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I'm Christian (go ahead try to fix me)
Posted on: September 13, 2008 - 2:17pm
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I'm Christian (go ahead try to fix me)
I noticed a slogon... "Believe in God? We can fix that." Go ahead and try to fix me. I want to test my faith. 
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Lamb, couple of quick questions...
Do you want to be fixed?
How badly do you want to rid yourself of your current belief system ?
As long as your not a drive by poster, this could be... entertaining... for both sides
Okay, Lamb. I'll start.
1. You might as well have titled this thread "I'm a brainwashed majority who believes in Santa Claus for adults" instead of "I'm Christian" (I think you meant to say "I'm 'a' Christian" by the way)
2. You can start by defining your flavor of Christianity. What sect do you ascribe too, or in a more layman's variety, what part of the mythology of Christianity, Christ, and the Abrahamic God do you disregard and which parts do you hold as "truth?"
3. Define god.
After you at least answer the second and third question posed we can continue.
Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)
In order to fix your belief you need to want to be fixed. What don't you like about your current belief system and why do you want it fixed?
What is your current belief system specifically?
What does it do for you?
What does it leave unanswered?
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
I believe in the KJV Bible, though I acknowledge that it's translated by man and has possible misconception. To define God is out of my wisdom other than to say, God.
Claiming you can't define god is a cop-out. OK, from your point of view you can't encompass "god" with a definition, but you sure can draw a rough sketch. Otherwise it's really difficult to discuss it.
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
1. Why do you choose to call the contradictions "misconceptions"?
2. I think Rook was asking (for the moment) "What do you think God is?" - I'm sure we'll get to why your definition is as poor as all the others. Are you saying you don't know what you believe about God well enough to articulate it to others? Why have that kind of belief at all?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I'm sorry if I was misleading in my post, but what I meant was: I'm a Christian who wants an Atheist to try to convert me to Atheism. I have no intentions on being converted, though. I merely want to debate and feel good about what we believe.
We can fix that, but you have to be willing to work the logic and examine the evidence. Without definitions of what exactly you were taught to believe, we really can't demonstrate it to be a myth like Santa Claus or faeries.
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
That certainly leaves a wide open position. There are many who believe and interpret the KJV Bible in many ways which is yours?
It's good to see you acknowledge the KJV Bible has problems specifically which "misconceptions" bother you?
Your definition of God is also wide open allowing for anything you don't understand. You probably don't do that with other concepts in the world though do you? If you don't grasp something do you just assume what you are told is correct? Or do you look into the basis of what has been presented with skepticism and questioning?
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
What I meant by misconception was that when translated, you can see a noticable difference between even the KJV and the NKJV. There may be such differances between the original Greek, Hebrew, and Roman texts to the KJV. Such differances may cause contradiction. However, I trust the KJV bible, because it survived so many years of torment.
It's a pithy slogan, but contrary to what you've heard everything doesn't go better with Coke, and people eating at McDonald's aren't loving it, but dying a little inside with every bite. You raise an interesting dilemma, though. In order to test something, the test must be framed in some context or the results are meaningless. To do that, the thing has to be articulated. By definition, religious faith "just is," or else isn't not faith at all, but some kind of conviction based on observation. If it is the latter, then surely there's some way to articulate it, and defend it beyond it just being so. So this is either, by definition, an impossible conversation to proceed with, or you do value reason more than faith.
I don't know of any misconceptions or contradictions in the KJV, but I do acknowledge they're existance. If you present some I am gladly willing to share my ideas.
I'll admit I'm a man of reason over faith. That makes me having faith, a wonderful feeling. However, if I wanted to discuss faithly, I would have gone to church and debate. This site is full of reason, which is why I'm here: to debate reasonably.
Good. I'll remember that.
Is it a feeling, more or less?
If that's the case, I wonder how you hope to reconcile the "reasoned" debate you seek with the goal of "stronger faith," since you've agreed that they're separate and contradictory ways to draw conclusions.
What I meant was that I come here to debate my belief, not to rejoice that I believe.
For a supposed 'man of reason' you sure do a lot of running from the issues. You have so far centered upon one claim and completely ignored all of the other questions and points you have been dealt. Stand and Fight or Run Away completely.
So I will rearticulate the points that have been made. What do you believe? Or would you rather we just start going through the generic problems with all religions, like none of them having even the slightest evidene to support them?
Sorry, I'm generally a pretty patient person, but I'm not going to waste my time playing twenty questions to try and pin down your particular brand of dogmatic self-dillusion. Either state what you believe or go away. As for discussing faithly over reasonably, faithly is the only way you can discuss religion. There's no reason involved in it.
When you say it like that you make it sound so Sinister...
Your right. I'm sorry, but there is only one true Christianity, and that Christianity believes and follows the KJV Bible, the only trustworthy translation to english. I attend Faith Babtist Church. I hate to say that I am part of a "sect" because that would acknowledge these others may be right. If it doesn't follow the KJV for the whole Word, how can it be called "Christian?"
So what makes a particular 16th century English translation better than any other?
The one with the unicorns?
I thought the same thing alot, but there are less contradictions in the KJV. If not, please prove it, because I want to know truth.
Are you replying to me? If so, I don't get it.
Also, still wondering how a "reasoned debate" can "strengthen faith" if you and I both agree they're incompatible ways to draw conclusions.
Your statement--- there is only one true christianity.......believes and follows the KJV bible....---. Sir that statment is "Bigotted" ; what of other christians who do not use the KJV --catholics, coptics, Syrian Mormans Mennonites, etc...?
Each member of every religion that has ever existed has likely said the exact same thing about their theology. That may be the most important reason of all to avoid religions and their imaginary deitys. I as an atheist can not HATE anyone based on something that simply does not exist.
