LOVE this from the blog: 

"Professor Myers,

I was saddened to hear of your plans to harm our Lord Jesus Christ.

It obviously isn't the first time and it won't be the last.

I know you do not believe, but what if it truly is Jesus that you are attempting to hurt?

You are in my prayers."

 

Why hasn't anyone created a cartoon of a cross with crackers nailed to it!!! COME ON all you artists out there, you know it is at the tip of y our pencils/paintbrushes!

Jesus is a cracker...very funny stuff!! I thought him to be a honkey... 

 

 

 

Cool.

 

Very good!  Can you superimpose a picture of jeebus' mug on the cracker?  Now that would raise some eyebrows.

 PZ -Rocks. I often wonder how did past civilizations deal with an end to their beliefs . What is wrong with these people ?     

 

We , and my band use to play this , I had an Echoplex, me god !

Queen - Stone Cold Crazy (high Quality)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0-6c0e2pQA&feature=related

 

LMMFAO!

Maybe the Christians are so pissed because of a sudden realization "Oh, the church is not protected by God from outer reality, any sinner can just come here and show how are our ceremonies meaningless!" The lost comfort of a safe shelter results in agressivity, you surely know that some animals need a dark, secluded place to rest, a dog-house, or a cave.
The response of outraged Christians is like a children, who found out that some tramp shitted in their painstakingly built tree-house in the forest.

The whole idea of Jesus' body and blood started when Jesus himself took a very specific bread which in no way resemblesd a wafer, and a wine, which probably doesn't share not even a molecule with any of mass wine of today. Repeating it without Jesus, or without the original bread and wine will always be only...symbolic.
Or did Jesus also say "repeat it every week on Sunday until I'll be back" ?

I'd like to know how roman catholics in my nation, if there are any around, feels about this case, I can hardly imagine anyone being such an asshat because of a desacrated wafer. I hope they understand that it's just a symbol, there had been proven no DNA to be found in a sacrated wafer.
Of course I saw a few of religious nutz in my life, but in moments like now I realize, how atheistic this country really is. The only Christianic party in politics is a middle party, and when I look at the names of their members, I certainly remember a few of corruption scandandals with some of these individuals, or just acts of  idiocy. Such people can't be taken seriously. I'm tempted to take a propagative song from their homepage (about "proper/decent life&quot and replace the video by a record of public fight of one of their members, a big corruption scandal of another, or a former singer from among them, singing an ass-climbing song for the publically hated local USA military radar base.

That's pretty much it. I thought the gesture was pretty tame, really. 

My co-workers are now looking at me like I am crazy, Kevin.  Thank you.  Thank you, immeasurably, for my hysterical outburst.

 

On one of my favorite websites (fstdt.com) there have been a few crazy people making posts about this. My favorite by far is:

http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?q=43531

So according to some Catholics rape and torture of loved ones is better then taking a Jesus cracker. These people are scary in that they care so much about this.

 

I wonder if PZ Myers is going to have the Muslims threaten violence against him. I mean Theo van Gogh just made a film, Myers has desecrated the Koran. I suppose the ball is in the court of the "religion of peace" on that one.

Being from South Carolina, I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that Jesus is a Cracker.  All my life I've had Crackers telling me how great Jesus is and how he's gonna send me to Hey-ull and the Lake of Fah if I don't straighten up and stop target shooting on Sunday mornings (it gets too hot if we wait until 11AM to start!).  Shit, just look at the guy.  I can't tell you how many people who look (and act) just like Jesus have tried to sell me weed or bootleg Skynyrd t-shirts out of the back of a 1987 Dodge Ram with a Cougar painted on the tailgate.  Emaciated, bearded, long-haired, poor table manners, surrounded by guys who fish for a living and constantly complaining about the Jews.  Sounds like a Cracker to me.

