National Canadian Debate: Discuss!

Kevin R Brown
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National Canadian Debate: Discuss!

Man; we don't have a psychopathic beauty queen running for office, but (IMHO) the debate between Canadian leaders tonight was much more interesting than watching Biden/Palin get slow-pitched all evening (yawn).

 

Jack Layton has policies I find compelling (and, tonight, was the only person willing to regularly bring-up issues that are particularly sticky, like our aboriginal prison population), but the man has some serious issues with being a team player. Clearly it was the goal of just about everyone else at the table to smack around Harper and more or less 'play nice' with the rest of the kids, but Layton insisted on levelling arguments against the Liberals too. Moreover, Layton wasn't willing to take any ownership for his in-House voting partnershipswith Harper since the Conservatives won their minority and (sigh) I'm fairly sure he tied with Harper in spewing the most audacious BS in the room.

 

Harper was... well. Harper. Refusing to take any ownership of statements he made in the past regarding program cuts to arts programs based on the content of the art, pretending that *his* environmental policies were 'fair and balanced' (Gee, Stephen, do you mean the original policies, or the ones that the other parties had to fight with you to get implemented). I'm sorry, but no - economic needs and environmental needs cannot be balanced - one must necessarily make sacrifices for the other.

He was also spewing the traditional Christian / Conservative rhetoric about how crime can apparently be decreased by increasing prison sentences. Yup. Because that's definately what science has to say about it...

 

Elizabeth May (whose presence at the debate, despite her party satisfying the criteria to attend the debate, was nearly barred by Jack Layton and Stephen Harper whom threatened a boycott of the event - but then proved to be chicken shits on top of everything else by not manning-up to the words out of their own mouths) was, again, very compelling; but her ideas with regards to foreign policy are head-shakingly lacking. No, Liz: we shouldn't be staying in Afghanistan longer!

The Taliban, like the various guerilla organizations blowing-up Americans in Iraq, cannot somehow be defeated with tanks and army men. They have no permanent bases to destroy, no factories to capture, no vehicles to disable, no supply lines to cut; all they have are teenagers with submachine guns and IEDs. This means that you will always trade your assets at a loss to them, because you're the only side with significant assets to lose. There are ways to defeat a loose and chaotic oganization like the Taliban, but not through use of conventional force.

 

I wish I could vote for Gilles Duceppe, some days. The man is incredibly intelligent (actually, until May and Dion were in the arena, I don't think anyone came at all close to matching Duceppe's raw intelligence and historical knowledge). I am curious as to what the Bloc would really do in power, though: hold a referendum on Quebec's seperation, watch it flop, and then... just run things more or less along similar lines to the liberals?

Odd.

 

Stephane Dion (He and Gilles, just FYI, were the only two candidates who supported allowing Elizabeth a voice in the debate as per the rules - though Gilles was the only one whom said that he would be attending the debate regardless of whether or not anyone else showed-up. Fuck, that guy is the man...) continues to impress with his worldly knowledge and, frankly, scientific insight. This guy knows sociology. No, like, he actually studied and understands the science.

You know what else?

'While growing up, he remembers being taunted for his family's secularism in a society which was then predominantly Catholic .[3]'

That's right, motherfuckers: We've got an atheist in the house. Smiling

What's more? He's a published academic:

'Between 1987 and 1995, Dion published a number of books and articles on political science, public administration and management.[11] A collection of Dion's speeches and writings on Canadian unity was published under the title Straight Talk (Le pari de la franchise) in 1999.[12] Dion was also a guest scholar at the Laboratoire d'économie publique de Paris from 1994 to 1995, a co-editor of the Canadian Journal of Political Science from 1990 to 1993, and a research fellow at the Canadian Centre for Management Development (now part of the Canada School of Public Service) from 1990 to 1991.[10]'

As an added plus, Dion does not (unlike Stevie) believe that climate change is a socialist conspiracy plot and actually attends the summit meetings. He's also asked Stephen Harper to defend his remarks in a televised debate about the Liberal carbon tax plan being 'crazy', and (of course) Harper has cowardly refused to do so at every turn (he attempted to lie about the plan, while demonstrating his apparently abysmal understanding of mathematics, during the debate - and Dion called him on it. I hope most Canadians saw this?)

