I know I can't. As far as I'm concerned, it's like going for a massage. That's assuming the adults involved are, in fact, consenting, and not under some form of duress.

Prostitution still has an undeserved bad rap after millenia, so there's the problem that it might affect a person's self-esteem. It's my opinion that it should be a regulated profession, so that whining moralists can no longer argue that spreading disease is a legitimate concern. It would also free up police to go after pimps who use children.

It should really be like any other form of therapy, with professional standards and at least a comfortable working environment. Mind you, I've never used the services of a prostitute. That's not to say I never would, it just hasn't been necessary, so I know very little about it. There's no reason, thought, that they shouldn't have the the same courtesy extended to them as any other health professional.

It kind of cracks me up that being up front about it in prostitution is somehow wrong, but a woman marrying a guy because he's rich is fine. A lot of guys will say they never paid for sex, but how many times did you buy a bitch a $50 dinner or some jewelry or whatever - and then a lot of times you don't even get any. With the hoe you pay a set price and you always get what you want. Maybe it's not all religion but women that are afraid it would make it too easy for guys to get so they'd have to put out more or not get so much if they wanted a guy.

ummm... no girl is obligated to have sex with you because you spent $50 on dinner, you know.

She's not?

<quickly hides the bling...>

LC >;-}>

A proper moral system. based on minimising harm and coercion, with due consideration to balancing long and short term effects individually and collectively, should have no problems with any acts between consenting adults which have no actual  harmful effects on others, and 'moral' outrage suffered by a third party on contemplation of the particular activity should not count as actual harm...

'Commandments' inscribed in some ancient text should have no special place here - if they meet such guidelines, they are acceptable, otherwise not. And introduction of claims of 'harm' to some imagined entity such as one's 'soul', or assumed offence taken by a supposed higher being, in the absence of reasonable demonstration of their reality, should be firmly excluded.

I think that prostitution could easily fit within such guidelines.

Know what cracks me up?

That I can pay someone to repeatedly punch me in the head until I fall unconscious and that's perfectly ok. We call them "boxing trainers."

But if I pay someone for sex, that's not ok.

Violence, yes. Pleasure, no.

Unless violence is pleasurable to you, in which case you're all set.

My only problem would be the working conditions and rights of the workers.

Coersion, drugs (as in people being trapped because they are using it to feed a drug habit), the potential violence and bullying of workers, etc. So there would need to be regulation and monitoring. These problems also exist in stripping, but that doesn't mean that everyone has those problems, we just need to protect the workers.

A lot of it comes down to the double standards of old-fashioned guys who don't realise we are in the 21st century (I like to refer to them as neanderthals). The type of guys who like to watch strippers then degrade them, who have sex with women and them call them sluts. You know, assholes.

Prostitution is legal here in Denmark. Pimping is strictly ILlegal and obviously prostitutes not paying their taxes is also illegal. None the less pimping and prostitute tax-evasion is very proliferant here, as is human trafficing of girls from eastern Europe who are brought here under false pretence and ends up in what is literally sex slavery.

So, the many problems surrounding prostitution are as big here as they are anywhere else. That said I think we have the right idea in legalising it. At least this way we have a minimum of control, and can protect some prostitutes (the once who work legally) from some things. And it will be there no matter what, I mean prostitutes are EVERYWHERE, not just here. There's a reason they call it the world's oldest profession. I mean, I'm sure there are even a couple in Iran.

I thoroughly agree with the argument that women are "selling" their services in other situations, like some marriages, or when a girl sleeps with a guy who buys them drinks and gifts and such, so prostitution is IN PRINCIPLE no different. But is it okay then? Or are THOSE above mentioned situations problematic too? I think they are.

I think in a perfectly healthy society men will treat women with respect AND VICE VERSA (never forget that women call men pigs as often as men call women whores), and in such a society prostitution would work perfectly.

But at the moment strong, self confident young women who sell sexual favors to lonely, socially akward, but otherwise perfectly lovely men, and thus do a beautiful thing for them , for the general health of society, and indeed for humanity as a whole, are few and far between.

I think legalised prostitution does a little, but only a little, to help protect the rest of the sex workers out there; that is, the once who aren't like the ones described above. What REALLY needs to be done is an extensive change in our society, to a place where men and women are TRULY equal, and I don't see that happening in the near future.

To the quote above: firstly, you are NEVER obliged to do anything you don't want to, that goes for prostitutes too. If I provide a service, ANY service, like if I for example clean floors, I can always choose not to, if I have a personal reason not to, and I will not have broken the law. At worst I will just loose my job, which seems reasonable if I am not willing to do it. The only obligation is for my employer to pay me if I DO do the service. Not paying IS illegal. That is true for any job, also prostitution (here in Denmark at least).

