Sex and Advertising... The Sequel

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Sex and Advertising... The Sequel

 I've been reminded again recently that sexual advertising offends a lot of people.  To be honest, I've always been a little bit puzzled by this.  I'm still working on a genuine book chapter dealing with Evolutionary Psychology's possible explanations for this, but for the moment, I'm just going to bounce a few thoughts off of the blogosphere.
I hear two objections more than any other:

 

1) Sexual advertising objectifies people (especially women) and "dehumanizes" them. 2) Sexual advertising imposes a false sense of beauty on us, and pressures less than perfect women (and men!) to obsess too much about their looks.

 

First, what does it mean to "objectify" somebody?  Webster says it means either "to treat as an object" or "cause to have objective reality."  Alternatively, it can mean "to give expression to (as an abstract notion, feeling, or ideal) in a form that can be experienced by others < it is the essence of the fairy tale to objectify differing facets of the child's emotional experience -- John Updike>"  Clearly, we must be talking about the first definition, so let's work with that.  What does it mean to treat someone as an object?

 

What is an object?  Webster has a lot to say about that question.  It can be something material, perceivable by the senses.  Clearly, all people are objects in this sense, so that's probably not what we're talking about.  It can be something mental or physical toward which thought, feeling, or action is directed, as in "the object of my affection."  At first glance, maybe this isn't what people are objecting to, either.  Most people like being the object of affection and admiration.
 

 

Even so, are the models on billboards objects in this sense?  I think they certainly are.  When I see a male underwear model with six-pack abs, I sometimes think to myself that I am far short of that goal.  Sometimes it causes me a sense of envy.  Gosh, I think.  If I had abs like that, women would line up to have sex with me.  In reality, it's not clear whether my sex life would be more fulfilling if I had six-pack abs, but I certainly do entertain the thought from time to time.  So in a sense, I'm making that person's body the object of my envy.
 

 

Is that bad?  Is that what women are objecting to?  Perhaps it is, in the sense of the second complaint I listed.  I'll return to this idea later.  In the meantime, we need to hash out what it means to objectify someone in a bad way.  In browsing through several dictionary sites on the web, I've had a hard time finding a definition that fits this use, so let's just play around with making our own.  The sense I get when someone says an ad objectifies women (or men, or whatever group is being portrayed) is that some generalization or stereotype is being emphasized to the exclusion of other traits.  That is, a Victoria's Secret model is nothing more than sexuality.  In the pages of the catalog, there are no minds.  There is no camaraderie.  There is no love, no self-respect, and there certainly aren't any shared goals in the context of a loving monogamous marriage.
 

 

I think this gets closer to the meaning of "objectification" in advertising.  For the time being, it's what I'm going to use.  Now, let's ask the obvious question.  Is this kind of objectification bad?
 

 

If you've lived in the real world at all, you've probably known a man who objectified women.  That is, he treated them as nothing more than sex toys, and didn't invest any kind of energy into forming deep emotional bonds.  (In fairness, we've probably all known women like that, too, but we'll go with men for the time being.)  These kind of men don't often make good husbands, so we can say that if all men treated women that way, it would be very bad for monogamous marriage.

 

 

The thing is, all men don't treat women that way.  Most men are looking for a monogamous lover who also happens to be a great friend.  Sure, they'll take casual sex along the way while they're searching, but the ultimate goal of most men is long term meaningful relationships.  Considering the huge number of sexual ads, it's safe to say ads don't turn all men into objectifiers.  But do they turn some men?  Perhaps, but even if they do, we have to ask the question, do these men objectify because the ads are bad, or do they objectify because they were socialized poorly and don't have healthy views of women?  It's a chicken and egg problem that probably doesn't have a clear cut answer.

 

 

Instead of trying to find a clear answer, let's approach it from the other angle.  Do most men look at sexual advertising and still manage to have healthy relationships?  Yes.  They do.  Perhaps we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater by blaming the existence of sexually selfish men on billboard ads.  In fact, psychologists have made a very compelling argument that images are not the main cause of emotional dysfunction in men or women.  One of the best indicators of relationship health in any person is the relationship health of their parents (or whoever raised them).  Religion also plays a much larger role in shaping sexual identity.  In America, people who think sex before marriage is inherently harmful are almost all religious, and those who aren't have almost all come from religious backgrounds and given up the organization.

