The God Delusion
Offline I just finished reading it (this was my beach novel, couldn't put it down). All I have to say is...wow. What an amazing read. I feel so much more educated and better equipped at fighting theism. Everyone should read it.
My favorite points were on evolutionary reasons for developing morality and how religion could be a byproduct of other evolutionary benefits.
Like Dawkins, I often have consciousness-raising experiences. Sometimes I'll have a revelation about the universe or the world that is so hard for my mind to grasp but nevertheless so awe-inspiring. That feeling is far more powerful and rewarding than any "beneficial" lie religion has to offer.
*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*
"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby
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I totally agree with you. Dawkins is so refreshing, sustaining. I just picked up an classic on the clearance table at Barnes and Noble, RELIGION & GODS by the great humanist/philosopher Robert Ingersoll. Known as "the Great Agnostic," Ingersoll questioned the existence of God and Christian tenets back in the late 1800's. He was quite an orator, very eloquent and direct. Although it was written more than 100 years ago, it is extremely relevant today.
Happy reading!
RRoss
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If you want a lighter read that doesn't go into all the gory details that Dawkins does, check out Dr. Stephen Uhl's "Imagine No Superstion."
It's a pretty short read, but it gets straight to the point. I could hardly put it down. Also, it is much kinder to the uninitiated, using much smaller words and is a bit easier to understand than Dawkins.
Your god's silence speaks loud and clear
Definitely give Dennett a read if you like Dawkins's take on memetics.
It's okay, but Stephen King is a way better writer.
Yeah, lots of great books and the FCC TV fucking sucks.
I wish it was the law that all to be elected for government must read a short list of atheist books. The x priest of 17 yrs turned atheist, Dr. Stephen Uhl's, "Imagine No Superstition" would be one of them.
Read the book reviews in Amazon etc.
Here's RRS Rook with Dr. Stephen Uhl
http://mefeedia.com/entry/rook-with-dr-stephen-uhl/10275628/
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/12/14/031136.php
Atheism Books.
I'm not familiar with your sense of humor Jello, but you're joking right?
WWSD - What Would Scooby Doo?
Well Dawkins got me back to University aged 36 ( studying life sciences specialising in evolution) , made me active in the British humanist/secular movement and generally got me preaching the word of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
Sure I was an atheist way since basically the day I was born but he made me active
as a person who reads voraciously (my wife complains about my reading like other wives complain about video games or tv), particularly american literature, i contend that stephen king has way more literary talent than the book snobs will ever admit. he's as underrated by the ivory tower as bukowski, but he sells 100 times more books, so that makes them look even more down their noses.
dawkins is a great thinker but his prose is readable, not inspiring. i mean, i devour leon trotsky but i wouldn't compare his abilities to steinbeck. or stephen king.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
that sounds almost like what the zen monks and jack kerouac call a satori. reminds me of karl marx's take on the mystical feeling: it's really just boredom, the abstract mind's desire for content, which can only be found in the natural world.
you're looking to the natural world already, so you're a step beyond the philosophers.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I'm no book snob, but I wouldn't put steinbeck and stephen king in the same sentence.
WWSD - What Would Scooby Doo?
well, one, i didn't put them in the same sentence, and two, i happen to think that stephen king is the best american author at portraying everyday american culture, particularly proletarian culture, since john steinbeck. for example, i would rate king's short story "the tale of the laundrey game" right up there with certain passages from "east of eden" in that respect.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Growing up in Central Maine on or about 1973/74 I worked at an industrial laundry in Bangor, a-yuah, called itself New Frankland Laundry, yu betcha! Even used that horny quaker as an emblem. Ben Frankland I talk of, no doubt. I had a co-worker name ah Stevie, he kept sayin' "Call me Steve", we didn't a-course like he all that much ya see.
Stevie spent a lotta time between loads braggin' 'bout his education, univeristy of Maine an all, up at Oreno; now that's juss pass Viezie if yoah wonderin'. We with the no-colledge education noticed the he don't do the loads any different then us that didn't go to U. of M. at Oreno. Stevie we figgure was over educated and a real asshole ta boot.
Later I was educated in Canada. I was born in Canada, I simply grew up in Maine. Stevie the asshole was and is Stephen King. I know him before he became rich and famous, I was never impressed. Stephan King has done a great deal for the city of Bangor, boyo does he have the money for it. I went to Toronto and never looked back.
The reason I mention the first three paragraphs here is because 1) I know Brian Sapient will read it sooner or later and I am trying to get on the live pod cast. And 2) John Steinbeck also had hometown boys who knew when he was an asshole.
Steinbeck & King are equals. They both wrote of the life and times THEY LIVED in. They both used dialect and euphamisims that existed in THIER TIME. I can't swear to Steinbeck, but only relate what others have written about him. It is extremly similar to what I can swear to about Stephen King. I don't like King, never did. I've read some of his books. Yet his central Maine charactors are dead on. Steinbeck I can only trust is as accurate with his charactors.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
excellent story. i don't doubt he's a prick. i heard the same about steinbeck. most artists of any stripe are pricks. i knew plenty of would-be writers, painters, actors, musicians, etc., in college and 95% of them were fuckin' assholes. and they all sucked. it's only logical the good ones are usually even pissier.
me, i'm a musician myself, and better than most i went to school with. i'm an asshole too, but in the antisocial, mysanthropic sense, so it usually stays in my head. most of the artists i knew were assholes in the very vocal, prima donna sense. those are the ones i can't fucking stand. they scream for attention and throw tantrums when they don't get it fast enough. me, i usually just think to myself, "don't wanna pay attention to me? fine, fuck you. you're paying attention to me? fuck you too, because it's probably for the wrong reasons. ask me to play 'man of constant sorrow' or 'big rock candy mountain' and i'll fuck you up."
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I think it's funny how this has turned into an argument on authors. Stephen King is an amazing author, but he's got a very different talent than Dawkins'. If I want a good horror story with depth and chills, I'll read King. If I want to be inspired and enlightened, I'll pick up Dawkins. They're both important.
*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*
"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby
I'm in the same boat. Away on holiday, i brought along The God Delusion (to the horror of my father) and essentially devoured it. Luckily, i brought The Blind Watchmaker along as well, so i'm not out of material!
Dawkins is inspiring but a little hard to swallow in the language department. As someone else stated already, he does not spare much to the uninitiated. However difficult someone may find his prose though, I am amazed at the man's reasoning and ability to provide manageable analogies to get his point across.
Essentially, this is the book that has finally allowed me to shed the "agnostic" light armor and openly proclaim myself an atheist.
i agree, as far as ideas go. i was strictly talking about their abilities in written english. there have been a few thinkers with genuine literary talent. nietzsche springs to mind. so does camus, but he wrote novels and plays as well as essays anyway.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I have the same feeling of "awe" when my cat cuddles up to me but how anyone can fill in the gap with super heros in white robes or men in red leotards is beyond me. Thor doesn't cause my cat to cuddle up to me anymore than Isis or Jesus. Nature will suffice as an answer and comic book claims cheapen that reality when given as an answer.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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