The New Atheist Crusaders and their quest for the Unholy Grail
Offline Hey all. It's been a while since I've been on. I appologise, I've been busy.
The title of this forum is the title of a book I just finished reading. It's a catchy title, so I figured it'd be a good way to grab someone's attention on here. The book is written by Becky Garrison.
If her name doesn't sound familiar, that's fine, it shouldn't. So why am I wasting your time telling you about this book? Well, I'm glad you asked. This is a book written by a True Christian. HUH? For all of you who have discussed with me in the past, you understand what I'm talking about and for those of you who haven't you can research my blogs. Caposkia is my name.
Anyway, It's written from the viewpoint of how a true Christian feels about of course the atheists in the world today, but more importantly for you, how she feels about Christians in the world.
This is for all of you arguing with me about how Christians have to be black and white. How you have to follow a religion and there's nothing outside of religion etc. She touches on all of this. I truly think you'll enjoy reading this book and I would like to hear from those of you who have read it if anyone. If not, I"ll wait till someone finishes it. It's not a very long book.
When I first came onto this site, I wanted to discuss directly with those who were involved in the infamous television debate that RRS was involved in about the existence of God with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. They didn't have time and the other non-believers I came across were too opinionated to involve themselves in a conversation that made any progress. Instead I got into other debates which for the most part were a lot of fun, but I digress.
Becky mentions this debate as well in her book at the end. This is for all of you on here I've talked to who would not believe me or had other personal issues with the fact that my opinion didn't flow with their idea of a Christian. I will breifly say that I hold her viewpoint when she says that if she was at that debate, she would have "crawled out of that church in shame. "
Simply put, we both agree that both sides put forth deplorable excuses for their side and did not defend their side succesfully. I know I know, many of you will disagree and say that RRS did disprove the existance of God in that debate, but enough with the opinions, I'm saying the other side did just as good of a job proving God. This debate is a poor excuse to not follow Christ and this book talks about those types of Christians.
This book should clarify many misunderstandings of how True Christians are and I hope bring light to a new understanding of our following.
It is written differently than most books, but is an informational peice and uses a lot of researched information. It does focus on the "New Atheists" and is not a book preaching to the masses. As said, it is from the point of view of a True Christian.
enjoy, let me know your thoughts. I would also request, please be respectful in your responses. I'm here to have mature discussions with people.
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Offline I understand you're very convicted in your beliefs. Please though, if you want me to follow your understanding, you're going to have to present evidence for your side.
I'm not the one who claims that dead human flesh can reconstitute itself. I do know that human flesh does not survive rigor mortis. That is not "my" evidence. THAT is medical evidence that is backed up by prior data, long before I was born.
I can't help it if your fan club put together a work of fiction and took over 1,000 years to do so and had no knowledge of modern science. Don't blame me for something I did not write.
If you don't want to accept that the death of Jesus is made up fiction, I cant help you. I can tell you that human flesh cannot, has not, nor ever will survive rigor mortis.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Offline as much as it's a story you didn't buy because you don't like the idea of not being in control.
That is 
LMAO funny. 
You're kidding right? Where the heck did that come from? Is life a game of capture the flag to you, and daddy gets the planet? Is that what you are projecting on me because of your own insecurity that you cant replicate the claims in your book?
I am 1 of 6 billion people, please do not accuse me of wanting to be in control of 6 billion people, that is absurd. I am merely pointing out to you that human flesh does not survive rigor mortis, no matter how much you want it to so you can prop up holding your myth.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Offline You're guilty of a crime, whether you want to admit it or not. He took the sentence off your head.
Please stop embarrassing yourself.
Again, you simply like the idea of a magical super hero, and because such an idea appeals to you, you like also thinking such a being gave humans law.
I am no more subject to the laws of your fictional magical Jesus than I would be if you claimed that human's laws came from Harry Potter.
I am bound, by the same nature of evolution in that I am capable of the same emotions and actions as any other human.
Laws are written by US, not Jesus, or Allah or Yahwey, or Osirus or Thor.
It is all in your head, and when you realize that, you will be greatfull to us that we helped you escape your dogmatic mind shackles.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Offline Geezz Brian37 
, the way you put your words together, so often makes me instantly bust out belly laughing ... feels good ... "How self centered. A masochist tortures himself to prove to me he loves me/by killing himself for himself so I can kiss his butt. Sounds more like a disturbed stalker, than a hero."
.... yeah, and caring Cap, no supernatural thingy anything, put together, designed, nor created the 100% natural laws of physics (all existence). Why seriously fantasize on such ideas? Besides, anything that could possibly exist outside our natural ability of perception is simply beyond human perception ... Like a dog chasing it's tail and thinking it's getting somewhere. Thousands of yrs of inventing religions and searching for a "higher power" has got us no where of valve, except to show many of us the huge error of human reasoning and folly.
