Debating/Discussing Anglo-Saxton Heathanism
Posted on: December 9, 2008 - 5:00pm
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Debating/Discussing Anglo-Saxton Heathanism
Ciarin, we can continue our discourse here.
Now then:
You've explained that you believe that your deities (I'll be referring to them by their original Norse titles - I'm aware you disagree, but frankly, I don't really care) control natural phenomena, and are literally existent entities. Thor, for example, commands thunder and lightning.
What evidence do you have to substantiate this claim?
Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
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LOL @ cialis
It's ok to refer to them by their norse names, they're more commonly known.
I have no evidence for you.
ciarin.com
I'm going to exercise my powers of precognition: This conversation is not going to get off the ground.
Don't get me wrong. It's just that you admit you have no evidence. That's kind of the start and end of this conversation. Anything more would be pointless.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Yes I understood that from your earlier post. I'm referring to which words you would like defined coherently.
Yep. If your only goal is to disprove any evidence I might present through logic and reasoning then I guess you'll be disappointed. If, on the other hand, you wish to discuss things about my religion that you're actually curious about, we might have more to talk about. It makes no difference to me, I'm just a theist on a atheist website.
ciarin.com
...I don't know why I typed 'Cialis'. Now that is a Freudian slip.
Okay; that's fine. Recognition that you hold beliefs on the merit of emotional attachment alone is a rather good start.
Now, on the other hand:
The two most popular, well-researched theories on lightning formation are of a polarization mechanism or a electrostatic induction mechanism. Both are modelled using known phenomena (in this case, static electricity) and both are entirely explorable and falsifiable. The data is not completely conclusive, but we know beyond any reasonable doubt that no deity or magic need be involved; lightning has all of the characteristics of very powerful static electricity discharges - it's just a matter of more finely examing what, exactly, the cloud particles in a thunderhead (or any other large & viscous cloud, like the ash cloud from a volcano) do in order to create the charge necessary to generate lightning strikes.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
If you ever go to Boston you can see a lightning show in the Museum of Science. They have Tesla coils and it's so cool.
ciarin.com
I have to ask. Is there a miniature Thor inside a Tesla coil making lightning happen?
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Hehe, I don't know. Maybe it's a miniature Hephaestus.
ciarin.com
Wouldn't he be in a volcano? Hephaestus wasn't involved in lightning/electricity (the ancient Greeks didn't get the connection. )
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
I once knew someone who believed in Greek gods. If Greek gods and Norse gods got in a fight who would win?
Norse of course.
btw, there's comic that had a storyline where the olympics were held between the pantheons of the world. Greek and Norse tied for first, so Zeus and Odin had to go one on one in order to break the tie. If you want to check it out: Brat-Halla.
ciarin.com
Well he forged the lightning bolts that Zeus hurled a people.
ciarin.com
A Norse is a Norse
of course of course
That is, of course,
unless the Norse
is the famous Thunder God!
Eh. Needs work.
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
Norse. No question about it. Thor + Mjolnir = win. Even the Migard serpent couldn't handle that. I'll give the Norse one thing, they made a badass religion. I highly recommend that everyone here see Wagner's Ring Cycle, or perhaps read the dialog from the plays. It is the better version of Lord of the Rings in my opinion. Not to mention Norse paganism in certain metal bands. Some of the best metal is Norse pagan metal. Black metal and Wagner; what more could you ask for?
If I ever had to be a theist, I would be an Asatru Pagan. I could give my family a Christmas to remember.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
Try this on for size:
A Norse is a Norse
of course of course
That is, of course,
unless the Norse is Loki of course,
You see he became a horse,
a mare of course,
Loki thought he could disctract the jotun's horse,
but it came at him with great force,
and mounted him of course,
so Loki birthed Sleipnir,
a most unusual horse,
and that is the All Father's horse of course,
the All Father's mount for Ragnarok,
When the gods will end their natural course.
Meh, my version needs work to. And I feel like a geek for writing that. And I know I messed up the number of syllables per line. But man do I feel like a geek for writing that. Also their really is a Norse tale in which the gender bending Loki becomes a mare and is impregnated by a jotun's horse and later births Sleipnir. Weird stuff.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
oh man that needs work. You are certainly no Egil Skallagrimson.
I'll whole-heartedly second that. But if you really want to get to know Thor, you gotta read Marvel comics. It's the only true path to enlightenment.
You hear about the new Thor Movie coming out? Who do you think will play Thor? I heard they tried to get Brad Pitt.
ciarin.com
Anyone ever see that "Hulk meets Thor" movie from the 1980s?
LOL, no I hadn't seen that. Who was in it?
It was Lou Ferrigno and Bill Bixby from the 1970's Hulk tv show. That's all I remember. I have it on DVD somewhere.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Thor movie is coming ? That's totally cool. Isn't a new X-men movie coming out soon ? Something like "X-men Origins" ?
The last X-Men movie sucked the cum out of a dead man's dick.
It really did.
I didn't watch, cause I heard it sucked.
Yes. I think there was a "Hulk meets Daredevil" one too. Poor Bill Bixby.
Yeah, I have that one too - the 2 dvds came together.
It's the Greek gods by a mile. No question. Greek gods are immortals, Norse gods can be killed by physical violence. I'm guessing Zeus and Apollo alone could slaughter the entirety of the male part of the pantheon and then have sex with everybody left over. Including any of the prettier teenage boys that hid in clay jars during the fighting.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
lol cause greeks are so gay.
ciarin.com
I'm not sure if, in context, you could call the ancient Greeks "gay", considering they didn't differentiate very strongly between affection for your own sex and affection for the opposite sex. "Gay" would be a solid decision in one direction.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Don't you want to know if your beliefs are true? Aren't you even a little curious?
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Thor and Odin are too awesome for truth.
Well, considering I'm already of the opinion that my beliefs are true, I'm not sure if I understand your question. Are you asking me if I want evidence for my beliefs so that I can show others that they are true?
ciarin.com
I' m an atheist.
Ciarin could you clarify exactly what kind of theist you are?
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
Polytheist and Panentheist.
ciarin.com
Thor killed (or will kill, depending how you look at the mythology) Jormungandr. F*ing Jormungandr. If he can handle that impossible feat of ass-kicking, then he can beat some Greek gods. There is no question that the Norse would win.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
Zeus killed Typhon, a snake monster which likely derives from the same Indo European source as the old Midgard Serpent--hell, they're both thunder gods, fer chrissakes, it's probably the same story. Except Thor died after taking a few steps, Kill Bill style and Zeus went on to father Apollo, who also killed a giant evil snake monster. And later to father Heracles, who also killed a giant evil snake monster. See a pattern? The Greeks have the evil snake monster thing covered. Even if your boy got some Greek gods, he'd still have the heavy hitters to handle, and beyond Thor, you've got who left, Odin and Tyr? I'm just not convinced.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
Almost all the Norse gods are destined to die eventually. Not so the Greeks. And Ares the war god is pretty tough too, not having been mentioned. And Hephaestus can make some pretty awesome weapons for them. And Aphrodite could likely convince a few of the Norse ones to switch sides by fucking the shit out of them. From the descriptions getting fucked by Aphrodite would make the best sex any man ever had look like a bad session of masturbation while wearing a thick condom and heavy glove by comparison.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Then why is it when I play Age of Mythology my norse guys always kickass against the greeks?
Norse PWN your FACE.
ciarin.com
Because roleplaying games can't handle unrealistic abilities: Obviously by the way the followers describe the Christian God would defeat both the entire Greek and Norse Panthon instantly.
And anyway, the gods of the Cthulu mythos would rip all of the Greek, Norse or whatever gods millions of new assholes in a fraction of a second. Cthulu and Yog-Soggoth are way more powerful than any of those puny gods.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Cthulu sucks balls.
ciarin.com
Remember that as he eats your sanity. The Norse Gods' worst nightmare is a pussy compared to Cthulu.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
I 'c' your photoshop and raise you Franzetta:
See, the thing is, mortal or immortal, Cthulhu would kick all their asses. Even death doesn't stop the Great Old One. He would simply drive them to mania with His dread presence, then consume them, letting them suffer a hellish eternity dissolving in His acid filled stomachs.
Ph'nglui mglw'naft Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
Berserkers are already insane!
Yeah, but they are insane in a good way. With Cthulhu you get the writing strange glyphs and equations on the wall with your own feces while gibbering about the incomprehensable shapless masses pouring forth from right angles insane.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
I kid you not, this used to be my desktop background. Though in Lovecraft's writings I don't think Cthulu is all that special. I consider him to be one of the tamer Lovecraftian entities. Azathoth and Yog Sothoth are the heavy hitters for Lovecraft. Though they are powerful in an inconceivable and alien way. At least with mythological gods we can speculate about how much ass they could kick, but when it comes to eldrich horrors we shouldn't be able to even understand how malign or powerful they are. Now that I think about it, I should get back into reading Lovecraft.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
Yes I'm sure we all agree that the insanity that causes Berserkers to kill, maim, pillage, rape(all while wearing no armour and slicing themselves beforehand) is being insane "in a good way".
Also, Odin and Freya have an army of slain warriors(Einherjar) who spend the afterlife fighting, drinking, and preparing for Ragnorak.
Pwnt.
ciarin.com
y'know what the scariest part is? When the monotheists go on about the infinitudes of their deity... I keep thinking 'uhm... that's Azathoth... that's NOT A GOOD THING...'
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid
Oh, come on! You mean to tell me that most of the people I go to concerts with are insane in a bad way? I mean, sure, they torched Dallas that one time, but it was all in good fun. And don't tell me that the longship on Lake Worth wasn't an entertaining spectacle until it reached shore! Metalheads will be metalheads, ya know.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
ahem, nyarlathotep, nyarlathotep. i think he's second to azathoth. he's like his messenger or something, since azathoth, from what i could always tell, is more or less immobile at the center of the universe, like dante's satan except inifinitely cooler, gibbering and insane and dancing to two flute-playing entities. lovecraft, however, was hardly consistent in his mythology and azathoth was never really elaborated upon. on the whole, lovecraft is great if you like complex fantasy universes, like tolkien's, but as a writer lovecraft was pretentious, repetitive, and an utter failure at character development, also like tolkien (though stylistically tolkien was definitely the better of the two).
cthulhu has the honor of being perhaps the most detailed of lovecraft's characters, but he was hardly the biggest baddie. as far as i can remember, yog-sothoth, cthulhu, and nyarlathotep were the only old ones that made personal appearances in lovecraft's stories. oh, and also the abbot of the monastery in leng made an appearance in "the dreamquest of unknown kadath." i think shub-niggurath appeared as well, but shub-niggurath was originally robert bloch's creation.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson