVEN age of the earth to around 6,-10,000 yrs old

 Flood Legends- Many ancient cultures have stories of an original creation in the recent past and a worldwide Flood. Nearly 300 of these Flood legends are now known. and all show a common story of origin and events even though the original story has been embellished with each new distant culture

. The 20,000 PSI Oil Pressure found in oil wells would have leaked out LONG AGO if the earth were billions of years old. Scientists can get garbage and turn it into oil in a lab in 20 minutes so oil DOES NOT take even 1 thousand years to form.

   Mans drawings, carvings, & pottery of Dinosaurs interacting with man PROVES man lived with dinosaurs.

 The Earth slows down as it spins at a rate of a thousandth of a second. A million years ago the earth would have been spinning too fast for life on earth.

There is only a small amount of sediment on the ocean floor which indicates a Young earth,. If the Earths oceans were very old they would look more like shallow swamps from all the erosion washing from high points to low points over billions of years. The oceans low level of sediment, most of which was deposited during Noah’s Flood, proves a Young Earth.

The largest stalactites and stone formation in caves around the earth only show a few thousand years, like in the Sequoia Cave in Tennessee. Stalactites grow rapidly, at a rate of 1 inch every year; the largest stalactite shows to be about 4,400 years old. In Florida, there are stalactites of 16 inches growing from an electrical wire. Carlsbad Caverns long agers will say it took 250 million years to make this cavern. They say it takes 1,000 years to grow one inch of stalactite. A bat was covered up with flowstone before he could rot in Nat. Geo. Magazine Don’t you think the bat would rot in less than a few thousand years; preserved on top of a stalagmite, they grow even slower? There are 50-inch long stalactites growing under the Lincoln Memorial. It was built in 1922; did Lincoln die 50,000 years ago? .....

The Sahara desert is expanding. Once the soil is depleted, it is irreversible. The expansion rate is 4 miles per year at the present moment. At a rate of ¼ mile per year, the age of the Sahara proves Noah’s flood happened about 4,500 years old.

 The seas are getting saltier every year. If the Earth was billions of years old, the oceans would be too salty for any form of life by now.

 The current world population is 6½ billion. If we started with 8 people 4,000 years ago, this would give us a population of 6 or 7 billion which is about the number of people alive now. including the all the varibales such as war famine disease and eyewitness accounts /written records of people places and events

The oldest coral reef is 4,200 years old in Australia. Remember that they say Noah's Flood was about 4,400 years ago. If the ocean is millions of years old why are their no older reefs?

 The oldest living tree is about 4,300 years old.  named after  Methuselah a real person in recorded history

 The oldest known historical date is 6,000 years ago. The oldest written form is very complex indicating humans STARTED OUT with high levels of intelligence indicating ancient man may have been smarter than modern man.

 Folded rock formations found all over the world PROVE that all these rock formations were formed while still wet and dried very quickly proving sedimentary rock was laid down wet, folded by contitenental drift, and dried like concrete at very quick rates indicating quick formation instead the million of years as claimed.

 Polystrate fossil tree extend up through serverl layers of all different types of rock, sediment & sifted soil proving that they were laid down catstopically by a world wide flood which sifted the soil layers into varves very quickly instead of the claimed millions of years of deposition proving a quickly formed young earth.

Large Dinosaur bones sifted by flood waters lay above the much smaller dinosaur bones trick the unknowing into thinking these creatures came from two times when sifting by receding flood waters proves they were deposited by sifting all at the same time at different level due to their sifted size difference.

 According to experts most dinosaur bones ARE original bone, not fossil minerals indicating they were deposited much earlier than the claimed 65 million years ago per the Discovery Channel.

No scientific method can prove the age of the earth or the universe so you have to admit you need faith to believe what you say you know as fact.

your flaw is you have no conviction for your closet  pagan worldview and therefore you refuse to admit your faith while I admit mine.

we do have more than the scientific method. we have eyewitness accounts and written records of people places and events in real history that support the 6-10,000 year old earth.

Science is based on observation, and the only reliable means of telling the age of anything is by the testimony of a reliable witness who observed the events. The original holy scriptures of YAHUWAH claims to be the communication of the only One who witnessed the events of Creation:YAHUWAH the Creator HIMself. As such, the original scriptures is the only reliable means of knowing the age of the earth and the cosmos. not humanist scumbag theories of origins based in ancient pagan babylonian bullshit still practiced today by hypocrites.

The finding of pliable blood vessels, blood cells and proteins in dinosaur bone is consistent with an age of thousands of years for the fossils, not the 65+ million years claimed by the paleontologists. hence the sightings in cryptozoology. living fossils found in present day alive and well and unchanged or un mutated as you stupid liars like to preach with neo-darwinism.

DNA in “ancient” fossils. DNA extracted from bacteria that are supposed to be 425 million years old brings into question that age, because DNA could not last more than thousands of years. Lazarus bacteria—bacteria revived from salt inclusions supposedly 250 million years old, suggest the salt is not millions of years old.

The decay in the human genome due to multiple slightly deleterious mutations each generation is consistent with an origin several thousand years ago. This has been confirmed by realistic modelling of population genetics, which shows that genomes are young, in the order of thousands of years.

The data for “mitochondrial Eve” are consistent with a common origin of all humans several thousand years ago. Very limited variation in the DNA sequence on the human Y-chromosome around the world is consistent with a recent origin of mankind, thousands not millions of years.---

-Many fossil bones “dated” at many millions of years old are hardly mineralized, if at all. This contradicts the widely believed old age of the earth. Dinosaur,blood cells blood vessels, proteins (hemoglobin, osteocalcin, collagen) are not consistent with their supposed age, but make more sense if the remains are young.