 

 

In fact, there's a lot of new and compelling evidence that sexually vivid advertising, erotica, and even downright smutty porn are a significant part of a lot of healthy relationships.  It appears that emotionally healthy people are not only not "dehumanized" by sexual advertising, they incorporate it into their own healthy lives!

 

 

Since I just used the word, "dehumanized," let's define it.  Webster says "to deprive of human qualities, personality, or spirit."

 

 

Hmmmm.... did you notice something there?  That's what most people mean by "objectify."  Ok, I admit I kind of snookered the reader a little bit here.  "Objectification" is not really the right word for protesting sexual advertising.  The real argument is that it deprives people of human qualities or personality -- that it reduces them in some way.  (I'm leaving out the spirit part because spirits don't exist.  Sue me.)

  So, let's ask another pointed question.  Is depriving people of human qualities or personality always a bad thing?  Ask yourself that question next time you get annoyed with a waiter for getting too much into your business during lunch.  When you're asking yourself why he won't just refill your tea without talking, remember to consider whether we ought to treat every human as equally "human."

 

The fact is, we dehumanize people everyday.  It's part of the lexicon of modern psychology.  Servers, taxi drivers, gas station attendants, people standing next to us on the train, and any number of other people are less than "whole people" to us.  Road rage is another great example.  We simply don't think of other people as entirely human when we're insulated by our automobiles.

 

 

If we're honest, we have to admit that humans absolutely do dehumanize other people.  In fact, it's necessary.  If we had to take the time to develop deep relationships with everyone we encountered in our lives, we'd never get anything else done.  Relationships take a long time.

 

 

So, we've taken a long route to get here, but we have to admit that dehumanizing in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing.  We can't say sexual advertising is bad because it dehumanizes the models.  Just to hammer the point home, realize that if you passed a supermodel on the street, you wouldn't think of her as any more human than if she was on a billboard.  She's just another face in the crowd, just like 99% of the people you'll ever meet.

 

 

I'll be mercifully brief on the second objection.  Does sexual advertising impose a false sense of beauty on us?  In a word, yes and no.  Mostly no.

 

 

Scientists have known for quite a while that humans' perception of beauty is not arbitrary.  That is, we don't just like what society tells us to like.  Across all cultures, scientists can pick out the people that will be judged most attractive by a random sampling of judges.  They can do it by measuring symmetry and comparing facial features to a "cultural average."  People whose noses are average sized and very symmetrical will be judged as more attractive than people whose noses are very small or very large, but very symmetrical.

 

 

Culture certainly does shape our perceptions of beauty, but only within the bounds that already exist.  To put it bluntly, there has never been a time when grossly obese people with large warts on their noses have been considered highly attractive.  Yes, Titian painted "healthy" women by today's standards -- and that's about where the outer boundary lies.  With the very occasional exception, virtually every society values physically fit bodies and symmetrical features, though they have quite a bit of leeway.  In America, we've gone from Twiggy to Marilyn Monroe to Kate Moss to Britney Spears in just a few decades.

 

 

Does sexual advertising cause people to obsess about their looks?  Sure, some people.  Again, though, we have to ask a pointed question.  Do the people who obsess about their looks do so because of advertising or does the advertising bring out an existing insecurity?  In the same way that males become sexual "users" because of their family and peers, females become obsessively looks conscious because of their family and peers.  To hammer this point home, we should realize that we have female jewelry going back to the beginnings of human tool use.  Before TV, there were looks-obsessed women and women who just went with the flow.

 

 

Is it possible that the information age has exacerbated the situation for certain women?  Sure.  Does that mean the advertising is bad, or does it mean that some women have been raised with an overly looks-conscious mental outlook?  I can't answer this definitively, but a quick scan through history tells me that men have always gone after the prettiest women, and women have always wanted to be the prettiest.  

