What do you believe bossman, and is it dangerous, as does it support dangerous irrationalism? Is being a religious moderate, instead of saying no to idol worship, a good stance?

Is it that you wish to go to church for the alleged comfort provided by the belief itself?

Certainly we would read your coherent and logical description concerning why you believe. Please favor us with it. No doubt we could all benefit from a good discussion.

No one wants to take away your right to believe. However, if the belief causes you to do something illegal then all of your other rights are forfeit.

If you read our allegations concerning what is irrational then I'm sure you will see that we typically attack the belief and not the believers unless they attack first.

A favorite saying around here is "Hate the -ism, not the -ist."

While Scientology's belief system itself is rather comical, that is hardly why the organization comes under fire.  I would strongly suggest looking into their practices, www.xenu.net is a wonderful resource for information. 

Imagine if you will, leaving the church you belong to and having everyone within that organization, including family and friends, act as if you no longer exist (I recognize that this does infact happen in every religion).  As if this were not enough, imagine these people avidly pursuing your personal destruction via whatever means they can.  If you dare speak out publicly against them they will go to the extremes of breaking into your home, stealing personal information however necessary, calling your employer and spreading vicous rumors/lies.  This would be just a very minimal explanation of what happens when you leave.  What happens while you are there is much more appalling.  Scientology is in a completely different league than Christianity, as it's pretty safe to define it as being a cult and not a religion.

The more people that know the truth about Scientology the better.  Don't let them, or yourself for that matter, put themselves in the same category as typical religions.  It is quite a different animal.

I'll let others address the rest of your post(s).

You are quite welcome to believe anything that you'd like to get through your life as it's yours to do with as you'd like. Whether you are irrational in general or just irrational regarding theism is another story. Theism is based on no evidence and acceptance of ideas on faith only. You believe in the hope that several thousand year old beliefs from ancients seething in mythological origins has some basis in reality while science shows otherwise. You are of course welcome to do this.

Believe whatever you'd like and it's good that you realize that your beliefs have no reason to become part of the law of the land.

Every person has a right to determine the fate of their own life and that would include euthanasia or suicide.

As to whether there is a heaven, hell, or purgatory no one has presented evidence that such concepts exist nor has anyone ever other than in ancient stories returned from the dead to provide testimony and proof. I agree with you that the Jesus of the Gospels would not support the Paulinity practiced as the lessons he promoted. Jesus was a Jew and Paulinity is a complete departure from the teaching of Jesus. This is not to say I even agree Jesus was a real person, I don't know if he was and the proof is minimal if not completely obscure.

Take your time when communicating. Show us how much you care about your views by putting them into logical structure.

I certainly agree, but not on the same basis. If we break it into 'atheist vs. theist' then can you tell me which side has been the one that has been forcing its belief system upon the other?

You came here to assert your position and we have welcomed your participation.

The 'sides' of this believer vs. nonbeliever debate have been at this discussion for a very long time. 

Compromises have been tried by both sides. For examples, Stephen Gould's NOMA, The catholic churches recognition of Galileo's contributions, and your very own assertion that you were away from church-going for a while.

Unfortunately, each has failed to bring about any measure of tolerance between the two sides. The church invades secular life on a regular basis.

What if I were to tell you that sexuality has been shown to be genetically determined?

There are many many atheists whom share this point of view with you. It seems separate to the issue of belief in god nowadays for most people.

In every instance? What about Terry Schiavo? What about ol' yeller? I'm sure that you can think of some times where ending suffering trumps this assertion.

Sure. Until someone's belief infringes upon the rights of others. Should my tax dollars be used to decorate public structures with idols representing your faith?

Yes. I think that points toward what we say about christianity. One would think that it would be gone from self-mutilation by now. Except for the adherents of the ideology, the premises of christianity are dead because they were false.

Well, that's very nice of you to say.

However, every description of the alleged heaven that has been presented to me has had some major flaw in the logic behind it.

Also, I think you can see that this particular belief of yours might be even more difficult to swallow than the going story of eternal reward.

How would they right the wrong against the person if they were in purgatory separated from the wronged individual?

Well, I'm 50% with you. I don't believe in a hell either.

Look I just don't believe tht suicide is the answer to anything, watch its a wonderful life, that is a film which tells you you are important no matter how small and irrelevant you think you are, suicide is the worst thing you can do because the family blames themselves instead of been able to say goodbye when the persona is alive and coming to terms with their death, I am sorry if I am not the most linear of writers I have mild dyspraxia so it is a little difficult for me. I do agree that sme people have done some horrible things in the name of christ and in the name of the prophet that is not their fault it is the fault of the teachers. If you teach people that their belief is better than all other beliefs then yyou will leave people no other choice than to try and convert their opponents. I don't have anything aginst athiesm as I believe in turning the other cheek and beng meek, if they want to challenge me then fair enough I won't shy away from a challenge but to me, I think that athiesm is a good idea jhjust it annoys me when I called stupid illogical or irrational and you don't even know me, thats what annoys you make a lot of assuptions about people without personally meeting them, you would not do this to race, disability or sexaulilty but you can do it about religion is seems very hypocritical to me as some athiests will not like if I made a blanket statementabout them, I am a human being that by definition makes me irrational and illogical it nothing to do with my religious beliefs or anything else ts just genetics, as I have said athiesm and religion needs to find a common ground otherwise I fear fo the world, you may wwell your the problem to that I would say no your the problem as I know where the problems of the world lie not with religion but with the cliimate and the economy because will iot matter hat religoous belief you have if you are pennyless or on a liferaft

I absolutely agree that life is fantastic and worth looking forward to each and every new day. In the event that you have a fatal illness or injury which will result in your last few weeks or months of life being nothing but extreme pain each person should have the right to choose to end it or not. I support the position each person has the sole right to determine what is best for them without government interference.

Christians have done as you say some of the most horrendous acts in the name of the "Lamb of God". It appears to be a byproduct  of the belief caused by emotionalism and a sense of righteousness based in delusional thought. Exactly where did they get the right to force convert or die or kill dissenters from mainstream if not from the egotistical view that this is what the god wants and it was their duty to enforce the god's will.

I don't have anything against religious believers that keep their beliefs to themselves and out of my life. Unfortunately most Christians seem to think that Jesus gave them a mission in the Gospels right before he transported back to sky daddy to go and preach to all nations. In addition, believers of all types want to enforce their views on others. Consider the taxi drivers in Minneapolis/St. Paul that are mostly Muslim. They refuse to carry passengers that are carrying alcoholic beverages in their taxis from the airport. Consider the meat packers in Colorado and Nebraska where many Muslims work. They want special break times to pray and or eat during Ramadan. Consider Christians that had alcohol banned in the USA during prohibition. Consider Sunday Blue Laws, and quoting God says marriage is only between a man and a woman. Actually the Bible allowed marriage between a man and many women as for example the Patriarchs and Solomon as does Islam. Why care, they aren't trying to marry you. 

Perhaps you don't practice discrimination against atheists but many Christians do. When an atheist tells a Christian he does not believe in God they generally become elitist acting as if they are superior because they are saved et al. The argument goes,  don't you want to be saved or do you want to burn in Hell. They generally become very condescending considering the atheist to be less of a person because we don't believe in what we consider to be myths and fantasy. After this has occured a few dozen times an atheist just might get a bit irritated and strike back calling the religious believer irrational. As you say, you don't know me.

Your fear is justified in that different religions cannot seem to tolerate each other yet alone the lack thereof. Consider the love hate relationship between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland, the Moslem and Christian conflicts which continue today in Africa and the Mid-East. If different religions can't stand each other and find common ground why do you think there is any possibility of such between religion and atheists?

You might want to press enter and separate your ideas every once in awhile.

This thread is too stupid for me to continue with. Toodles.

I don't live in america so I can't comment about the religious right, so i will have to believe the comments made in the link. Moderatism is the way to go for christianity, I dion't believe homosecuality is a sin and believe the earth is 10 billion years old as those undisputed facts, Hitchens and Harris are both mishguided indidviduals who I have spoke out against because Harris misquoted the bible and I think he needs to be shown why he is wrong about doing so, Hitchens is a alcholic who does not understand customs espeecially the jewish ritual of circumsion, its because the foreskin is unclean and cause problems during conception or sex, there are some medical facts that I found that why non-jews get it done as well.