I disreguard all religions equally, and I live without rivalry & hatreds.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Might I direct you to the following?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
ONe would think if it were truly from an omnipotent and omniscient God (never mind these are broken concepts) he/she/it would make sure every translation was perfect - and even if there was only 1 "correct" translation, it would have NO contradictions or absurdities.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Prove it. Why is the King James Version better than the original greek(*1)? because its the closest translation to the greek? Wouldn't that make the greek version still even much more better? (I seriously need to stop quoting those movies, Seriously) By that logic, if what makes the King James Version the best version is that it is closest to the original greek than can't the original greeks say the same thing about you, that you are not and cannot be called a 'Christian'?
Also, you also said it was a good translation because it didn't have as many contradictions(*2), but yet earlier you denied knowing of contradictions in it at all(*3)? So how can you make that claim?
Also, Don't just point at a book and say 'I believe that' tell me what it entails. You think I'm going to read the entire King James Bible just for this debate? No, I want you to describe what you believe god is, what he has promised to do, and why. If you cannot describe your god, how can you say you believe in him?
1: Based on your statement of 'the only trustworthy translation to english' from post 19.
2: Based on your statement of 'I thought the same thing alot, but there are less contradictions in the KJV. If not, please prove it, because I want to know truth.' in post 21.
3: Based on your statement of 'I don't know of any misconceptions or contradictions in the KJV' in post 13.
@ Jeffrick: YES WE CAN!
begin singing about 'Al the Atheist'
When you say it like that you make it sound so Sinister...
No one is here to test your faith. YOU need to have the ability, on your own to be unafriad to question what others have sold you. We have already gone through that process. If you want to know WHY we reject your deity claim it is quite simple.
For the same reason you would rightfully reject the absurd claim of Thor making lighting or Ra(Egyptian sun god) was actually a thinking being. When you understand WHY you reject those claims, you'll understand why we reject yours as well.
"Question with boldness the existence of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear" Thomas Jefferson.
We are not afraid of questioning you. But more importantly are YOU afraid of questioning yourself? That is where challenges are met and learning happens, no one can force that on you, it is something you have to want.
If all you want to do is preach at us, you are wasting our time and yours.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Oh boy, if I had a nickle for everytime I heard this fallacy|(True Scottsman fallacy) I would make Bill Gates look like a homeless person. When someone starts their first thread with a 101 mistake we know emediately they have brought an intelectual knife to an intelectual gunfight.
We have run into far more creative theists who wouldn't dare commit such a mistake and know we know what they know.
You might want to bone up on some research on what types of fallacies religious people commit before you challenge us. You are not dealing with amateurs at this site.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
First off, he is not just "my god," he is the god. I assumed you all already knew who I was talking about when I said, "I'm Christian." Secondly, thanks to whoever revealed to me about the Greeks being able to not call me Christian. It made me change my views on things. I didn't come here just to debate, but to grow as well.
The Majority of the world disagrees. There are plenty of us who say there is no actual God. Hindus would say there are more than 1. Moslems and Jews would likely say you worship the right god in the wrong way. Other religions would say your god is false.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
I know it looks like I am running from some questions and all, but I am posting from a handheld device. I do not currently have access to a computer now so my posts are limited to a small body of text.
A majority is only stronger. That doesn't make it correct.
Exclusivity being a premise reliant on others. For there to be a "the" rather than "my," absolute rather than relative, there has to be a thing to begin with; which you have not established beyond nakedly asserting exclusivity for a particular translation of those collected scriptures. So you're getting ahead of yourself.
Wait till you hear about the precursors to biblical stories.
Good.
This is true. The latter part, anyway. I'll remember you said this.
Unicorns refer to a ram with a missing horn.
Would you provide your source for this claim?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
They say you all are influenced by the devil, who is decieving you. Misleading you.
Being an atheist I don't believe in prophecy but I will personally predict that Lamb-Of-Truth will make little or no progress in overcoming his / her religious superstitions.....time will tell.
I guess you like your wireless contracts like your God, unlimited until you read the fine print.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Being a total atheist I can not and certainly do not believe in any devil--god--santa--baal -- need I go through the list. What we preach here is rational thaught process' the opposite of faith based uniformity. NO imaginary deitys of any kind good or bad or indifferent.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
How can you say atheism is different from theism. If theists can't explain it, God did it. If atheists can't explain it, we haven't discovered how, why, or what yet. Either way, you fill up the gaps with a broad statement that makes you feel right.
We have no proof God exists.
Saying we don't know is more honest than making something up.
just how is that a "broad statement"? that seems to me to be the very definition of "can't explain it."
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I'm sorry to have wasted your time, but I got a lot out of this. Just so you know, I love how those three brainwashed, or should I say "soulwashed," my once atheist mind with the blood of the one who knows all. My imaginary friend controls all but our minds. WE control our minds, allowing a flood of philosophy to drown our minds. You will not accept my view, and I already knew that. I was here to see life believing it has no life. Funny isn't. Thank you for your time.
That doesn't make sense. Blood in your brain would be a very bad thing. Souls are simply a primitive explanation for brain function. And more than likely Jesus never existed.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
no problem. glad we could help with your nature-watching experiment. come back to the fuckin' zoo anytime.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Bada Bing !!!
awh... he's leaving?
but we didnt get passed the ass reaming... and on to the good stuff...
Pity... he had so much entertainment potential
What Would Kharn Do?
BINGO!
If a majority of morons told you to jump off a cliff, just because they held the popular beleif that it was good, would you do it?
People once falsely believed that the sun was a thinking entity. People once falsely believed that Thor made lighting. People once falsely believed that the earth was flat. People once falsely believed that heart, and not the brain did the thinking. Unfortunately for humanity, most popular guesses at reality are far from it.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog