In need of advice

FreeThinker2012
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In need of advice

Hello to all. I'm new to this site.
I live in a xian home, however I'm the 'odd man out' so to speak. I have to endure all of their blind faith comments/sentiments & goody-2-shoes behavior (even though they are moderate xtians). I've tried to set up some questions for them that might jeopardize their faith (or at least make them actually think about what they believe), but to no avail. I can't just abandon my family all together -it's not really in my nature. Does anyone have any advice as to how I should deal w/ such a predicament? Thanks in advance.


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Hi there,Welcome to the

Hi there,

Welcome to the forums.

There doesn't seem to be any good reason you've mentioned as to why you would have to abandon your family at all.  Do they know you're the 'odd one out'?    If so, I think the questions that would be the most effective would depend on why they themselves believe in the first place.  If not, do you think there would be any repercussions for you?

Do they believe in Jesus because the New Testament gospels are eyewitness accounts?  If so, do they know that the first gospel (Mark) wasn't written down until somewhere around 65CE, in Greek, then Luke and Matthew used that as a source 10-15 years later.

Do they believe because the living world is so diverse and amazing, too complex to happen by 'mere chance'?  Look into evolution and see how it really works.

There's lots of different reasons, so the best questions and topics of discussion all depend on that.


Kavis
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FreeThinker2012 wrote:Hello

FreeThinker2012 wrote:
Hello to all. I'm new to this site. I live in a xian home, however I'm the 'odd man out' so to speak. I have to endure all of their blind faith comments/sentiments & goody-2-shoes behavior (even though they are moderate xtians). I've tried to set up some questions for them that might jeopardize their faith (or at least make them actually think about what they believe), but to no avail. I can't just abandon my family all together -it's not really in my nature. Does anyone have any advice as to how I should deal w/ such a predicament? Thanks in advance.

 

Depends on what you want.  If you want to convert them, then read up. Order some books on the subject and read them thoroughly.  Leave them lying around in prominent places. Keep it civil, though, even if they don't.  After all, they're family, and you have to live with them if you're not going to be moving away.

Or you could just talk to them.  Just tell them that you're not comfortable discussing religion with them anymore, and you'd like to let the subject drop.  You won't try to deconvert them so long as they keep their irrational beliefs to themselves.

Edit: If you go the second route, make sure you have something to back up your polite request.  If they're just insistent on saving your soul, you will probably have to do something a little more drastic.  Like plastering their vehicles with Darwin fish or something.

Religion is a virus.
Fight the infection.


Wonderist
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I would say don't bother

I would say don't bother trying to change them. That is pointless and leads to frustration. Instead, just become comfortable in your own beliefs and the reasons why you don't believe in their superstitions. When it comes up in conversation, you can calmly explain, "I know you think everyone here believes that, but I personally don't and would prefer it if you don't assume that's the only way to believe." Or whatever. I'm saying to learn how to stick up for yourself and your beliefs without taking it personal when they tell you you're going to Hell, or whatever they believe.

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I AM GOD AS YOU
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Cut to the chase, tell them

Cut to the chase, tell them they are god, just as you are, with a smile ....

As cool Alan Watts wrote: "The religion of Jesus was that he knew he was a son of God, and the phrase "son of " means "of the nature of," so that a son of God is an individual who realizes that he is, and always has been, one with God. "I and the Father are one." .......... and,  "Let this mind be in you." that is to say, let the same kind of [rational] consciousness be in you that was in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ knew he was God." [ you and all are christ too ]

"Wake up" [said a buddha] and find out eventually who you also really are [ god ]. In our culture of course, they'll say you're crazy or you're blasphemous, and they'll either put you in jail or in the nut house (which is the same thing). But if you wake up in India and tell your friends and relations, "My goodness, I've just discovered that I'm God," they'll laugh and say, "Oh, congratulations, at last you found out." ~ Alan Watts

    SIMPLE


darth_josh
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FreeThinker2012 wrote:Hello

FreeThinker2012 wrote:
Hello to all. I'm new to this site. I live in a xian home, however I'm the 'odd man out' so to speak. I have to endure all of their blind faith comments/sentiments & goody-2-shoes behavior (even though they are moderate xtians). I've tried to set up some questions for them that might jeopardize their faith (or at least make them actually think about what they believe), but to no avail. I can't just abandon my family all together -it's not really in my nature. Does anyone have any advice as to how I should deal w/ such a predicament? Thanks in advance.

 

What were the questions you've already asked? Give me an example so that I can know whether you want to be militant or tactful.

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FreeThinker2012
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"in need of advice"

Hi. Thanks for your reply. They know I'm the one who questions things (life in general) the most - bar none. By abandoning my family, I mean not communicating w/ them again.