Yes, the era of kidnapping and blackmailing of people's children is gone, now a box of crackers does the same job and it's legal. I mean, if I have a box of holy crackers, I can do whatever I want with that, it's not an uranium, when USA would have a right to invade my ass and take it from me. So, a persuasive video of me in a mask, the box of crackers and a hammer, sent to some orthodox Christian could make wonder. If he won't pay, he receives a few of the crackers gruesomely shattered, torn apart, and so on, together with a video of me doing it. Maybe a bit of effects (like a blood dripping from a broken cracker, or holy aura around it, flickering and fading away) could make the video even better
Eh...I hope the Church has enough fear from the law to not demand from the followers to choose a cracker before lives of people. Wait! It actually tries to infiltrate the law, at least in USA. Damn.

Basically, someone had to think up the ideas, which were atypical, even revolutionary for that time and place. Next, it's quite common in history, that there from time to time appears some great man does some great deeds and leaves behind some less or more fantastic legends. (sorry women, that's mostly a patriarchal world)
Some people are legendary even today, alive or in recent history. Occurence of extraordinary men in history, good or bad, is quite regular and expectable. Historical records about them are distorted by time and their followers to fit the dogma, but their existence itself firstly attracted the followers. New ideas doesn't grow on trees nor come from the crowd. They come from individuals. Jesus basically attempted to convert Old Testament middle-east "morality" on something which would be quite acceptable, if people would abide with it.  Not that they usually would, but the attempt was meant well.

"Jesus" are words .....  of many .....  >>> write your own ........ kill the jesus of Paul and the Pope , and hang Bush ..... on video.  (  medaphorically ) I oppose the death  penalty.

   ( Hey Luminon, I did enjoy that "mood music" song / style , you posted and say the modern keyboard ,with the ability to record multi tracks ,  is a god send, in every home.     MUSIC  !  __ * )  ((((((((((

Entheogenic - Astral Cave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dq_abg0t9g&feature=related

              

 

 

 

     

Every one is a cracker   

Luminon has a weakness for believing things purely because the evidence for them is crap, questionable or non-existent. His parents have told him it's cool, and he's even convinced himself it's intelligent. Compared to some of the other delusions he comes up with, believing in a biblical Jesus is a doddle (and rather predictable, like the rest of his input as far as I can see). May the farce be with him ...

 

Desecration of things that theists hold dear is a two edged sword and can inflict as much damage on the cause of reintroducing rationalism as it helps illustrate that cause's aims. But as someone else said above - this one was rather tame. If you're out to incur the wrath of the righteously insane you may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb since the knee-jerkers react the same way anyway. Lace a few communion crackers with LSD or something and give the suckers (literally - it is a sin to chew them as Shelley remembers) a truly transubstantial experience.

 

Personally I have always preferred a less hysterical approach. It bugs the shit out of them when they are condemned by their own over-reactions to perfectly sound and calmly presented reason. They're the ones attempting to defend the irrational, so challenge them to do so coherently at every opportunity. They will always, always, always let their side down. The emperor's "new clothes" were revealed to be a con job by one astute and honest observation by an un-brainwashed child, not by a bazooka attack on the emperor. I have always liked that story.

It's been done, Matt. And with the full approval of the church too.

 

In the town I come from the main street was dominated by the church, a convent, a seminary and a christian brothers' training centre (yes folks, they trained child molesters). Back in the early 70s a curate who regarded himself as "progressive" (read "bad guitar playing preacher" ) decided that the nuns in the convent who traditionally baked the crackers should experiment with their dough-cutters and not just produce circular hosts. The nuns, half of whom were young innocents trying to model themselves on Julie Andrews and the other half of whom were batty and senile, went to town on the idea and the congregation over the next few weeks were treated to an increasingly bizarre "selection" of crackers. Lambs, fishes and christmas trees abounded, and then after a few weeks rudimentary "busts" of Jesus and his mother began rolling off the cookie-belt. They were going down a treat, and other places had begun the same experiment, when a newspaper article promoting the exercise generated feedback from some rather observant readers that the shapes, regardless of what subject they purported to represent, all looked vaguely like phalluses and the obvious connection to sexually repressed virgins (the bakers) was drawn.