Lack of 50:50 racemization of amino acids in fossils “dated” at millions of years old, whereas complete racemization would occur in thousands of years.

Living fossils—jellyfish, graptolites, coelacanth, stromatolites, Wollemi pine and hundreds more. That many hundreds of species could remain so unchanged, for even up to billions of years in the case of stromatolites, speaks against the millions and billions of years being real.

Discontinuous fossil sequences. E.g. Coelacanth, Wollemi pine and various “index” fossils, which are present in supposedly ancient strata, missing in strata representing many millions of years since, but still living today. Such discontinuities speak against the interpretation of the rock formations as vast geological ages—how could Coelacanths have avoided being fossilized for 65 million years.

The ages of the world’s oldest living organisms, trees, are consistent with an age of the earth of thousands of years.

you just ignore and rant when you should take heed of the evidence that is all around you of a mass excecution.

you are under penalty of death in a trial of mortality. do not forget that you desire to live when you are not grateful for the soul you possess!!!!

just meet my challenge using the scientific method!!!  oh thats right you are not qualified because you are a chump with chimp envy! and do not understand reality

I accept your ignore and rant psycho-babble as a typical atheist retreat like all the atheist monkey wannabes on this thread who love to daisy chain their posts stroking each others sour egos! 

please keep up the intelligent design to try and prove no need for intelligent design!!! it is all going on record! as you chumps like to retort.

Submitted by butterbattle on April 14, 2010 - 7:15pm.  what is information?      --------------------------> what is information? knowledge communicated or received  

 Proteins are so hard to make that in all of nature, they never form except in already living cells. Never! This scientific fact stands in stark contrast to what was taught. 

Evidence that life never comes from non-living materials is so abundant that it is a basic principle of science called the Principle of Biogenesis (living things come only from living things). Atheists and many agnostics have faith that contrary to this basic principle of science, life did evolve spontaneously from chemicals at least once. They now call their theory “abiogenesis” which comes from roots that mean “not Biogenesis.” They no longer use the term “spontaneous generation.”
 

there is more scientific evidence that life could not form without a Creator. RNA never forms except in already living cells: “… no one has yet succeeded in creating RNA.”  The fact that RNA is vital to the life of every cell, and cannot be made except by already living cells is powerful evidence against life forming without a Creator.

“… proteins fold into a highly complex, three-dimensional shape that determines their function. Any change in shape dramatically alters the function of a protein, andeven the slightest change in the folding process can turn a desirable protein into a disease.” Living cells fold such proteins in less than a second. This evidence shows that the One who invented the way proteins fold in cells is much more intelligent than the new super computer.

Proteins are not made where they will be used, and are worthless except in the one spot they fold to fit. How do proteins find their way? “… newly minted proteins contain an amino acid string that determines their eventual home.”The amino acid string which forms the address is usually added as a tail on the end of the longer string of amino acids which make up the protein. This tail has been compared to the address on an envelope.

put a bunch of your letters in the mail box without addressing them. If the right addresses were to form spontaneously, you would probably call it a miracle

Misplacing a protein is more serious than losing a letter, however. There are diseases where proteins are mistargeted in cells.  All available evidence indicates that creating and coding the correct information for each address requires intelligence.

Cells can’t live unless each of their many proteins not only folds correctly, but receives the correct address tag. When several things must be in place at the same time for an object to function, it is called “irreducible complexity,” and is evidence that it had a creator. 

The cell also needs the right amount of each protein.

If a first living cell had formed without a Creator, the cell would still have had to replace each of its proteins as soon as it wore out. If the cell did not contain the information to correctly turn on and off the production of the replacement proteins, the cell would have died as soon as the first essential protein wore out. This is evidence that there is a Creator who knows how to turn protein production on and off!

The proteins that make up cells will not form anywhere in nature except in already living cells. One reason cells can make them is because the directions for making them and for turning their production on and off are already present in the cell’s library of information called DNA. Once made, proteins could not function unless they were properly folded and addressed. Neither making proteins, folding, addressing, nor regulating their production could invent itself, yet no cell could live unless all were in place working together. These brilliant solutions are scientific facts and constitute evidence for a very intelligent Creator who plans ahead.

mind over matter wrote:you

 

you,  100%atheist drone hypocrite,  are not rational if you state your pagan religion of evolution is based in the scientific method.  pay attention to this copied and pasted universal fact,.....

The theory of evolution has not yet been scientifically proved like, for instance, the existence of the moon and planets in their orbits. Evolution is still an hypothesis, an assumption, yet to be proved by scientific tests.

Human life is simply too short for scientists to test the hypothesis of evolution.  ----------> something you fail to address in your  post / pathetic rebuttal about copy and paste and morals on stealing from my fellow believers who called to share info and to pick up their tools and bear witness to the CREATOR not HIS creation and to spread the WORD of eternal salvation from war famine disease and the final enemy DEATH

 

Ok. --------> no it's not ok you 100%atheist drone

So, what is that you want?------------->lol you chump with chimp envy,   I want you to shut up or meet my challenge to demonstrate  your ancient pagan religion of evolution using the scieintific method

I understand that we are different from monkeys. ---------->NO you do not since you believe that you share a common ancestor with them! you foolish 100%atheist drone

  For example, we don't need to type anymore.  All we need to do is Ctrl+C -> Ctrl+V.----------> lol no shit sherlock,  wow that is the best you can do to represent all the 100%atheist drone  bitchnuggets on this thread?