"Stop believing, Start thinking" 
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Offline Geezz Brian37
.... yeah, and caring Cap, no supernatural thingy anything, put together, designed, nor created the 100% natural laws of physics (all existence). Why seriously fantasize on such ideas? Besides, anything that could possibly exist outside our natural ability of perception is simply beyond human perception ... Like a dog chasing it's tail and thinking it's getting somewhere. Thousands of yrs of inventing religions and searching for a "higher power" has got us no where of valve, except to show many of us the huge error of human reasoning and folly.
"Stop believing, Start thinking"
In all seriousness, you know I like you, but even you don't get a pass from me nor my fangs. Sometimes even what you say makes me cringe. But, I am am always happy to be comic releif to anyone.
And to Cap, even though I am serious in my blunt criticism, always keep in mind that I like shiny objects.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
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Offline I'm not the one who claims that dead human flesh can reconstitute itself. I do know that human flesh does not survive rigor mortis. That is not "my" evidence. THAT is medical evidence that is backed up by prior data, long before I was born.
I can't help it if your fan club put together a work of fiction and took over 1,000 years to do so and had no knowledge of modern science. Don't blame me for something I did not write.
If you don't want to accept that the death of Jesus is made up fiction, I cant help you. I can tell you that human flesh cannot, has not, nor ever will survive rigor mortis.
uh... yea, you missed the point that THAT was the point. The fact that the Bible again "points that out" suggests that they weren't trying to hide that scientific understanding.
Oh ok, so they didn't use the words "rigor mortis" though used a good substitute to acknowlege that human flesh should not have survived by saying, uh... dude! don't go in the cave. The body's going to stink!
I'll say again that most people who are trying to make up something and expect others to believe it aren't going to point out evidences that might make their story less believable.
try again.
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Offline That is
You're kidding right? Where the heck did that come from? Is life a game of capture the flag to you, and daddy gets the planet? Is that what you are projecting on me because of your own insecurity that you cant replicate the claims in your book?
I am 1 of 6 billion people, please do not accuse me of wanting to be in control of 6 billion people, that is absurd. I am merely pointing out to you that human flesh does not survive rigor mortis, no matter how much you want it to so you can prop up holding your myth.
I'm glad you see my point then. The purpose of that statement was to point out that my claim (which was the same as your claim from the other side) was quite absurd.
Try again.
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Offline Please stop embarrassing yourself.
Again, you simply like the idea of a magical super hero, and because such an idea appeals to you, you like also thinking such a being gave humans law.
I am no more subject to the laws of your fictional magical Jesus than I would be if you claimed that human's laws came from Harry Potter.
I am bound, by the same nature of evolution in that I am capable of the same emotions and actions as any other human.
Laws are written by US, not Jesus, or Allah or Yahwey, or Osirus or Thor.
It is all in your head, and when you realize that, you will be greatfull to us that we helped you escape your dogmatic mind shackles.
you can't help but use magical because that's your only way of justifying your beliefs.... eh, I'm sure you can do better than that. Anyway, nice. try again.
So by your justification, the US wrote the laws of your emotions as well... along with scientific laws.
alright, I'll buy. what else you got for me?
yea, I'm sure you're going to go off on some tangent about how scientific laws aren't what you were talking about and that flesh can't survive rigor mortis and such. Get out of your box for a second and take a look around. Obviously telling me matter of fact beliefs of your own without anything to back them up isn't going to work for me. I know it wouldn't work for you.
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The OT said you could beat a slave till it took him a day or two to die but not so he died immediately. Jesus and Paul had no such restriction (after all Jesus supposedly fulfilled the Law so it didn't apply to believers). Notice the difference?
Christ would not beat you - just condemn you to hell for not kissing his tush. I'd prefer a beating to Christ's kind of "love".
Who needs to pull verses out of context? The're lousy enough as they are.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I actually find it fascinating to discuss the differences as I would be more likely to accept Judaism in some form then Christianity if it wasn't for the problem of an origin in mythology and the reliance on the unknown as real.
I was interested enough to buy the book you suggested and I would discuss her book in more detail but we continue to get detoured. Perhaps we can try again?
I'll look for it.
I was being satirical to see if you'd notice the fictional part.
Revelation has been so misconstrued and much dogma has grown from it that has become hard core belief in several sects. It is one of many 'interpreted' sections that cause diversity and it's inaccuracies if taken literal are ammo for the atheist. There are several other ways to interpret John's ranting in Revelation however. Understanding what religious people propagate is important in understanding people and their motivations. I have read the Q'uran several times in my attempts to understand Muslims, over 25 years before 9/11 actually as I had several Islamic friends. I still have an Islamic friend but he has become an atheist, though he may always have been one; the freedom he found in the US instead of Iran may have brought it out.
I personally enjoy conversations with believers of all types as I really think a lot of people in general, and I see no reason to limit discussions to the weather. Many people are incapable of discussing issues of religion without becoming irritated or irrational over the discussion. Consider the following as a compliment, you are a person that is reasonable and open to such discussion even though you probably will not ever succeed in proselytizing with someone like me. There is not enough of reasonable discourse in this world and when one finds it, it is enjoyable. If more people would discuss issues and not bring out the F18s perhaps the world would be a better place. I also realize there is an extremely low possibility of you making a sudden deconversion to the world of atheism but perhaps such discourse can result in better acceptance of diverse views by those claiming to be theists. I've had much practice with theists as I have a sister that is a fundamentalist and a niece that is a missionary. I also have had long discussions with an evangelical singer and a administrator from a ministry center. These two were customers of mine at a tanning salon I owned in Orlando for 15 years. I also have an ex girlfriend with whom I'm still friendly even though she is another fundie. The ex condition was unrelated to religion, she's has other problems though not enough to ditch her as a friend.