 

 

Finally, I'd like to return to the spirit of the original question.  Is sexual advertising in and of itself a bad thing?  I think no.  Humans are products of natural selection, which is inevitably going to produce lots of 5s, a couple of 10s, and a couple of 1s.  Almost everybody is average looking.  Just as in any other species, the standouts are going to... well... stand out.  We can't blame them for being better looking than us.  It's genetics.  Nothing else.  If we're honest, we have to admit that they're more sexually attractive to more people than we are, but does that mean we're dehumanized?  No.  It means we're realistic.

 

 

Humans are walking sexual advertisements.  If you're in a relationship, the odds are really, really high that you are (or at least were) attracted to your mate sexually.  If you hadn't been, you wouldn't be in a relationship.  You'd be friends and nothing more.  We dress up so that we're sexually appealing.  It's just what it is.

 

 

This brings me to my last (and hopefully most convincing) point.  As you've hopefully read and understood in my articles on human sexuality (links to follow) it is patently wrong to say that human nature is above sexuality.  Sexuality is literally what makes us who we are.  Were it not for sex, we wouldn't make art and music and poetry.  Sexuality isn't the basest part of our nature.  It is intrinsic to everything we are.

 

 

Freud was right even though he was horribly wrong.  Everything really does come back to sex, but he just had no idea how or why.  (If you're reading this and thinking, "No, it isnt!" I'll ask you to please read my other articles thoroughly and come back to this one.)   In other words, we are all walking sexual advertisements.  Even when we don't try to be sexual, people look at us sexually.  We're human.  That's what humans do.

 

 

So next time you look at a billboard with a scantily clad woman selling something that seems completely unrelated to sex, remember... sex is what makes the world go round, and we're all sexual advertisements.  The one on the billboard just got paid for it.  No biggie.  Really.

What Science Says About Human Sexuality
What's So Great About Sex?
On Myth, Sexuality, and Culture
Female Sexuality and Origins



 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit
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 Right... so I just thought

 Right... so I just thought of the first likely objection and figured I'd answer it before it gets made:

Interlocutor:  It's fine that humans are sexual creatures and yes, we do naturally look at each other as sex objects, but what goes on in the media today is too much.  It's unhealthy and over the top.  There's natural, and then there's way off the charts, and we're way off the charts.

Me: Look, this little diatribe wasn't meant to say that every single sexual advertisement is in good taste.  I agree that there are some places where the sexual advertisement is just ridiculous in either volume or intensity.  I, for one, could do with a few less "Girls Gone Wild In Some Tropical Paradise or Another" ads while I'm trying to watch some quality late night TV.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's nothing inherently wrong with sexual advertising, not that sexual advertising left unregulated couldn't take over otherwise wholesome prime time television.  Is some advertising over the top?  By my tastes, yes.  However, they wouldn't be out there if somebody didn't like them.  Advertisers don't just throw their money away.  If taste is all it comes down to, I don't think I have the right to say someone can't advertise.  As humans have proven over and over, if there's enough demand for a product, someone will make it.  This includes sex-less advertising and Family Television Networks and Smut Free bookstores.

You've got to separate your own taste from "inherently bad."  Humans are very good at getting caught up in the notion that they have the best taste of anyone and that their taste somehow correlates to objectivity, and it just isn't so.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Quote:The fact is, we

Quote:
The fact is, we dehumanize people everyday.  It's part of the lexicon of modern psychology.  Servers, taxi drivers, gas station attendants, people standing next to us on the train, and any number of other people are less than "whole people" to us.  Road rage is another great example.  We simply don't think of other people as entirely human when we're insulated by our automobiles.
 

If we're honest, we have to admit that humans absolutely do dehumanize other people.  In fact, it's necessary.  If we had to take the time to develop deep relationships with everyone we encountered in our lives, we'd never get anything else done.  Relationships take a long time.
 

 

So, we've taken a long route to get here, but we have to admit that dehumanizing in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing.  We can't say sexual advertising is bad because it dehumanizes the models.  Just to hammer the point home, realize that if you passed a supermodel on the street, you wouldn't think of her as any more human than if she was on a billboard.  She's just another face in the crowd, just like 99% of the people you'll ever meet.

Three things:

  - You appear to be making an appeal to tradition/human nature here. Because we so many people dehumanize people every day, and because it's been done for so long, it's okay.

 - None of the notes you made where the reader would expect to see positive traits of dehumanization actually include positive traits. Road Rage isn't something I consider positive, anyway, nor is treating a waiter/waitress like dirt or giving yourself priority before other bystanders. Of course, I'm hardly innocent of these things myself and am not a proponent of humanism, but it seems a tad weak to argue in favor of dehumanization being okay with the examples you provided.

 - There's a fallacy of equivocation. Treating people humanely is not the same thing as developing a personal relationship with everyone you meet.

 

Aside from that, I agree with your sentiment. Moreover, even if one could argue about the 'dangers' or negative impacts of sexual advertising, I would counter that any such dangers are pale, miserable and whimpersome when compared to the harm that censorship and imposed morality does.

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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 Quote:  - You appear to

 

Quote:
  - You appear to be making an appeal to tradition/human nature here. Because we so many people dehumanize people every day, and because it's been done for so long, it's okay.

No.  The argument is more like this:

Definition:

Dehumanize - to treat someone as less than a peer or equal by ignoring parts of their "humanity."

As a normal part of human interaction, we must necessarily treat some people as "more human" than others.   This is well known in psychology.  The doorguy at the hotel, the passengers on the bus, etc -- these are what psychologists call "non-people."  It's not that we think they have negative value, but rather that we simply don't consciously deal with their value beyond what they represent to us in a societal concept.  Sure, most people recognize that a waiter is a human with feelings, and a girlfriend, and whatnot.  It's just that they are playing a role in society that doesn't involve any of that, and so we don't deal with them on that level.

This is not a matter of "should" or "ought."  It's an intrinsic and necessary part of being human.  You have to get past the idea that "dehumanize" is a bad word.  It's not.

Quote:
 - None of the notes you made where the reader would expect to see positive traits of dehumanization actually include positive traits. Road Rage isn't something I consider positive, anyway, nor is treating a waiter/waitress like dirt or giving yourself priority before other bystanders. Of course, I'm hardly innocent of these things myself and am not a proponent of humanism, but it seems a tad weak to argue in favor of dehumanization being okay with the examples you provided.

Someone's reading their own bias into the text.  I didn't say treating a waiter like dirt was an example of dehumanizing.  I said not wanting the waiter to talk unnecessarily was an example of dehumanizing.  The waiter is playing a role, and that role (in many restaurants) does not involve making friends.  It involves making the dining experience as good as possible for the customer while being as invisible as possible.

Treating a waiter like dirt isn't dehumanizing them, even though we use that word a lot.  It's being rude.  There's a subtle difference.  You can dehumanize someone while being completely polite, as a matter of fact.  The cashier in the store, for instance.  When they ask you how you're doing as you're digging for your wallet, you usually answer with a polite but perfunctory, "Fine, thanks."   Usually, you don't look up from what you're doing, but continue looking for your loose change or credit card.  When you leave, you might say thanks, or you might not, but in any case, you're not saying any of it to try to make friends.  You're just being polite.  Odds are, ten minutes after you leave, you couldn't answer even simple questions about what the cashier looked like or said, or any of the subtle clues you would notice in a person you were having a more "human" conversation with.

The point is, "dehumanization" isn't a good word because it's very human to treat humans differently depending on their roles.

Quote:
 - There's a fallacy of equivocation. Treating people humanely is not the same thing as developing a personal relationship with everyone you meet.

And you, my friend, are the one making the equivocation.  Do you see the bias?  With the exception of road rage, nothing I talked about in this article necessarily involves "inhumane" treatment of other humans.  (Even road rage is usually just about rudeness.)  You just projected bad treatment because it's what you wanted to read into it.  Read the article again and try to forget your bias.

Quote:
Aside from that, I agree with your sentiment. Moreover, even if one could argue about the 'dangers' or negative impacts of sexual advertising, I would counter that any such dangers are pale, miserable and whimpersome when compared to the harm that censorship and imposed morality does.

Thanks.  I think if you take a step back and re-read the piece, you'll see that you've fallen prey to the very same misconceptions I was trying to illuminate.  I'm going to get some distance and re-read it to see if I've inadvertantly made something sound negative when I didn't want to.

 

 

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I did not read into that

I did not read into that piece with a strong bias. Honest.

Quote:
Dehumanize - to treat someone as less than a peer or equal by ignoring parts of their "humanity."