So, yeah. This one's my pick (I'll be casting my balot tomorrow).

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Kevin R Brown
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Oh, also: Harper gets credit

Oh, also: Harper gets credit for the weirdest argument of the night.

He essentially took a shot at Dion by labelling himself as a bad guy, and then thanking Dion for voting alongside him - thus making Dion a bad guy by proxy.

Yup. Gotta love that Conservative logic.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Thomathy
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Tu quo que, I believe,

Tu quo que, I believe, Kevin.  Frankly, I'm surprised of Steven.

I really don't like Jake Layton.  I'll leave it there.

The rest did not fail to impress.  I've always liked Gilles Duceppe and I too find him intelligent in a way that other leaders have never been, but a Bloc government would be inneffectual in ways we've never seen and I doubt it'd last long.  I'm fond of Dion, but think he's a giant pussy.  A very intelligent, learned pussy (who I'll be helping to put in office on election day).  I always like it when May speaks in public.  She's an excellent orator.  She is intelligent and concise and seems unflappable.  I really want this election to go well for the Greens.  I can't vote green in my riding (no member as per that agreement with the Liberals), but I urge those who can to do it.  May really seems like she'd be an excellent leader, even in opposition and we can stand to increase the number of parties participating nationally in Parliament.

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


Jeffrick
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missed it but

 

       Kevin  were you watching from the "left" side of the TV room?

       Dion keeps refering to Harper and the Conservitives has   "bad" news it was up  to Harper to point out his  two faces  to the voting public.   Dion has been backing the minority government on dozens of votes so long   one has to wonder  why the liberals  have anything bad to say against the government they have  been supporting for 2.5 years.

       Dion is a spineless  wonder about to get his ass kicked up between his ear lobes (no problemo--no spine in between).  Harper will continue has PM----get use to it.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?


Kevin R Brown
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Do you actually have

Do you actually have anything worthwhile and remotely close to intelligent to say here, Jeff? Or are you too busy planning your trip down to SA so you can fool around with your 'good time girls' to make a remark that doesn't amount to, 'Yee-Haw! Aw shure likes me them Conservs-ativitins!'

Quote:
Dion keeps refering to Harper and the Conservitives has   "bad" news it was up  to Harper to point out his  two faces  to the voting public.   Dion has been backing the minority government on dozens of votes so long   one has to wonder  why the liberals  have anything bad to say against the government they have  been supporting for 2.5 years.

We can take a look at this bald assertion, for example, and then ask pertinent questions like, 'How could Stephane Dion been supporting the Conservatives for two and half years when he's only been opposition leader since December '06?', and 'How does blocking the Conservative budget and forcing changes to the Clean Air act constitute support?' and perhaps even 'How can a party pinned-up against the wall while trying to buy time to recoup, therefore not wanting to defeat the present government and have an election called (when Stephen couldn't provoke it, he finally just had to break his own law and call one anyway), act in absolute accord with their own platform?'

 

Thom: I think calling him a pussy is a bit of a stretch. Yeah, he looked really nervous udring the first debate, but he's stood-up for his own writings and opinions in the past and did a fine job of calling Stevie on his bullshit last night. I do agree that he looks a little uncomfortable in situations where he's directly confronted - but he also demonstrates real maturity (I think), and I'm not so sure the typical Trudeau-esque 'comfort under fire' routine is something that's a desirable characteristic.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


Jeffrick
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Oh Canada

 

      The election is now over.  Harper is still Prime Minister with a  healthy Minorty. I wanted a majority but this is Canada, eh?

      Kevin what you wanted I  do not know, and I do believe you do not know either;  now take a midol and chill out.

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?