You are just copying this website 

http://www.creationism.org/heinze/SciEvidGodLife.htm  -------------<---------thanks for the reference again by your copy and paste you save me time and you serve my cause by sharing a link that is a dime a dozen and not relevant to the issue.

adding next to nothing of your thoughts.-------------------------------------><------------ they are my thoughts since they represent my views, I believe what I post and you have no imagination to counter what I have posted let alone pasted. noone is stopping you from posting info that represents your views or that backs up what you are trying to say in a short space and limited medium.

Doing so without reference is called plagiarism.

--------------------------------------------------->NO its called stating facts not copyright infringement you dumbass and of course you play dumb on the real issue

In this particular instance, you are stealing from your fellow believers. ---------->> no it is given freely  for the benefit of education unlike when you and your 100%atheist drone clown posse quote the same old  lies to prove billions of years and keep reciting your mantra of evolution based on anceint pagan babylonian humanist bullshit! on every aspect you are refuted and you still keep marching to your own chant about change over time through chance mutations and selection by your pagan mother(who you worship as nature) if you would just admit your faith in your pagan religion then we could aggree to disaggree on faith but you are too stupid to acknowledge what you call science is really fiction posing as science and then you look down on those who excercise their individuality.

 I think that you know how your God qualifies what you are doing   .  Right?  ------------> YES I do , HE said  be wise as serpents and harmless as doves

Best,

100%

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>you are a poor excuse for an atheist drone! you are supposed to quote lies and present fiction as fact to prove your pagan concept of origins. but instead you are a petty hypocrite whinning to me about the morals of copy and paste like so many chumps with chimp envy you quote dogma and lies and missinformation and then you act smart with atheist bullshit jargon that was preached to you in a humanist college until you were indoctrinated to the point that you can recite bullshit as if you thought it up? thats what you do ! you say the same stupid points in so many ways but you never present facts that demonstrate you understand how intelligent you claim to be on the subject of thescieintific method.

you care more about improve ignore and rant speculation than you do about facts stated in plain articulate presentation. so what ? you can cry me a pollouted river, that does not change the reality of what I post.  It speaks my mind if I post it. and if you are afraid to address the points I post then that is your failure to meet my challenge! a fact is a fact and noone on this thread has yet to demonstrate a fact of evolution. and everytime one of you atheist drones steps up to post all I get is whinning about copy and paste. that is really quite pathetic. especially when most of you hypocrites copy paste while complainning about it.

stupid monkey wannabe!  I do not need to provide refferences when I post anything. this thread is a joke and all you "atheist"  closet pagans are the punchline

information that I used to present my points are given freely for the very purpose of covering as many details in less time I dont see any of you doing any experiments to prove what you argue is fact. NOOOOO you just spew endless bullshit rebuttals with no foundation in reality to support your claim to sanity.

 and whats worse everything you quote is a second hand lie. because you are taught to accept it without question whereas my copy of the original scriptures teach me to question everything. but you do not have that discipline being a so called non theist.  your satanic teachers brainwashed you at an early age with barny and his million years anthem.

I simply stated my challenge and you failed to meet my challenge because you are not qualified to argue with reality. because in the end you will have to bow and confess your servitude to your true master of CREATION.  and that just kills you. to serve in heaven , you would rather face eternity in oblivion?

you this is the real crux of this thread. comming to terms with the reality of a SUPREME BEING that you must answer to. that is final measure of your free will.

debating science is not a saving grace for me or for you. because we both have the same data to interpret differently and you will continue to be a failed rebel drone by choice because you need to be led because you atheist slapnuts have no direction in eternity. you are blind leading the blind. this thread is a perfect example.  you gather to stroke each others petty ego and then you complain there is no theist to set you straight and then you whine because we do not conform to your satanic indoctrination.  nor do we need to follow your imaginary guidlines for a debate.

All his carp has been refuted already, he is just here to see if we know how to copy and paste the answers, and to be a hypocrite on top of that.

He is not really worth debating, he chooses to use his own facts and totally disregard any that may make his "facts" meaningless. Now he is apparently willing to disregard the fact that tectonic plates move and volcanic activity in general is moot.

His claims are for the weak minded, of which there are plenty. If he has such real evidence then he should be spewing this out on some national television network. I know I would if I had irrefutable evidence of a young earth. What I have seen has been quite the opposite.

Yea the bibleman thread in the arts/entertainment forum was a small stab on the subject.

edit: and rereading my own quote my phrasing was a bit off but I think people should still get what I was saying.

 Mind Over Matter, I am

 Mind Over Matter,

I am offering you a deal.---------------------->I dont make deals with liars and accusers

You apologize for being rude to me and stop pasting random text.  Then we can have a conversation and I will be glad to answer your questions. ----------------------------------------->>>>>> NO you do not make demands. you post nonsense to prove my point that all you atheist chumps do on this thread is gather to stroke each others sour ego.  Like a bunch idiots in a virtual school yard .     you already refused to meet my challenge because you are not qualified to demonstrate reality that will expose you as a hypocrite and fraud lover.   there was never a true conversation with you or anyone like your kind on this impotent thread claiming to be rational in response.

Until then, it is not possible to communicate.-----------> lol   No its is possible just not practical with atheist chumps with chimp envy!

Also, I meant plagiarism, and not copyright infringement.  The copyright infringement would imply that you are trying to benefit from it. ------------->you ignore and rant because that is all can do in response to my posted challenge! admit it !   information for the benefit of education is free and if you want to change the subject from what I posted as a challenge to justify your stupid closet pagan worldview,... to the petty issue of where I get my info to make my stated post?   then you are truly useless to your lost cause.  Your retreating response is typical and I have come to expect that from every bitchnugget atheist monkey wannabe on this thread and others like it.