 

The circles were back in vogue immediately, and to the best of my knowledge artistic licence has been revoked by order since then.

I don't claim that he did. Even the village of Nazareth didn't exist at this time, this name is by a mystical sect of Nazarenes. I don't have much confidence in historical data about Jesus, just like I'm not sure if a sacred relic of Buddha's tooth in some Indian temple is really Buddha's tooth.
Some biblic Jesus' preachings contains so unique thoughts, that whoever made them up, had to believe in them, live according to them, and preach them. This is the power of these words. It's not something what someone ordinary can think up at the ancient middle-east, ravaged by Old Testament practices and Roman occupation. I don't know who lived what is today called the life of Jesus, when or how, but someone obviously had to. For me there's not much difference between existence of Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, or any other significant person. That's of course no reason to worship such people, just like nobody here worships Abe Lincoln, I hope.

I emphasize personal experience, which is sufficient for everyone, but on the other side, is impossible to give to other people. This is why it's right for you to be so kind to me.
You should realize, that not all evidence is portable. It may be really hard evidence, undoubtable, even sometimes repeatable, but can't be mediated to any other person. This is, how it sometimes is. The only way how to give such an evidence, is to say someone else to get their own evidence of similar kind. Then there can be mutual understanding. Otherwise all depends on a good will, empathy and tolerance to get along peacefully.

Btw, how do you know so much about me and my parents? You just take a role model from theist families where parents systematically indoctrinates children by their religion and apply it to me. If I'd be in really cheeky mood, I'd ask you for an evidence to substantiate your claims. I definitely haven't ever seen a guy with camera around.
I have two brothers, younger and older, who are absolutely not interested in any religional, philosophic or spiritual stuff. They're not even against it, they're simply not interested, the area of their interests is somewhere else. My parents were in childhood subjected to a bad combination of theism and hypocrisy, so they very well know what not to do to their children or other people. Besides that, the content of their lectures is not for everyone. This selection is made by people themselves. Even if it would be the greatest truths ever, they are worthless for unprepared people. A rosebud can't be opened by force. There is no Hell, no need to indoctrinate people for all costs before they die. Everything has it's time. I'm simply presenting an information for those who will find it useful, others are free to reject it.
Sometimes it's important for people just to know that a certain idea exists, no matter if they think it's true or not.

 Nordmann, I understand your frustration, but please try to keep it from getting personal.

Exactly as you already do. It doesn't have to be an ad hominem, though. For instance, I'd question the practice of astrology in general, rather than accusing his father of being a con man. That would be an ad hominem attack that would be unwarranted, even if it were true. I'd give examples of how experience can be misleading rather than telling him he's only marginally sane, even if that happens to be true. The general case can be brought out especially in circumstances when people are so frustratingly thick that they refuse to see the obvious truth instead of a more pleasant or diverting fiction. When your blood boils at the seemingly impossible disconnection from reality that some people achieve, it may be more effective to breathe a few times, reach for the general case, and keep the higher ground. A reasonable reader will immediately be able to tell the hinged from the unhinged. 

Quite right. One moment.

Not really unique. "Be nice to one another" isn't exactly original, and neither is "your thoughts can be sins". Your statements here aren't true.

Not true. That's like arguing that someone must have lived the life of Nicholas Nickleby.

No it isn't. "My dog ate my homework" is the best example I can think of.

Ah, but good evidence is.

I can't think of an example, can you? No. That's because hard evidence is hard evidence. Repeatable, physical, or observable in some precise way.

Sure, but don't be surprised if someone demonstrates that the idea is false. Because advocating an idea that is demonstrably false is known either as fraud or simply lying.

It's the Viking heart. There's nothing to be done about that, and nothing should be.