As far as repercussions go, yes. For example, my dad (especially) has threatened me w/ "if you reject God & the bible, we'll pretty much disown you as our son".

I'm fairly sure they're aware of the fact that the gospel accounts were not recorded until circa 65 CE. They just can't stand it when I bring up things that challenge their faith. They probably just want the 'fantasy island' belief to never fade away - who knows?

As far as evolution, they probably think it's possible. They're not trying to refute that, but I think they do try to refute "dangerous philosophical questions" that might 'lead them astray'. They think all of my internet inquiry is "dangerous to my eternal soul".

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FreeThinker2012
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"in need of advice"

Thanks for the advice.

It's very difficult, because I'm the only one in my family who's the real "doubting Thomas". They never want to read anything (be it books, online literature, etc.) about what 'the other side of the fence' has to say about the bible, the afterlife, etc.

My theory: they're deathly afraid of being wrong & that their faith will be severly jeopardized.

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
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FreeThinker2012
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"in need of advice"

Thanks for the advice. I'll have to try that one.


FreeThinker2012
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"in need of advice" post

The one that had them slightly baffled was: freewill vs. God's omniscience.

The second one was one that I kind of came up w/ (I'm not saying I'm the first one to have come up w/ this), but I said "mom & dad, what do you think we would do w/ all of this excess space in the universe in the afterlife - would God allow us to go 'planet-hopping' or something like that?!

How could heaven reside in planets within other galaxies, let alone our Milky Way galaxy?! Her response was: "all of that 'vastness' in the universe is because of God's 'majesty'".

Another question I had for them is: why did 'God' create some insects that cause no harm to humans and some insects that DO cause harm to humans?! In other words, how is this all a part of "God's plan"?! She had no answer for that one.

Jesus didn't ride a donkey don't ya know, he rode an Apotasaurus!
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Freethinker. This is largely

Freethinker. This is largely why I don't go the, "I reject god route", and instead say I reject the way people and traditional religion interprets the ancient bibles. I will say all is simply gawed and no religion has explained it, and that science is how I prefer to study gawed.

This helps me side track silly arguing with the religious. I might also say, that jesus seems a good but minunderstood dude, but I will accept no idol of worship.


scole665
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God who?

natural wrote:

I would say don't bother trying to change them. That is pointless and leads to frustration. Instead, just become comfortable in your own beliefs and the reasons why you don't believe in their superstitions. When it comes up in conversation, you can calmly explain, "I know you think everyone here believes that, but I personally don't and would prefer it if you don't assume that's the only way to believe." Or whatever. I'm saying to learn how to stick up for yourself and your beliefs without taking it personal when they tell you you're going to Hell, or whatever they believe.

 

This sounds like sound advise to me. Just prepare, as best you can, for the worst if it ever comes to proverbial pushing and shoving. 

god -- I tried you on for size.... you were a little long in the crotch, loose in the waist, short in the length and you made my butt look extra flat. I had to take you back for an exchange.


darth_josh
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FreeThinker2012 wrote:The

FreeThinker2012 wrote:
The one that had them slightly baffled was: freewill vs. God's omniscience. The second one was one that I kind of came up w/ (I'm not saying I'm the first one to have come up w/ this), but I said "mom & dad, what do you think we would do w/ all of this excess space in the universe in the afterlife - would God allow us to go 'planet-hopping' or something like that?! How could heaven reside in planets within other galaxies, let alone our Milky Way galaxy?! Her response was: "all of that 'vastness' in the universe is because of God's 'majesty'". Another question I had for them is: why did 'God' create some insects that cause no harm to humans and some insects that DO cause harm to humans?! In other words, how is this all a part of "God's plan"?! She had no answer for that one.

 

Since it looks like you're enjoying the scientific aspects of questioning, I would stick with that.

It also keeps the conversation from delving into the social aspects of religiosity, which can be quite emotionally heated at times. (i.e. choice, euthanasia, education)

There is always my favorite example of the flu shot. Did the parents or grandparents get flu shots? Why do they have to get new ones every year? Does god create a million new strains of influenza each year or does the virus mutate with the less survivable strains being naturally deselected?

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You can tell your father

You can tell your father (with a smile) that he rejects a whole swathe of gods himself, so it runs in the family. He also rejects quite a chunk of the christian god as the concept is defined in the bible, and therefore sizeable chunks of the bible itself. You're just carrying on his intelligent and perceptive groundwork in rejecting fallacies too.

 

On second thoughts, scratch that advice. Sound and all as it is, such an answer does tend to rile christians a lot for some reason and I wouldn't want to see you cast out on the streets. Can't think why it does, though - it's as complimentary as one can possibly get to a deluded person when making reference to their delusions!

I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy