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Haha
Good one Jill.
By the way, I'm wearing my "I only support gay marriage if both chicks are hot" T-shirt right now.
Do you find that offensive?
I ask because I once got an offended comment from a punker-girl that I assume was a lesbian, when I was at a punk concert with that T-shirt on.
And to be honest, I kinda got offended that she was offended at it. I felt that she miscaracterized me.
But even so, I put myself out there when I wear T-shirts with political and cultural satire on it, so I guess I kinda have to accept that people will have opinions about it.
So I guess I just want to know, how do you, as a lesbian perceive that joke?
And I suppose I could ask the same of our other gay members here, the male ones too. How do YOU percieve that joke, as homosexual males?
Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin
I guess it would be offensive if I thought you were serious about the "I only support gay marriage if..." part. Also, I know a few people who really find male attraction to them disgusting, I suppose that joke might get on their nerves.
I wonder why I've never seen a "I support gay marriage only if both guys are hot" version?
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
I guess that punker-girl was a lesbian, but wasn't hot.
I only support women in general if they're hot.
In all seriousness though, I don't give a flying fuck if anybody is gay, married, or any combination thereof. I think people need to grow the fuck up and start keeping their opinions about it to themselves instead of holding everyone else down. I just don't understand why they put so much effort into causing misery for others. On the plus side it makes for great humor. The video was awesome.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace
I've yet to hear a straight woman say: "Man, male gay porn is sooo hot!". Which I suppose is a shame, since it means the balance is tipped in the lesbians favour. I think because both straight men, and straight women, have an easier time imagining, and perhaps even fantasising about lesbian sexual intimasy, lesbians in turn find it easier to be accepted in society just generally, compared to gay men.
Do you find that to be the case, or do you think that's a wrong assumption on my part?
I had a conversation with my girlfriend the other day about how she actually fantasises, not so much about lesbian sex, but about the female body, and imagining and focusing on the female body, when she thinks about sex.
She is decidedly non-lesbian, my girlfriend, which I know since she got rather freaked out at first when she found out a good friend of hers was a bi-sexual, and had a bit of a crush on her. I had to talk her through it, and show her how it was no different than if a guy she wasn't at all attracted to her had a crush on her.
But she does have some issues with sex, since she is very beautiful, and has been very sexualized since she was 14, and has sexualized herself alot.
She's the classic Madonna/whore type of personality. Really she's somewhat conservative about sex, or at least a little anxious about it (well she was when I met her, I'd like to think I have matured her somewhat in that department), but at the same time, she is very very focused on her looks, and on her effect on men. In a sense, she is not very confortable with her own sexuality, and yet, she has made most of her teens only about her beauty and her effect on men.
I think therefore that is why she is turned on by images of the female body. When she thinks about sex, she thinks about herself. She is sort of the centerpiece of any sexual fantasy she has, because she is so focused on how her imaginary partner perceives her.
I can imagine, in the culture in which we live, with Victoria's Secret billboards on the side of skyscrapers, that many straight women might have some of the same tendancies. Therefore no: "I only support gay marriage if both guys are hot" T-shirts
Another thing, I remember going to see "Brokeback Mountain" with her when she was younger, and rather more messed up sexually than she is now.
I was very touched by the love-story, and cried at times, while she couldn't invest herself emotionally in a male gay relationship, and actually was kinda freaked out that I could.
I think that because her fantasy-life as it pertained to romance and sex, was more or less a Barbie/Disney princess like fairie-tale fantasy world, she wasn't ready to connect the idea that two men can love eachother like a square-jawed prince, and a blonde princess in a sparkly dress can.
Wow, that was a long, and rather personally intrusive post, just to give my thoughts on that subject...
Well, you don't know my girlfriend personally, so I think it's okay.
Anyway, she's since moved on from all of that, and has embrassed her sexuality in a much more mature way. She's a woman now, not a girl anymore.
Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin
Well, yes, I am guessing that too, but the thing is, the butt of the joke is straight men. Me specifically, since I'm wearing the shirt (I am the "I" in "I only support..." after all) and just hypocritical straight men in general.
Obviously I support gay marriage regardless of gender or level of hotness, but I think that should be obvious, since why would I wear the shirt otherwise?
I am the one the shirt ridicules after all, and if I am so stupid that I haven't noticed that when I bought it, then that is just even more funny for any person watching it.
Either I am being intentionally ironic by wearing the shirt, or I am making a fool of myself.
Eitherway the punker girl shouldn't feel threatened, attacked or insulted by it. That is insulting to me.
Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin
I don't know about actual gay porn, but I have met quite a few straight girls who think two boys kissing is the hottest thing ever. They tend to idealise gay male relationships and think it's the most romantic thing ever.
Oh, and thanks for the great vid, Jill.
Thanks, Jill.
A friend of mine is getting upset about the whole situation; she's been reading about the vandalism and other bad behavior by some same-sex advocates. She's frustrated that some folks do the wrong things, supporting the right thing. And, she hates that it seems there is very little progress.