This may be the problem; what do you mean by 'ignoring parts of their humanity'? To me, that largely means not assigning them value in the (limited) social contract you establish with them while doing business (that is to say, feeling you can treat them however you want without 'real' consequences, or otherwise failing to take into account that your interaction here will have consequences for the other person).

EDIT: 'Humanity' is really what needs to be defined here. When you refer to someone's humanity, what do you mean?

Quote:
And you, my friend, are the one making the equivocation.  Do you see the bias?  With the exception of road rage, nothing I talked about in this article necessarily involves "inhumane" treatment of other humans.  (Even road rage is usually just about rudeness.)  You just projected bad treatment because it's what you wanted to read into it.  Read the article again and try to forget your bias.

The fallacy I was referring to is right here:

Quote:
If we're honest, we have to admit that humans absolutely do dehumanize other people.  In fact, it's necessary.  If we had to take the time to develop deep relationships with everyone we encountered in our lives, we'd never get anything else done.  Relationships take a long time.

You're equivocating developing deep relationships with people as the same thing as treating them as humans.

That's fallacious.

 

Or perhaps there's a communication error based on (presently) differing ideas on what we say when we refer to a person's 'humanity'. Sticking out tongue

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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 Like I said, I don't like

 Like I said, I don't like the word "dehumanize."  Everything humans do to other humans is part of the spectrum of human interaction.  It's sort of like "unnatural."  Everything's natural dude!  Still, I think dehumanize has its uses, which I will get to in a minute.

Let me see if I can clarify a little more:

* Humans interact with other humans on several levels.  The least "involved" of these levels is a non-person, where they are simply a function, not a person with whom we interact.  Then we have various levels of social interactions, then various levels of personal interaction.  At each level, we "recognize" more and more social and personal qualities.  In reality, most people realize intellectually that everybody is a human.  Still, they interact on appropriate levels.

The idea of taking away "humanity" is often equivocated in the public mind.  I wish there was a common colloquial way of saying "interacting with someone on a distant social level" that didn't involve their humanity.  IMHO, talk of taking away humanity ought to be reserved for drastic, intentionally harmful actions designed specifically to psychologically or physically damage someone.  Putting a human in isolation for a year is dehumanizing because social interaction is intrinsic to humanity -- at ALL levels.   Recognizing someone's value as a friend is not intrinsic to all levels of humanity.  It's reserved for people that have made it to a rather high level of interaction.  Do you see the difference?

Ok, bact to advertising:

When someone puts their photo on an ad, they are performing a distant social function.  They are trying to help someone sell a good or service to someone else.  Selling and buying are distant social functions.  We need only the most basic of human interaction to accomplish the act.  This is why we don't bother to even learn the names of most people from whom we buy things.  (You can also see how a higher social level of interaction can develop if we repeatedly buy something from the same person -- a bartender, for instance.)

So, the broad point is that not only is it not wrong for us to see models as objects, it's part of how the whole thing works.  We don't want to know about Giselle Bunchen's collection of exotic skin cremes.  We want to see how that teddy looks on a hot body.  The function of selling is to get people stoked about a product... not the model.

Here's a paraphrase of something I tell my servers all the time:  "Listen, the service industry is about service.  You are here to make someone else as happy as possible.  Your own feelings about that person are irrelevant because they're not here for your benefit.  They're here for a great dinner.  If you have personal problems with serving other people no matter how you're feeling at the time, the service industry is not for you."

If you've never worked in the service industry, you have no idea how true that is.  People who don't understand that simple truth always wash out.  You have to be comfortable enough in your own skin to realize that the world won't collapse if someone else doesn't pay any attention to you and isn't interested in you as a human being.  You're performing a distant social service for them, and they are under no social obligation to do anything other than be polite and fulfil their social obligation by leaving a tip.

Ads are distant social services, too.  We are under no obligation to look at models as anything other than objects.  This doesn't mean we objectify all women.  It means we are looking at this particular woman within the social framework she occupies.