Obama has said that he is willing to have discussions with both Cuba and Iran. I see this as a door opening to further reduce the level of hatred in the world. I see discussions between theists and atheists as a similar thing. That's how these discussions are relevant to me and why I take the time to research and understand ideas that I may never accept.
PS: It's really a hidden agenda to understand most major religions in the event any one of them decides to bring back the Inquisition and burn heretics or infidels at the stake. It might buy me enough time to escape across the border.
____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
I like that pauljohn ...
Hey, bright jcgadfly. From my limited reading of wise1800's Nietzsche and others, I often find a simple non christian, atheistic (non deity belief / faith) appreciation of "story jesus", which hopefully helps explain my style of atheistic "preaching" using "religion jargon". Yeah, I could obviously use alot of improvement.
See short part 4 of this short essay. Maybe you will get a little something positive out of it. ???
Nietzsche's "The Antichrist", by Travis J. Denneson - Part 4 , IV. The Buddhistic Jesus?
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/travis_denneson/antichrist.html
Atheism Books.
Please reference that. I don't remember reading it.
I have no idea what religion you grew up with, but that's not the Christ I know. The Christ I know died for you so that you may live.
The idea is if you're condemned to hell, it was your own actions that made that so. Jesus came down and took the hit for you basically.
As far as pulling verses out of context. It seems that's the only way a non-believer can make the Bible look bad. It's the only excuse I've seen so far from 90% of the people on here.
A great reason why I suggested the book.
If you find benefit in it, i'm willing to start a new forum about it and discuss what I know. Don't get me wrong. I'm not an expert in the Jewish faith. I know bits and peices here and there.
Sure, I appreciate you taking me seriously. let's try to stay on topic.
There's a link for it somewhere amidst the pages of this forum. Butterbattle started it.
well alright then.
As I've mentioned many times, I'm not a fan of religion. I feel it's seperatism and the Christ of the Bible that I have come to know is not about seperatism.
Anyway, it sounds like you have perfect reason to discuss Revelation and understanding that the conversation about Revelation is not going to convert you or I to each others following is a good ground to start from.
If you'd like to, start another forum, or let me know and I'll start one, we can get on that.
1. Which reference would you like?
2. Bible-believing - just like yours
3. By "making the Bible look bad" do you mean "trying to make sense of the Bible as written instead of adding a pretty interpretation to it"?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Cap, before you go accusing atheists of taking the bible out of context, why don't you and all who claim to be Christians have a pow wow and get on the same page.
How self centered. A masochist tortures himself to prove to me he loves me/by killing himself for himself so I can kiss his butt. Sounds more like a disturbed stalker, than a hero.
Here is the reality, your Jesus hero did not magically reconstitute his flesh, and I am already alive, right now typing this.
Spare us you emotional appeal, "I did it all for you". That is merely a story you baught because you like the idea of having a magical super hero.
I have much more respect for the REAL soldiers in WW2 who died to maintain my freedom, than a claim of a magical split personality who allegedly escaped losing all his blood, had his brain and vital organs stop all the way down to the celular level, only to get up 3 days later to dance the jig.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Any you're willing to give. We can go from there.
That doesn't narrow it down. You have efficiently exampled how easy it is for any "Bible Believing" sect can change the words to fit their idealism.
c'mon, I thought you were smarter than that. You also should know me better than that by now.
I mean by trying to make sense of the Bible as written instead of pulling out something that sounds bad so that your interpretation can make all Christians look like masochists.
Remember, according to the Bible, your dog should drink your blood. oh, and it's ok to rape your wife's sister too. (just so there's no confusion, it's just more text taken out of context) Oh, it's so easy to do if you don't try.
You've hit the nail on the head Brian. That's the problem with dispensationalism. Just like many (NOT ALL) non-believers, even when they're shown the truth of the texts, they still don't want to accept it.
I'd say that when all who claim to be Christian are on the same page, there will also be no more non-believers. They're both just about as likely. This is why I hate religion.
You say that as if you didn't need him to do that for you. I guess if that was the case, then of course your view would be correct. The point is, if he didn't do it for you, you'd have to do it.
You're guilty of a crime, whether you want to admit it or not. He took the sentence off your head.
It's going to go nowhere to argue about that unless you're actually a believer in the spiritual realm. I wouldn't expect you to accept that unless you were.
you're right, magic isn't a part of it.
as much as it's a story you didn't buy because you don't like the idea of not being in control.
Are you really here to make a point?
I understand you're very convicted in your beliefs. Please though, if you want me to follow your understanding, you're going to have to present evidence for your side.