Matt, it's called Transubstantiation.  The bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ.  It has nothing to do with holy water - which is just blessed water.  If you're planning on using holy water in something you intend to consume I suggest boiling it first.  I drank some of the water at Lourdes once and as a result became seriously ill.  I'm sure thousands of people had their hands, etc. in the stuff.

 

 

Yep,  we are hanging here under the stars .... dealing with our life imprisonment, of joys and resentments. 

The sounds of laughter and agony , screams of birth, nervous laughter, and war, all abound, as peace is but a dream.

I meant unique in that area (middle-east) for these times. What we see here, is a description of someone rebuilding a social norms, and to ensure that effect, provoking authorities so much, that he becomes a martyr. Whoever wrote this description, had to be either a damn good writer, or just wrote a history.
I had seen scientific opinions for and against Jesus' existence, for example, that there had been found a manuscript of Matt's evangelium from 1st century, when there still might been in Jeruzalem witnesses of what's written there.
For me, it's a significant project of rebuilding social norms, probably initiated by one individual, who I call Jesus, or Issa, if I should be linguistically precise. It's not supporting of Church, which parasites on that legacy.
Such people ocassionally appears almost everywhere, they see old norms, break them, teach something new, then die by less or more martyric death. After that, the teaching gathers more followers who makes the founder legendary, and in sooner or later the teaching becomes just as rigid and ready for a new revolution as a previous state was. That's a cycle of life, I don't know why Jesus should be an exception.

 

Yeah But a dog can eat (or just chew) a homework, right? Did you watch M.A.S.H. 4077? In one episode, there was B.F. Pierce estabilished as the guy who will give salaries to all the unit. Klinger bought a goat, so he will have a fresh milk. He left it for a while with Pierce's bag with money. Of course, a goat eats everything, including paper, so she ate Pierce's money for the whole unit. An investigator was sent, to find out if Pierce stole the money, and of course, the version with money-eating goat sounded to him like a total bullshit. He wrote a report to condemn Pierce for theft. But by a strange coincidence, the goat got to his tent and ate the report. So what should the investigator say, that a goat ate his report? And so the real justice won.
I think there's a great wisdom in this episode of M.A.S.H. If the goat really ate the money and Alan Alda didn't bribe a scenarist.

Here it's appeal to popularity. You measure an evidence according to how many people can see it, not how convincing it is for an individual. So, what's the rate, how many people must see the evidence, if it should be true?

If I'd say an example of such a not mediable evidence, by it's nature wouldn't convince you. Lol, what a dilemma If your dog ever ate your homework, you know what I mean. A true example of non-mediable evidence is non-mediable. This is the real world of evidences, it's not always such a paradise as you think. Are our great thinkers able to pass beyond that barrier? Or do they limit their rationality only on the safe waters? Behind every new invention, which was before unimaginable, was a hard work of people who made measurable, what initially wasn't. Normal logics is rather a mechanic process, a mapped path. Someone already verified that long ago. Surely, it's complicated area of knowledge, but it's already well known. Someone must expand that knowledge. Everything is logical, but not everything is objectively measurable unless someone makes it so. I admit that things which aren't yet commonly mastered are attractive for me. I didn't discover anything really new, but I've got a vague idea how big is what yet remains to be discovered. There will be always a problem of unprovable "homework eaten by dog" but this is a problem of those who comfortably wait for others to prove everything, so they can graciously give it an official consent.
A development is one thing, it's development in a certain direction, but someone must also invent the directions for development. A knowledge may be superior in one area, and may not even step into another area. Visionaries must first fight for their place in society. I don't like that, I'd like to skip that process of useless doubting and ridiculing. Every new thing should be welcomed, highlighted and understood from within, before a final judgement can be made.

You'd be surprised, how much a norms affects us. Who dictates what is possible and impossible, sane and insane, sets the rate of society's development. Norms are protective, but restrictive. Pushing the norms forward, and being aware, that they can be pushed infinitely, should itself become a norm!