Its always the same zealous attitude when people like you feel backed into a corner by facts.  you become emotional hypocrites.
 

Again, until you accept my offer this is my last communication with you.

Best,

100%

 ----------------------------->>ack off! you fraud.  I have seen your follow up posts to your fellow bitchnuggets on this thread in refference to MIND OVER MATTER, you had more than a fair share of my time to meet my simple challenge to show you are open minded and willing to engage in an honest exchange

I don't need you to meet my challenge , I give you the benefit of the doubt to show you are not selfish like darwin, dawkins, hitchins, gould, and everyone on this thread who believes they are the offspring of billion years old shit/scum/whatever you want to imagine it was because that is the foundation of your pagan religion of evolution.

Cosmic evolution involves the origin of the universe, time and matter itself. The Big Bang theory falls within this discipline of evolution.                                        NOW DEMONSTRATE IT THROUGH THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD

Chemical evolution involves the origin of complex elements. This discipline also attempts to explain the process in which those elements formed. 

NOW DEMONSTRATE IT THROUGH THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD

Stellar and planetary evolution is the discipline used to explain the origin of the stars and planets. This is distinct from cosmic evolution, yet, at times, overlaps it.  NOW DEMONSTRATE IT THROUGH THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD
 

Organic evolution attempts to explain the origin of living matter. Those in origin of life studies most often focus on this discipline of evolution.
NOW DEMONSTRATE IT THROUGH THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD

The two final disciplines of evolution are also the most often confused by people. They are macro-evolution and micro-evolution. Micro-evolution states that all living organisms experience mutations and have the ability to develop genetic adaptations. The difference between this and macro-evolution is that micro-evolution only deals with mutations within a species.

Macro-evolution, on the other hand, states that such adaptations and mutations allow new species to form.

 NOW DEMONSTRATE IT THROUGH THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD

Also micro changes can be observed with the scientific method. While all the other terms OF EVOLUTION are imaginary and preached as religious fact without question or basis in science or common sense. ( PAGAN HUMANIST /ATHEIST/ CHUMPS WITH CHIMP ENVY/ ARE OF THE SPIRIT OF SATAN)

fact

Evolution is an ancient pagan concept (MAN MADE RELIGION)where people worship nature / creation instead of a CREATOR or they invent idols based on nature/creation
the theory of evolution has been with us for a very, very long time. It actually comes from ancient pagan religious beliefs that continue to be reflected in many religious traditions around the globe today. It has been documented that many ancient pagan teachers and philosophers believed that the universe spontaneously evolved by itself, that the universe is millions of years old, that humans once resembled fish, and that all living things continue to evolve.
 

LOL LOL LOL LOL

keep up the use of intelligent design to try and prove no need for intelligent design!  

Evolution is a pagan concept, a man made religion? Since when did druids worship Darwin, or talk about how one animal changes into another over a long period of time?

You have pulled this straw out of your ass too many times.

Just another theist sheep who wants so badly for an atheist to have "leaps of faith" and beliefs and religions. You would like to think we are down at your little level of ignorance. Sory to break your little theist heart but I have never worshipped or prayed to anything other than the christian god, and that was a very long time ago.

This is why no one should really even bother to respond to your posts, you are a compass without a needle.

You know, when you're as stupid as mind over matter, the world of knowledge must be a damn scary place. What better way to lash out at what you don't understand than to proudly display your ignorance in incoherent creotard rants? Stupid, ignorant and really bad at English, the holy trinity of creationists.

I will just make one comment here, since this post is one of the more clearly incorrect ones in the whole thread:

1. Venus:

Venus was always expected to be warmer than Earth, never 'cold', simply because it is closer to the Sun, but estimates earlier than 70 years ago did not make allowances for the greenhouse effect of its thick atmosphere. The uncertainty about this is entirely reasonable, since the surface temperature is not purely a direct function of its distance from the Sun and its orbital period, which are the only highly accurate figures known about Venus from early observations.

2. Probability of evolution:

An apocryphal, unidentified, off the cuff remark about the probability of evolution is irrelevant to the actual scientific credibility of evolution.

But that remark is actually quite reasonable, given rules which more accurately reflect how evolution by natural selection is supposed to work.

FACT: The observed frequency and kinds of spontaneous mutations and other re-arrangements of DNA are way more than enough to allow for evolution, which does not require an entire new species to arise before being filtered by natural selection. Each single small change from parent to offspring is tested, by its effect on the reproductive success of the offspring, which means that any probability calculation has to be applied step by step. 

The corresponding random typing scenario calculation would work out how long it would take, on average, to hit the correct key at each position, multiplied by the number of keys.

So the monkey would type at random until it got the first character right, then move on to the second, and so on.

Because once one of the small mutations which keep happening all the time hit upon one which gives some small improvement in survival, that tends to stick, precisely because it confers an advantage.

So even if it took the monkey a hour on average to hit the right character at each position, it would be over in one day.

An intermediate position would require the monkey to type at random a valid sequence of letters in English, such as 'tr', 'th', 'ta', rather than something like 'tx', 'tq', 'tz' before moving on to the next character. Or perhaps it should be stretched to typing out a series of random but valid English words, or perhaps valid syllables. These options would more accurately reflect what happens in natural selection. You could estimate the average time to hit on a valid word that made some sort of sense in context, then work out the overall time by applying the same process to the all the possible valid sequences of words.