But secondly, because society is what it is, there really ARE women out there who DO feel obliged to sleep with men if they buy them dinner, so there... Is that okay? Ofcourse not, and it is a terribly sad reflection of the society we inhabbit, but there you are. Just because it SHOULDN'T be like that, it doesn't mean it isn't.

But we can change that.

What we need to do is change gender roles so that both sexes stop pigeon-holling eachother into certain roles. But that is a HUGE undertaking, and not one I see finished in my lifetime, even on a small scale, like just in Denmark. But with small incremental steps in the right direction we'll get there eventually in 200 to 1000 years time (I hope).

To quote someone I can't remember: "I'm a short term pesimist, long term optimist". That's true for me in all respects, and especially when it comes to this subject.

I completely agree. In the absence of coercion, degradation, substance abuse, etc.., is there a valid secular argument against a financial exchange for sex between consenting adults? There is none. Yet there are atheists (if you would even call them that) who uphold such a sacred view of sexuality that is bound to one's self worth and personhood. And that the commodification of an individual's body (eg. prostitution, pornography, stripping, etc) is degrading and objectifying. Furthermore, those individuals who do sell their bodies are not truly acting out of consent but are negatively conditioned by the prevailing "pornified" culture. Thus, in all circumstances is the selling of sex considered immoral because those individuals will always be victims. This is the common verbage used among secular groups opposed to prostitution (eg. feminists). This anti-libertarian view of sexuality is a strawman's argument and IMO no different from the sanctity of sex in religion.

Here's a real controversial opinion!

I disagree nobody deserves to be raped. The real bitches that seriously mistreat gys do - preferably by someone with AIDS and then shove a broken coke bottle up their cunt. I fucking hate women that are bitches after being mistreated. Bitches aint shit. They deserve cancer of the cunt and to die a horrible, slow painful death.

And it isn't only men that are sexual harrassers - some people know this but a married woman a couple years ago when I was at my job tried to get me - she was cute but I'm not messing with a married woman. She kept flirting with me and trying to get me to come to a back room with her. I finally mentioned about Carla (who turned out to be a piece of shit bitch) and she said "well that's nice" and gave me an evil look. A couple days later she punched me in the arm hard enough to leave a bruise that lasted 2 weeks. If I knew what I knew now about Carla being a gaming bitch I'd probably have let her fuck me. She quit the job like 2 weeks after she hit me.

By the way am I living in the bizzaro world? Everyone says men are afraid of commitment and are the players, but I want a serious relationship and the only women that contact me are players or want to be fuck buddies. Where are the single women that want a monogamous relationship and to be together with something in common besides just sex????

Wow. I can't imagine any possible scenario where I would consider abuse, especially of this nature, to be justified. Some women are bitches and some men are assholes. Some people are fucked up regardless of their sex. Having been on the receiving end of an abusive relationship for 9 years, I still wouldn't wish something like that upon my ex-husband. You must be carrying around an awful lot of animosity towards women. We certainly advocate the right to an opinion and the right to express it, but this comment borders on disgusting. Who defines what a "real bitch" is? Why use rape as the penalty? Is it to reestablish dominance as a male?

I think it would be wise to contemplate the reasons why you feel this way and to think twice before publicly posting it. A comment like this could be very upsetting to any woman who has been a victim of rape.

Ummmm....I don't know.

I might hesitate.

But if you throw in lifetime supply of strawberry ice cream then I'm good to go!

 I am almost 60 yrs young.  I went thru all that traditional, cultural moral crap, of sexual judgment and wishful ownership of the other sex. You know , the heart breaks, anger, unanswered lust, and 24/7 chasing, resentment, and winning too,  etc ....

Eventually I realized females have the "sexual attraction power" over most all us men. Virgins and prudy "selective" women became not the ideal of a quality FUN relationship for me. I stopped sexually judging women as in my old stiff prejudiced silly ways of "ownership enforcement".

Of all my young love affairs, the one women, mother of my daughter, was a prostitute, unknown to ME, rock n roller girl chaser me..  She liked me real extra special, and yeah she was so beautiful, lustful, a playful 24/7 tease, a screamer 3x a day! ....  so sexy and wanted by most every guy. 

We did 11 yrs as everyday live together lovers. We fell apart partly because of my silly ownership issues when I found out the on and off prostitution thing. She liked other guys, the easy money, and power, ...... and me.

She loved me special is my point, but that wasn't good enough. So then we went into "me hate and her guilt" mode for 10 yrs. Now I ask, why did we let tradition do this to me and her ????     

Mick Jagger sang "Some Girls" .... Sting sang . "Set her free, see if she comes back to you".

If a girl says hey dude , "I have fucked and sucked lots of guys for fun and a buck too, and will continue too, but can I do you ?"  What do you men say to her ??? 