As a final example, I've known lots of girls who were or are strippers.  I go to strip clubs occasionally, and when you're there, you're not there to get a girlfriend.  You're there to see nameless tits.  You just want to get your jollies by looking at women, and the women don't want to get to know you either.  They just want you to pay them for the service they're rendering.  Is it dehumanizing?  No.  Is it putting women out there in a very distant social setting that crosses boundaries with a very close personal setting?  Yes.  Can this cause problems?  Yes.  Here's the most important part... if you see a stripper outside of the strip club and talk to her, does she suddenly become more of a person?  Yes, she does.  

Is some of this making sense?

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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 KB, check out this thread,

 KB, check out this thread, and look at my second comment.  I've hashed out some more of this in what I think is a clearer way.

(By the way, the reason I put this as a forum post and not an author page is that I knew I needed to work on it, so don't think I'm busting your balls.  I'm trying to figure out the best way to say what I mean.)

Starting a conversation about porn

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Quote:The idea of taking

Quote:
The idea of taking away "humanity" is often equivocated in the public mind.  I wish there was a common colloquial way of saying "interacting with someone on a distant social level" that didn't involve their humanity.  IMHO, talk of taking away humanity ought to be reserved for drastic, intentionally harmful actions designed specifically to psychologically or physically damage someone.  Putting a human in isolation for a year is dehumanizing because social interaction is intrinsic to humanity -- at ALL levels.   Recognizing someone's value as a friend is not intrinsic to all levels of humanity.  It's reserved for people that have made it to a rather high level of interaction.  Do you see the difference?

Okay, yes; I see precisely where you're drawing the line now.

Thank-you for the clarification.

Quote:
Here's a paraphrase of something I tell my servers all the time:  "Listen, the service industry is about service.  You are here to make someone else as happy as possible.  Your own feelings about that person are irrelevant because they're not here for your benefit.  They're here for a great dinner.  If you have personal problems with serving other people no matter how you're feeling at the time, the service industry is not for you."

Well, speaking strictly from personal experience, I've worked in retail (and, of course, am a retail shopper) and have found that:

A) I've had better sales volume building relationships with customers rather than keeping them at a distance; handing them my cellphone number, getting to know them at a deeper-than-superficial level, etc. Of course, yes, these aren't what I would call 'real' friendships, but certainly I've usually felt I was dealing with John, Mary, Kathleen, etc, rather than just a face.

B) I only go shopping/eating anymore (when I have the luxury of choice) places where I've gotten to know, on some level, the people that are serving me. I consider it assurance that I'll get decent service (and if not, I can feel more comfortable broaching the subject without risk of confrontation). I don't buy the contemporary Wal-Mart servicing philosophy, if you will (yes, Wal-Mart is obviously successful; however, the way current Wal-Mart stores are run is not the way Sam Walton originally built his business. Well, according to his book, anyway).

I realize that projecting my own experience onto the subject matter is unhelpful in creating a realistic model for what people will do - I'm just explaining where I'm coming from. And, of course, I can hardly argue that I treat *everybody* like they're more than a face; I've just found it more fulfilling, personally, from a variety of standpoints in the situations where I've treated them as a bit more than that.

Quote:
As a final example, I've known lots of girls who were or are strippers.  I go to strip clubs occasionally, and when you're there, you're not there to get a girlfriend.  You're there to see nameless tits.  You just want to get your jollies by looking at women, and the women don't want to get to know you either.  They just want you to pay them for the service they're rendering.  Is it dehumanizing?  No.  Is it putting women out there in a very distant social setting that crosses boundaries with a very close personal setting?  Yes.  Can this cause problems?  Yes.  Here's the most important part... if you see a stripper outside of the strip club and talk to her, does she suddenly become more of a person?  Yes, she does. 

...This is why I (personally, again) don't like going to strip-clubs. I don't find it enjoyable because, generally, I don't feel like I gain anything from it; whenever I go out for the evening, I have some level of expectation that I'll be able to chit-chat with the servicer and perhaps meet someone new at the business I've gone to (I understand that you can always talk to the stripper after the show - well, sometimes - but I honestly prefer a conversation to be enmeshed into the entertainment of the evening).

Of course, I try not to make the mistake of then projecting my own preferences onto the legislative process or, worse, onto absolute moral systems. Sticking out tongue

 

But anyway, yes, what you're saying makes sense. The hang-up was in the matter you clarified at the beginning of this post.

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"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940