The point in this second scenario is that many sequences of characters would be aborted as soon as enough had been typed to allow us to reject it as not possibly part of a valid English phrase, rather than waiting to type out the full character count each time.

The need for each intermediate step to be viable is a constraint on the path of evolution, and explains why we often get less-than-perfectly 'designed' bodies. Like the human eye with its blood supply on the front of the retina, while the octopus was lucky enough to get it the right way round, because it is a very different body plan.

Or like that nerve in giraffes head which goes from its head all the down to the base of its neck and back because it went the 'wrong' way around its esophagus.

Evolution explains such poor design features, intelligent creation does not.

I have no idea where that idea came from.  I don't know how anyone thinks the earth is only 6,000 years old.  Honestly, I don't even know where it actually says that in the bible.  I think people trace back the years of the humans spoken of in the bible and it adds up to 6,000 so people determine that that must be when the world was created but I don't even believe the human race is even that young and why wouldn't people understand that the earth was here long before humans.  I'm intrested to see why people believe that.

what is information? knowledge communicated or received

 Proteins are so hard to make that in all of nature, they never form except in already living cells. Never! This scientific fact stands in stark contrast to what was taught. 

Evidence that life never comes from non-living materials is so abundant that it is a basic principle of science called the Principle of Biogenesis (living things come only from living things). Atheists and many agnostics have faith that contrary to this basic principle of science, life did evolve spontaneously from chemicals at least once. They now call their theory “abiogenesis” which comes from roots that mean “not Biogenesis.” They no longer use the term “spontaneous generation.”
 

there is more scientific evidence that life could not form without a Creator. RNA never forms except in already living cells: “… no one has yet succeeded in creating RNA.”  The fact that RNA is vital to the life of every cell, and cannot be made except by already living cells is powerful evidence against life forming without a Creator.

“… proteins fold into a highly complex, three-dimensional shape that determines their function. Any change in shape dramatically alters the function of a protein, andeven the slightest change in the folding process can turn a desirable protein into a disease.” Living cells fold such proteins in less than a second. This evidence shows that the One who invented the way proteins fold in cells is much more intelligent than the new super computer.

Proteins are not made where they will be used, and are worthless except in the one spot they fold to fit. How do proteins find their way? “… newly minted proteins contain an amino acid string that determines their eventual home.”The amino acid string which forms the address is usually added as a tail on the end of the longer string of amino acids which make up the protein. This tail has been compared to the address on an envelope.

put a bunch of your letters in the mail box without addressing them. If the right addresses were to form spontaneously, you would probably call it a miracle

Misplacing a protein is more serious than losing a letter, however. There are diseases where proteins are mistargeted in cells.  All available evidence indicates that creating and coding the correct information for each address requires intelligence.

Cells can’t live unless each of their many proteins not only folds correctly, but receives the correct address tag. When several things must be in place at the same time for an object to function, it is called “irreducible complexity,” and is evidence that it had a creator. 

The cell also needs the right amount of each protein.

If a first living cell had formed without a Creator, the cell would still have had to replace each of its proteins as soon as it wore out. If the cell did not contain the information to correctly turn on and off the production of the replacement proteins, the cell would have died as soon as the first essential protein wore out. This is evidence that there is a Creator who knows how to turn protein production on and off!

The proteins that make up cells will not form anywhere in nature except in already living cells. One reason cells can make them is because the directions for making them and for turning their production on and off are already present in the cell’s library of information called DNA. Once made, proteins could not function unless they were properly folded and addressed. Neither making proteins, folding, addressing, nor regulating their production could invent itself, yet no cell could live unless all were in place working together. These brilliant solutions are scientific facts and constitute evidence for a very intelligent Creator who plans ahead.

A Cell Must Have a Membrane, lipids are only produced by accurately controlled reactions in living cells. This is important evidence!

A lipid membrane without its protein pumps and channels would let water enter the cell, but would keep nutrients out, starving the cell, so proteins had to work together with the lipids from the first, another important evidence, of carefully planned irreducible complexity.

If cells had really formed spontaneously, we would expect their important parts to be made of materials that form easily under natural conditions. However, not one of the four: lipids, proteins, RNA, or DNA, can be made that way at all!
   Amazing! Not one is formed in nature except by a living cell, yet for a cell to live, all must be there at the same time, each one doing its job. If  YAHUWAH had wanted to shout to you that He is here, and show you proof that He created, could you find a more convincing proof for Him to use?

SOOOOOOOO.........Where Did the Information in Cells Come from?

What is information?  knowledge communicated or received ,..a message that conveys meaning, such as a book of instructions.… Information is not matter, though it is imprinted on matter.     Information is not produced by the material that carries it :

 

Information is not determined by the material it is written on, whether it be paper, a computer, or whatever. The same sheet of paper can be used to draw a comic strip or to write a chemical formula. The same stretch of DNA that carries the commands for brown hair can just as easily hold the commands that will make blond hair; or teeth for that matter! Information comes from minds. My old Encyclopedia Britannica was on a CD. Now I consult a copy on the Internet. The message is independent of the material it happens to be written on.
 

Neither does information depend on the particular set of letters or code it is written in. If this booklet is translated into Chinese, the information will be the same. The information in DNA has been copied onto computers in the Human Genome Project, and printed out on paper. It is the same information no matter what it is written on, in, or with.

