If god created us, are we property?
Offline This will seem to be a bit random, but bear with me here:
I was watching "The Nightmare Before Christmas" last night when I noticed that a parallel can be made between the mad scientist character and some peoples' concepts of god. In the film the mad scientist shouts at Sally (a Frankenstein's monster he made) that he created her, so she is his property. He treats her like a slave in this film and this is his excuse for imprisoning her and keeping her as a servant.
This got me thinking about this excuse for abusing someone and I remembered that in The Jesus Incident by Frank Herbert, the book's antagonist does the same thing. This antagonist takes clones of people and has them tortured or raped. His excuse for his actions is that clones are artificially made, so they are property, and he will do with his property as he pleases.
What got me seeing the parallel between these abusive, controlling fictional characters and some peoples' concept of god is that I have had a friend actually tell me that since god made everyone, we are his property and he will use us as he sees fit. My friend told me this as a way of excusing god from any bad things that happen. I think it is a bit ironic that movie and book antagonists that use this excuse are seen as the monsters that they are, but some people can not see that a god doing the same thing is just as bad.
I wonder what theists would say if they read The Jesus Incident and were asked if the antagonist's excuse for rape and torture was legitimate? Of course any theist who does not use the "god created us so we are his property" excuse for the problem of evil need not try and defend such a claim.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
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OP - "If god created us, are we property?" //// ~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, This is the idol worshipers magic bable .... ( and magic is an illusion)
IF ? God ? Created ? Us ? WE ? Property ?
What is any of that ? ....
LOL 
( me just playing with all words .... ) *
There is no such thing as ownership ..... it's impossible , an illusion ....
Atheism Books.
God always gets carte blanche in shallow theology. The "all part of his master plan" mantra is much easier to recite than thinking about why one's traditions are silly. But you reach the obvious conclusion: doing bad things is bad regardless. Our morality supersedes God.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Yeah, but if someone made a good movie that actually portrayed god as a dispassionate unfeeling puppeteer who sees us as his property to be trashed if he sees fit then many theists would protest and organize boycotts, particularly if it was clearly indicated as being the christian god. (that's my guess, anyway)
Your friend's view is somewhat, no wait, incredibly silly. I have seen nowhere in the bible that god creates human life, per se. The only 2 human beings god allegedly created was adam and eve (2 of the stupidest creatures in fiction as well). Last time I saw humans had these things called sex organs.
The supposed global flood is one example where god was to have viewed mankind as chattle and indiscrimanately killed man, woman and child. I find this act of an omni-scient being inexcusable even if we were mere property. More often than not christians, jews and muslims will defend god by saying that it was his creation to do with as he pleased, proposterous! I find no comfort in praising a blood thirsty being as this.
All other things aside, gawd I love that movie, but never thought of the parallels you mentioned. I might even read The Jesus Incident, thanks.
"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS
The Jesus Incident was one of Frank Herbert's not-so-great novels. He wrote a few amazing ones (Dune) and lots of so-so ones. This is a so-so one. Also if you have read Dune you will be disappointed to find that he recycled characters from this novel into Dune. I'm not going to spoil it, but I was disappointed that two of the characters in The Jesus Incident were almost carbon copies of characters from Dune and God Emperor of Dune.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
Well, you know, when you've got a God-Emperor and a Messianic firstborn son in your books... they kinda find their way into everything!
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
Not quite. The characters I was talking about was one just like the Baron Harkonnen and one just like Siona but with the inhuman strength of Nayla. The woman with incredible strength can be overlooked, but the bad guy who was just like the Baron is too hard to ignore. Though in this one he only wanted to rape women, rather than boys. Besides that minor difference I think he is a carbon copy of the Baron. Oh well, it is a decent sci-fi novel. If you are expecting something on the caliber of Dune I would look elsewhere. Also this book's look into theology centers around a thought-reading despotic computer that rules all of mankind, rather than the Baron-like guy. Still, it was a rather neat way of looking at god.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
Yes we are God's property but God is one master you would want to have. All he wants from us is our love and obediance and in return he will offer us, eternal peace, infinite widsom, infinite love, eternal joy and etc. You already have your lowly masters may they be addiction to porn, sex, food, violance, etc. Those are your masters because if you're addicted to them, any addiction you have you're a slave to and it's your master. Your fellow men are your masters as well they tell you what to do inorder to be a part of their society. Don't go pretending you are self created and a free individual there are many forces weighing you down and impressing it selfs on your mind.
If you don't want God to be your master then your only choice is to reject him and what he has to offer you. You will have no true home and be adrift and vulnerable to whatever enviroment you put yourself in.
Bleeeat!
Sorry I don't want a master whatever he wants to do for me, cooperating with other humans beings is compulsory (well not if you are into libertarianism) but that doesnt make them my master.
There is absolutely zero evidence for god but even if you could show overwhelmingly that he existed I would still reject an evil tyrant that merely wanted my 'love and obediance'
So all you did was trade your addiction to substance for an addiction to the insubstantial?
How desperate does one have to be for a fix to be addicted to the nonexistent?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Other than in your post, where is this exchange offered?
[/sarcasm on] gee... what a concept, compassionate slavery! I suppose belonging is okay, I mean after all, a compassionate slave owner is compassionate, right? Never mind the fact you get punished for doing what the compassionate slave owner determines you shouldn't do, after all, you BELONG. Gotta love it [/sarcasm off]
Llama, do you really want to be compared to the people that did this:
Vote for McCain... www.therealmccain.com ...and he'll bring Jesus back
Remember all those Bible verses about God either directly slaughtering a lot of people, or at least ordering the slaughter to be carried out by "his special people?" The answer that I was taught (to be used when others questioned this,) was that God had made us, and as his creation, we basically had nothing to say about whatever he wanted to do to us, regardless of his motivations. ("Every breath you take is a grace," of course.)
Conor
chaos theory.... makes anything posible and at the same time infinatly imposible. if you understood that then you didnt understand a single thing Im trying to convey, therefor il just vouch for chaos theory instead of god as my creator'Es? creator"IT?... help me out here.. whats the word for the "idea that created me"? k... i dont know where im going with this... its like 3 am.
p.S I did it for the lol's
If that is your concern, might I suggest that you take a peek into Buddhism? That religion actually deals with how to free yourself from the unavoidable suffering that comes with chasing after earthly desires. It is still a cop-out if you use it as a religion, but as a philosophy, there's useful stuff there.
And it is less then a cop-out then Christianity anyway.
There is nothing to reject because there is nothing there, But anyway:
"A True Home" is an earthly desire if you demand that this something for ever that you will never lose, and heaven is a combined figment of the imagination of thousands of deluded people. And yes, we are all vulnerable to whatever environment we put ourselves in. Which is a good thing to keep in mind: even though we often tend to forget it, we are, after all part of nature, just like any other animal.
Here again, an atheistic angel friend .....
"Wisdom of the Buddha" , 8 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTsb-woP3jI
Atheism Books.