I think she's wrong, and this video is Exhibit A. I think there's a lot of progress. I think we'll see the beginning of the resolution in the next five years. I sent this to her; I hope it cheers her up.
It cheered me up, anyway.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
I think it is a sensuality issue. Women are like sportscars, all curves and soft angles, very pleasing to the eye. Men are like farm trucks, rough, blocky, covered with grime, and belching gas. A lot of people turn their heads to look when a corvette cruises by. Nobody cares when the 3/4 ton behemoth with a gun rack in the rear window rumbles past.
It takes a village to raise an idiot.
Save a tree, eat a vegetarian.
Sometimes " The Majority " only means that all the fools are on the same side.
Excellent video. Reminiscent of the bygone days of MST3K. Also, it's very good advice to try and make yourself appear larger.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
I've known many women who are intrigued by gay porn or who, as was mentioned, think it's very romantic. But, then, women aren't as prone to watch or be turned on by graphic porn as men (of any type)... so we shouldn't be surprised if there's just not the interest in gay male porn, unless it's printed with ample euphemisms for erect penises. That is to say, I'm not surprised if anyone hasn't heard a woman say, 'Man, male gay porn is sooo hot!' (What woman would actually utter the sentence so?)... In fact, I've largely only heard women talk about how they don't watch any porn at all and there's ample studies that conclude the same thing over and over again: men (largely) like graphic porn and watch it, women (largely) don't. (Don't tell me that you're the exception, there's lots of exceptions).
Now, since women don't really watch graphic porn, should we be surprised if there's not more acceptance of gay men sexually? No. Also, it's more socially acceptable (and this has been hashed many times on the site) for women to experiment. There's a long history of it. It's not even a well kept secret in society. Pretty much everyone is okay with female sexuality. What about men? Well, I'm fairly certain that every boy has experimented, or at least been sexual to some degree with another boy regardless of their sexuality. It's not something that's exactly talked about and, of course, no one, let alone men is exactly comfortable with male sexuality. It's just not explored or seen in society the same way as female sexuality. There's no top 50 songs titled 'I kissed a boy (and I liked it)' and there's not likely to be any time soon.
Further, it should be noted that gay males have made for themselves a thriving sub-culture inhabited only by other gay males and the token dyke. It's a world where everyone is gay and where everyone is okay with male sexuality (in all its forms) and it's not a world wherein the rest of society lives. You might say that there're two worlds (the sub-culture and the mainstream) in which a gay guy must live (or that he must choose between) and that in so creating a culture in which gay is okay and male sexuality is a given they've alientated themselves from general societal acceptance. It certainly seems so... but then there're 'metrosexuals' and 'hipsters' and those queer (literally) 'emo' boys. So, perhaps society is just coming to accept male sexuality and apparently, in coming out, the exploration of male sexuality in the mainstream culture is bluring gender lines, 'cause it's already okay to be a girl?
I'd comment on the OP, but half the interwebs are blocked here.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Well, as much as I don't usually like to harp on a single point, this one kind of bugs me. If the standard for a song being gay is that it has to be very gay, then no, I don't think that such a thing will happen in the next ten years. However, such a restrictive standard may do a real disservice to what gay music does exist.
As an example, I would ask you to consider the Village People. They basically never tried to hide the fact that they were gay and they went to the top of the charts with several obviously provocative songs.
You are, of course, correct in stating that there are somewhat insular subcultures and they often do make music that is designed with shock value in mind. Bearforce one comes to mind. Even then, some of that music is gaining acceptance. Johnny McGovern's “Soccer Practice” has been used in the background of a few HBO shows.
Then too, if we allow for a wider definition, there is a significant body of gay music that has topped the charts. Acts such as Queen, Elton John and David Bowie have all made chart topping songs that at the very least, hinted about the song being about homosexuality. Also, Pete Townshend has been quite open about the fact that he wrote much of his solo work as gay love songs.
=
Gay Marriage, Straight Marriage, it's all fine with me. But I think there's has been too much focus on the wrong issue. I don't think Dog-people and Cat-people should marry each other. We all know it's just going to end in tears.
I'm a dog-person, and I married a dog-person. If a dog-and-cat couple move in down the street, do you know what that does to the sacred sanctity of my dog-based marriage?
Well, I suppose technically nothing. But still...I don't like it, and I'll make sure to enforce my opinion on other people's lives whenever possible. And don't even get me started on such kinky relationships like python/fish couples or rabbit/iguana couples. Think of the children!
PS: DOGS RULE!
The title of my proposed song is a parallel of Katy Perry's and of significance because I was discussing the societal acceptance of female sexuality versus that of male sexuality. Clearly no straight male is going to make a song about how he, 'kissed a boy and he liked it because it's fun to have fun and who cares maybe some girls think it's hot... and it's fun, who cares?'. I was not discussing the relative popularity of music artists who are gay or who have vaguely or addmittedly gay song lyrics. I was making a point about how male sexuality isn't 'explored or seen in society the same way as female sexuality'. /End
And I must get this out, don't take it personally: Oh, my god! You go on long when you have an objection! Ah! Seriously! Ah! Was I that unclear? AH! /indignant surprise.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
For the record, I do recall seeing a male shirt that said "I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is"
http://www.cafepress.com/thefunnyshirts/803969
As for why less women watch porn and there's not hot gay guys shirts is because women aren't as sex crazed as guys are.