There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to information, neither is there any physical process or material phenomenon known that can do this.  All languages, alphabets, and codes that we know of, as well as the information spoken or written in them, originated in minds. The blind faith of the atheist that the first life was an exception is contrary to all known evidence.

there is no way that chance, clay, “organic soup,” or natural selection could invent the chemical code of a first cell, and use it to write information instructing the cell to make just the right proteins, fold them properly, and send each one to the only place in the cell where it will fit.  Information never happens apart from intelligence, yet cells contain huge amounts of information. I believe this is the most important single evidence that life came from the mind of an intelligent Creator rather than from dumb chemicals. 
the presence of large quantities of organized information in cells is evidence of an intelligent Creator.
The codes which carry the information in DNA and RNA use four nucleotides which work like a four letter alphabet. If that doesn’t sound like enough letters, remember that any message can be written with computers or in Morse Code. Both have alphabets of only two letters. The four nucleotide bases that form the “letters” of the DNA code, can be arranged to spell out the instructions for making all the different proteins. All available evidence indicates that it takes intelligence to devise letters or code, and arrange them into instructions. 
   

Scientists use information as a proof of intelligence 
because the evidence overwhelmingly supports this position. The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of YAHUWAH. Modern people put symbols in their spacecraft to try to send a message into space that there are intelligent beings on earth. YAHUWAH built cells out of materials so hard to make that in all of nature these materials never form apart from living cells. Into these cells He put information which can only have come from a mind. In doing so, He sent a strong message to all who have minds; a message which helps pry open our stubborn hearts to know Him who said, “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” 

The evidence that an intelligent Creator made the information in DNA is reinforced by the fact that this information takes up the least space possible. After a number of intelligent scientists had worked for many years developing ever better microfilm they fit the entire Bible on one 32 X 33 mm film. Amazing! However, that same space covered with DNA would hold information equivalent to 7.7 million Bibles!

If DNA was formed with no intelligent input as ATHEIST chump with chimp envy biology books often imply, why did it take generations of intelligent scientists thousands of man hours to develop the millions of times less efficient microfilm?

No matter how strong the atheist’s faith may be, his belief that the information in cells formed with no mind involved is contrary to the evidence. The evidence indicates that the information in DNA was put there by a Creator who is so intelligent that we should listen to everything He has to say. 

the stupid atheist chump with chimp envy is a liar and a fool Redefining Science to Eliminate the Creator.  noone (closet pagan ATHEIST DRONES) on this thread has yet to meet my posted CHALLENGE because they are all mind bubbles floating without direction and purpose.

Wow, I have read this entire thread....mind over matter you have no clue what the fuck your talking about, even less about scientific method, the evidence for evolution, how the universe formed, how stars and planets formed, fuck you don't even understand the concept of anything scientific, yet your trying to prove intelligent design, which has zero evidence for it. None, you haven't prove shit all. The fact that your trying to say that the odds of evolution occurring as it has, doesn't make it impossible, just improbable it would happen exactly the same way again, however improbable and impossible are not the same thing, as evidence that we are here, and the evidence of evolution be it from genetic, fossil, or the other tons of evidence that science uses (which the intelligent design crowd completely lacks of) show that it did happen, and again improbable =/= impossible.

Even more so, no one has really ever known the exact odds of all the equations it takes to figure out the probability of evolution, just like those that pull the numbers out of their asses for the probability that the universe could form the way it has, no one, until very very very recently, like 2 years ago, tried to figure those numbers out, even more so, it not even known if the universe, or the physical laws can actually be altered, they may just be the way it is no matter what, yet so many of the intelligent design crowds love to use probability numbers and charts but never explain how the fuck they figured those numbers and assigned the probability of each occurrence and so far you haven't even done that , you posted something that extremely outdated. How about you get some education in regards to science, the scientific method, how peer reviewing works and why the ID crowd is full of shit, and has zero evidence to back up their claim, zero peer reviewed work and much like god, zero evidence to show actual ID requirement.

Church of Tantrum 

or maybe it's the Temple of Tantrum...

 <-------ATHEIST monkey slapnut wannabe with no clue

Wow, I have read this entire

new

Wow, I have read this entire thread....mind over matter you have no clue what the fuck your talking about,-------->LOL no you have no fucking clue what I am talking about.

even less about scientific method, -------->>you did not meet my posted challenge to you to demonstrate you understand the scientific method since all you did what ignore and  rant like the typical coward atheist in retreat.

the evidence for evolution, how the universe formed, how stars and planets formed,---------> please demonstrate any of these through the scientific method?

you stupid monkey wannabe!

fuck you don't even understand the concept of anything scientific,--------->LOL you did not demonstrate anything in your stupid rebuttal

 yet your trying to prove intelligent design, which has zero evidence for it. ---->example of intelligent design:Intelligent Design - DNA==An excellent example of intelligent design is the DNA molecule. Since its discovery by James Watson and Francis Crick in 1953, evolutionists have faced an insurmountable hurdle. Anyone who truly investigates the mystery of the DNA molecule -- this incredible micro, digital, error-correcting, redundant, self duplicating, information storage and retrieval system, with its own inherent language convention, that has the potential to develop any organism from raw biological material -- understands that life is the result of Intelligent Design. In light of recent discoveries such as the DNA molecule, the absurdity of the evolution argument is readily apparent when its basic formula is compared with that of the creation model of origins. Creation states that matter + energy + information = incredibly complex life. Evolution states that matter + energy + random chance = incredibly complex life. The theory of evolution is merely a religion that serves to discredit the Intelligent Designer Himself.

Intelligent Design - Life
Ignoring the obvious Intelligent Design that permeates life, scientists have developed the theory of evolution in an effort to explain the origin of life via spontaneous generation. This "scientific" theory is very distinctive. Commonly, scientists observe data, interpret the data, and then formulate conclusions based upon that data. Yet, evolutionists have formulated their "scientific" conclusion without resorting to any data at all. In fact, evolutionists have steadfastly maintained their conclusion despite data to the contrary.