  Now, I say,  yeah darling ..... help me do you good ! Your dildos or mine? "BOTH" she says ! WOW,  YEAH ! I love you, you sweet slut whore !!!   

 ((( GO Science, let's fix the problems with our natual sexual desires. )))

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I can see no universal argument as to why prostitution is wrong.

However it is completely rational for a person to find prostitution wrong because he/she desires sex to be with someone he/she loves.

I don't see it as being an forced business for those who choose the lifestyle.  Sure there's plenty of forced and abused workers mostly in the poor countries.  Even in our country we have plenty of human trafficking and slavery.  When I was in Vegas I saw a massage parlor at nearly every major intersection.  I found out later via a former Republican mayor who gave a rundown how Vegas operates that those joints are mostly chinese women being trafficked from Canada and shuffled around to avoid getting busted.  The boss usually takes all the money so the women have to hustle for extra tips for their pay and upsell BJs and other sexual services. 

Oh and I found another blogger who is open and outspoken about her atheism and sex work:

http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/

Glad I'm not the only freak out there.

-RR

In my ideal world (in which a number of things would exist that hardly anyone agrees should), finding a prostitute would be no different than finding a plan for your cellphone. You'd call a customer service line for a respectable and accountable business, you'd be politely informed of rates / services without having any stigma scratching along with the conversation, old gasbags would whine and moan about the changes in the industry as it carries forward while still hypocritically making use of the service themselves, there would be regulations and restrictions, good service and bad, brand names and competition, scandal and controversy.

Business as usual.

If I could buy hours of company and proximity from enterprising and kind young women as easily as I can buy hours of virtual adventure and entertainment from software developers and authors, I think my life would be just a tad bit richer.

I still like the idea of starting a charity to get women out of prostitution. The idea would be teaching them how to bake bread, cookies,cakes etc. Selling these products would fund the charity. They would be sold as......

hoe-made bread, hoe-made cookies, hoe-made cakes, etc.

Jesus is a pimp!

Last I heard Don Magic Juan had gone from pimpin' to preaching ... and then back to pimpin'!

Of course the ultimate pimp was Iceberg_Slim.

Iceberg Slim books are very easy to get on Amazon - the original was "Pimp - the story of my life" - from 1969 - he was a pimp for real from the mid 1930's until early '60s. The whole message actually was that's no way to live - he'd be upset about how many black kids in the '90s - 2000's think it's a good lifestyle - he got more into that in "The Naked Soul of Iceberg Slim" from the early 1970s - they thought so then, too. Apparently pimpin' was attractive to black youths since at least the 1920s.

Anyway as to my rant against bitches it was because of Carla ignoring me again I was so upset. She messaged me upset thinking I hate her. I told her I lover her and that's why I get so upset when she ignores me. She definitely can be emotionally abusive to me. I want to give her another chance, but thow I keep doing so once she talks to me I feel kinda like the woman who gets abused.

Except for the part about having sex for money.

What's the difference? If it doesn't bother the person doing it, why should you care? Personally, I find stocking shelves for money offensive. Or how about making Big Macs for money? Just because some people choose to idealize sex as if it is somehow different or more important than anything else in which we choose to engage doesn't necessarily make it so.  You obviously missed the point of that post by about a mile.

Yes, and yes, he does address sexual selection in multiple contexts.  However, if you're interested in a more in depth explanation of human sexual selection, I recommend:

The Mating Mind: How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature by Geoffrey Miller (Paperback - April 17, 2001)

In Miller's book (above), the first chapter is dedicated to a history of the idea of sexual selection.  It's only been within the last couple of decades that scientists have been willing to look at human sexuality as an instinctual set of behaviors, and the brain as a fitness indicator.  The good news is that as more and more scientists look at the subject objectively, we're getting a lot of very good data, and we have a much clearer picture of sexual selection in humans than we did even a decade ago.  It's certainly a new and exciting field.

I agree with the OP. I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with the act of exchanging money for sex (context excluded). In fact, I'm pretty sure the only reason it's still viewed to this day with such a level of derision is that for however many millenia, we've had it drilled into our heads that sex is an evil, dirty, disgusting thing that should only be shared with the one you love. So, thank you Jesus for making it so difficult for me to go get head on my lunch break at work. I really appreciate it.

Don't blame story "Jesus", a Jewish atheistic Buddha philosophy, as I read it between the lines (???) .... Blame bible Paul and them types. Cool Jesus hung out with the low lifes. Paul  was a women basher and punisher and accessory to murder. Geezz, what a clever fuck head that Paul, who wrote about love ..... 

Paul on Love

http://www.poeticexpressions.co.uk/POEMS/St.%20Paul%20on%20Love.htm

   Fuck you murderer, women (sex) basher Paul !