I respect dawkins but I think sometimes he can say stuff and want answer to quickly to questions which require some deep spirtual musings, I just wish he wuld stop with theis miltant athiests rubbish, its not big and its not clever.

Your enemy is my enemy bossman ... me god no likes enemys as is separatism. So I, as buddha jesus, have come to divide as to promote serious debate, of the separatists idol worshipers and the all is one mentality.

WTF isn't god? Science studies god best, and so is the "saving" message of thermodynamics, eternity, matter/anitmatter, as all is one.

Many of us are libertarians holding to the idea that an individual should have the ultimate say over any issue that directly affects their life. It's your life only you can decide its direction and its outcome.

Unlike you I was brought up in a religious environment. I went to religious schools including a graduate degree at a Jesuit University. In the end the knowledge I gained helped me to see the problems with religious belief. Many atheists on this site are former Christians with extensive backgrounds.

I don't see it as going against the hippocratic oath, as it's not "doing harm" to let someone die quickly rather than lingering in pain for months or years.

But why force them to suffer, especially if they have made a personal decision that a painless death is what they really want? Why refuse their genuine wish, if they still hold to it after genuine attempts to persuade them?? Especially if there really is little or no prospect of relief from the pain and/or a cure? Even if there may be a cure 'just around the corner' there are going to be cases where someone has had what they consider a reasonable life, and just wants out?

Why be so cruel? Why could you not consider respecting their decision?

The day your side shuts it's flapping gums is the day I'll step down from returning the favour. You people all expect to be treated with honey, while carrying a molotov behind your back. It disgusts me.

Actually we do have that right. It's called the 1st ammendment.

Assume for sake of argument medical science sees no possible cure for the fatal illness you have. It's painful and you live on heavy does of morphine. Every minute of your remaining life is pain beyond your imagination. You would have this person live in torture. How wrong and cruel. 1960s movie, "They Shoot Horses Don't They?"

Well here is a compromise I though of if it is a descision made by a panel of the family, the doctor and individual then euthansia would be ok, if they have exhausted eevery available option then I could be ok if somebody wanted closure.

I am god as you is not debatable ... but the details are , and so we have science.

  Hello Will.   Hadn't seen you post in a while. 

I defy all dictionary's  ....

HA!

I got you too!

Damn, this atheist challenge is starting to get on my nerves.

Hey Prozac. I love the McCain licking himself avatar. So creepy.

Atheism is not an ideology or a religion, it has no dogma or grand theory, merely lack pf belief in God(s).

Some people inclined to be very dogmatic about their world-view may also not believe in God, which means they are also Atheists, but that does not make their dogmas part of 'atheism'. It is dogmatic belief which is the problem, whether Christian Theology, Marxism/Communism, Free Market Fundamentalism, etc that is the problem.

People in free countries have every right to make provisional assumptions about other people based on their words, in fact it is impossible to not do this. It is only if people refuse to adjust those initial assumptions when they do meet the person, or treat those assumptions as more than just tentative ideas which may well be incorrect in some way.

To be honest, this is a slightly tipped forum as its hardly 50/50 it is a mainly athiest forum,. I am sure that that there are thiests on here who are not afraid of speaking their minds like I am, I not afrad to say I believe in Jeusus christ, sorry its tough if you like it. Thtas all the arguement yopu will ever get out of thiests on a foru,m such as this as they feel as if they are not been allowed to make a point without a thousand and one points been made against them, which if anybody did that it would them look dumb.

A lack of believe can still be dogmatic in the way is spoken by the individual you just look on you tube and look at immendham and amazing athiest, to know what I am talking about they are as dogmatic as the venomfangxs of this world.

Intellectual reason would tell you that you should never judge something or someone before you meet them, I wil be going to see religious which I said wil not be funny before I saw it, I haven't seen it yet, so I can't comment on it.

I thought you just believed in a hands off ultimate Creator. How does Jesus get into the picture? That doesn't sound very "hands-off."

Good point. Amazing Atheist is a douchebag.

Well, you just did comment on it. What you mean is that your comment is probably not accurate? I think a Muslim will laugh at every part except parts criticizing Islam. A Scientologist will laugh except during the part mocking Scientology. I thought the whole thing was funny because I don't follow any set of religious beliefs.