Intelligent Design - Machines
Intelligent Design is obvious upon close examination of any machine. The concept and design inherent in a machine, whether simple or complex, is self-evident. Whether a machine is high quality or low quality, its designer is both necessary and apparent. Information Theory states that concept and design can only result from a mind. Even the diminished quality of a poorly constructed machine cannot obscure the necessity of an intelligent designer. Machines, as defined by French Biochemist and Nobel Laureate Jacques Lucien Monod (1910-1976), are "purposeful aggregates of matter that, utilizing energy, perform specific tasks." By this authoritative definition, living systems are recognized as machines. A living organism fulfills the definition of a machine all the way down to the molecular level. And yet, because of the philosophical and religious implications of life resulting from Intelligent Design, a surprisingly large portion of the intelligentsia seek to find a mechanism by which life may arise naturally by random chance. Evolutionists admit the inconsistency. George Wald, an evolutionist, states, "When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds; therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance!" ("The Origin of Life," Scientific American, 191:48. May 1954).

None, you haven't prove shit all. -----> NO you fail to acknowledge proof because you are a blind goat being led to a spiritual slaughterhouse by SATAN.

The fact that your trying to say that the odds of evolution occurring as it has, doesn't make it impossible, just improbable it would happen exactly the same way again, however improbable and impossible are not the same thing, as evidence that we are here, and the evidence of evolution be it from genetic, fossil, or the other tons of evidence that science uses (which the intelligent design crowd completely lacks of) show that it did happen, and again improbable =/= impossible. ---------->>>> NO it would not , DID not and NEVER DID and you will never prove it otherwise because the odds are infinity to ZERO just like your stupid pagan religious concept of evolution which you cannot prove with the scieintific method.

Even more so, no one has really ever known the exact odds of all the equations it takes to figure out the probability of evolution,------->>  I already stated that you parrot. my point is that it is not probable and no statistic is relevant in reality because you base you facts on fiction and then mouth off to me about what you think is science.

 just like those that pull the numbers out of their asses for the probability that the universe could form the way it has, no one, until very very very recently, like 2 years ago, tried to figure those numbers out, even more so, it not even known if the universe, or the physical laws can actually be altered, they may just be the way it is no matter what, yet so many of the intelligent design crowds love to use probability numbers and charts but never explain how the fuck they figured those numbers and assigned the probability of each occurrence and so far you haven't even done that , you posted something that extremely outdated. How about you get some education in regards to science, the scientific method, how peer reviewing works and why the ID crowd is full of shit, and has zero evidence to back up their

---------->propbably, could have, perhaps, possibly, might have occurred, it is believed that, we speculate that, if,,by chance,etc.........

  you believe what barny whispers in your ear about millions of years? or maybe you prefer spongebob to jerk your chain? geology is not the same everywhere you go so the idea of millions of years is a total fantasy to turn people from faith in and juudgment from a CREATOR of matter in space over time who is identified as YAHUWAH and HIS word is YAHUWSHUA which means YAHUWAH IS SALVATION.

keep up the creative intelligent design to try and prove no need for intelligent design!

I accept your failure as a sign of defeat for all atheists on this thread

...untill the cows come home..oh wait they never actually DO come home do they. I never knew.

 Proteins are so hard to make that in all of nature, they never form except in already living cells. Never! This scientific fact stands in stark contrast to what was taught. 

Evidence that life never comes from non-living materials is so abundant that it is a basic principle of science called the Principle of Biogenesis (living things come only from living things). Atheists and many agnostics have faith that contrary to this basic principle of science, life did evolve spontaneously from chemicals at least once. They now call their theory “abiogenesis” which comes from roots that mean “not Biogenesis.” They no longer use the term “spontaneous generation.”
 

there is more scientific evidence that life could not form without a Creator. RNA never forms except in already living cells: “… no one has yet succeeded in creating RNA.”  The fact that RNA is vital to the life of every cell, and cannot be made except by already living cells is powerful evidence against life forming without a Creator.

“… proteins fold into a highly complex, three-dimensional shape that determines their function. Any change in shape dramatically alters the function of a protein, andeven the slightest change in the folding process can turn a desirable protein into a disease.” Living cells fold such proteins in less than a second. This evidence shows that the One who invented the way proteins fold in cells is much more intelligent than the new super computer.

Proteins are not made where they will be used, and are worthless except in the one spot they fold to fit. How do proteins find their way? “… newly minted proteins contain an amino acid string that determines their eventual home.”The amino acid string which forms the address is usually added as a tail on the end of the longer string of amino acids which make up the protein. This tail has been compared to the address on an envelope.

put a bunch of your letters in the mail box without addressing them. If the right addresses were to form spontaneously, you would probably call it a miracle

Misplacing a protein is more serious than losing a letter, however. There are diseases where proteins are mistargeted in cells.  All available evidence indicates that creating and coding the correct information for each address requires intelligence.

Cells can’t live unless each of their many proteins not only folds correctly, but receives the correct address tag. When several things must be in place at the same time for an object to function, it is called “irreducible complexity,” and is evidence that it had a creator. 

The cell also needs the right amount of each protein.

If a first living cell had formed without a Creator, the cell would still have had to replace each of its proteins as soon as it wore out. If the cell did not contain the information to correctly turn on and off the production of the replacement proteins, the cell would have died as soon as the first essential protein wore out. This is evidence that there is a Creator who knows how to turn protein production on and off!

The proteins that make up cells will not form anywhere in nature except in already living cells. One reason cells can make them is because the directions for making them and for turning their production on and off are already present in the cell’s library of information called DNA. Once made, proteins could not function unless they were properly folded and addressed. Neither making proteins, folding, addressing, nor regulating their production could invent itself, yet no cell could live unless all were in place working together. These brilliant solutions are scientific facts and constitute evidence for a very intelligent Creator who plans ahead.

A Cell Must Have a Membrane, lipids are only produced by accurately controlled reactions in living cells. This is important evidence!

 What does the cell’s membrane do?A living cell is a self-reproducing system of molecules held inside a container. The container is the plasma membrane - a fatty film so thin and transparent that it cannot be seen directly in the light microscope. It is simple in construction, being based on a sheet of lipid molecules…. Although it serves as a barrier to prevent the contents of the cell from escaping and mixing with the surrounding medium…the plasma membrane does much more than that. Nutrients have to pass inward across it if the cell is to survive and grow, and waste products have to pass outward. Thus the membrane is penetrated by highly selective channels and pumps, formed from protein molecules, that allow specific substances to be imported while others are exported. Still other protein molecules in the membrane act as sensors to enable the cell to respond to changes in its environment.

A lipid membrane without its protein pumps and channels would let water enter the cell, but would keep nutrients out, starving the cell, so proteins had to work together with the lipids from the first, another important evidence, of carefully planned irreducible complexity.

If cells had really formed spontaneously, we would expect their important parts to be made of materials that form easily under natural conditions. However, not one of the four: lipids, proteins, RNA, or DNA, can be made that way at all!
   Amazing! Not one is formed in nature except by a living cell, yet for a cell to live, all must be there at the same time, each one doing its job. If  YAHUWAH had wanted to shout to you that He is here, and show you proof that He created, could you find a more convincing proof for Him to use?

SOOOOOOOO.........Where Did the Information in Cells Come from?

What is information?  knowledge communicated or received ,..a message that conveys meaning, such as a book of instructions.… Information is not matter, though it is imprinted on matter.     Information is not produced by the material that carries it :

 

Information is not determined by the material it is written on, whether it be paper, a computer, or whatever. The same sheet of paper can be used to draw a comic strip or to write a chemical formula. The same stretch of DNA that carries the commands for brown hair can just as easily hold the commands that will make blond hair; or teeth for that matter! Information comes from minds. My old Encyclopedia Britannica was on a CD. Now I consult a copy on the Internet. The message is independent of the material it happens to be written on.
 

Neither does information depend on the particular set of letters or code it is written in. If this booklet is translated into Chinese, the information will be the same. The information in DNA has been copied onto computers in the Human Genome Project, and printed out on paper. It is the same information no matter what it is written on, in, or with.

There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to information, neither is there any physical process or material phenomenon known that can do this.  All languages, alphabets, and codes that we know of, as well as the information spoken or written in them, originated in minds. The blind faith of the atheist that the first life was an exception is contrary to all known evidence.

there is no way that chance, clay, “organic soup,” or natural selection could invent the chemical code of a first cell, and use it to write information instructing the cell to make just the right proteins, fold them properly, and send each one to the only place in the cell where it will fit.  Information never happens apart from intelligence, yet cells contain huge amounts of information. I believe this is the most important single evidence that life came from the mind of an intelligent Creator rather than from dumb chemicals. 
the presence of large quantities of organized information in cells is evidence of an intelligent Creator.
The codes which carry the information in DNA and RNA use four nucleotides which work like a four letter alphabet. If that doesn’t sound like enough letters, remember that any message can be written with computers or in Morse Code. Both have alphabets of only two letters. The four nucleotide bases that form the “letters” of the DNA code, can be arranged to spell out the instructions for making all the different proteins. All available evidence indicates that it takes intelligence to devise letters or code, and arrange them into instructions. 
   

Scientists use information as a proof of intelligence 
because the evidence overwhelmingly supports this position. The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of YAHUWAH. Modern people put symbols in their spacecraft to try to send a message into space that there are intelligent beings on earth. YAHUWAH built cells out of materials so hard to make that in all of nature these materials never form apart from living cells. Into these cells He put information which can only have come from a mind. In doing so, He sent a strong message to all who have minds; a message which helps pry open our stubborn hearts to know Him who said, “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” 

The evidence that an intelligent Creator made the information in DNA is reinforced by the fact that this information takes up the least space possible. After a number of intelligent scientists had worked for many years developing ever better microfilm they fit the entire Bible on one 32 X 33 mm film. Amazing! However, that same space covered with DNA would hold information equivalent to 7.7 million Bibles!

If DNA was formed with no intelligent input as ATHEIST chump with chimp envy biology books often imply, why did it take generations of intelligent scientists thousands of man hours to develop the millions of times less efficient microfilm?

No matter how strong the atheist’s faith may be, his belief that the information in cells formed with no mind involved is contrary to the evidence. The evidence indicates that the information in DNA was put there by a Creator who is so intelligent that we should listen to everything He has to say. 

the stupid atheist chump with chimp envy is a liar and a fool Redefining Science to Eliminate the Creator.  noone (closet pagan ATHEIST DRONES) on this thread has yet to meet my posted CHALLENGE because they are all mind bubbles floating without direction and purpose.

You need to get on tv with this irrefutable evidence, hurry and go get your prize for proving evolution to be false. Show everyone how your creator waved his hand and thought you and everything else into existence. They may give you a prize.

In other news, I hear this mind over matter guy is pulling more carp out of his ass. Recycling ftw.