I've seen t-shirts like that... but I'm fairly certain that that particular t-shirt would be worn by a gay guy... an inside joke maybe for 'straight-acting' gays.
Oh, I finally saw the video. I love satire.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Oh they aren't?
I'm glad that in your infinite wisdom you can tell me that I'm sex crazed, much more so than all the women in the world.
There are exceptions to the rule, though.
Let me give you an example:
I frequent these message boards on the internet right?
On these boards is this one girl who cannot stop obsessing about sex. She always makes every subject about sex, and about how guys are only interested in that one thing.
She is very focused on her own appearance, and on what effect she has on men. All she ever talks about is sex. She claims she's a virgin, and I believe her, because clearly she is absolutely gagging for a shag. She is completely obsessed about men's perception of women, a sure sign that she wants to find a man that percieves her in a way that will make her feel sexy and horny, so that she can get it on.
Her avatarname is Cpt. Pinapple.
Sorry Alison, but I had to do it. When you piss me off with your judgemental attitude, you provoke me into judging you back. You may not think about it, but when you call every single man on the face of the Earth a filthy sex-crazed pig, then you are calling me a filthy sex-crazed pig. So you reap as you sow.
And I'm actually serious about that you should go out and have sex.
I'm not saying you should just go out and lay down in front of the first man you meet, not at all.
I'm saying go out and fall in love with a kind, loving, mature, smart guy, and start having some wonderful, beautiful, magical sex with him. Trust me, it will do wonders for your stress-level, your self-esteem, and your hapiness.
Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin
Gay porn is so hot!
For the life in me, I will never understand the objections to gay marriage.
As far as women and gay male porn... Brokeback Mountain. Chicks love this movie.
As for me... I love vagina. That goes for surgically created ones as well. There are a few things on my 'bucket list' that are impractical; one of which is banging Calpernia Addams. I've taken a lot of derision from everyone I've said this to... until I show them a picture of her. lol.
The conditioning we have received regarding gender 'roles' warrants an entry into the irrational precepts section. Yes?
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Just let it. You don't like gay marriage don't marry someone the same sex.
If you see two gays getting married, make a loud noise. Try to make yourself appear larger as to intimidate the gays.
That was the funniest part. That jackass flailing his arms around with that stupid-ass look on his face. LMAO
Daniel (not the Hebrew guy)
Was this attack warranted? Males think about sex, masturbate, watch porn, and pursue virtually every sexually related activity more than females; this is a fact. Also, I haven't been on this forum as long as you, but Pineapple is clearly intelligent enough to know that the original statement was a generalization, and I highly doubt there was any malicious intent behind her statement.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
I don't think my view on men is a secret and that's what Nikolaj is refering to.
However, I have no idea where the whole "Cpt_pineapple needs sex came from."
But whatever, I'll drop it there because I don't want another psych session.
Butterblade.
I'm very very tired of Pinapple's man-hatred. I am a man, and I don't like to be hated simply for being a man.
And unlike fundies she clearly is intellegent enough, like you say, to notice the unfairness of her judgemental utterings, which is excactly what pisses me off about her. She should be better than that. She could be better than that, if she didn't choose to continue to hate herself and everyone around her.
I want to like her, which is why I invest myself emotionally more in her, than our fundie visitors here. They can't get my blood boiling. Alison can, because she's a good, smart, kind, clever person, who continually chooses to be an bad, stupid, malicious, crude person.
Warranted? I don't know. I'm an emotional person, and I say what I feel. Pretty much every other statement Pinapple makes pisses me off.
And it is my experience that even though men and women certainly approach sexuality from different angles, and certainly women are somewhat more "complicated", if you will, in their sexuality, they are still not any less "sex-crazed" than men.
I'd like you to show me how it is a fact that men are more "sex-crazed" than women. What does sex-crazed even mean? It sounds offensive to me, because it sounds like an unnatural level of sexual fixation.
And I for one object to the fact that there is something wrong with, or unnatural about my level of sexual fixation. I have a perfectly normal and healthy level of sexual thoughts and activities, and my sexuality fits perfectly with the women I have slept with in my life. I don't wan't sex "too much" compared to them.
I'm sorry if I'm too aggresive, but I think it is extremely sexist to claim that men are too fixated on sex.
Well I was born an original sinner
I was spawned from original sin
And if I had a dollar bill for all the things I've done
There'd be a mountain of money piled up to my chin
Totally.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Blur - Girls and Boys reached the top 5 in the UK
chorus-
Girls Who Are Boys
Who Like Boys To Be Girls
Who Do Boys Like They're Girls
Who Do Girls Like They're Boys
Always Should Be Someone You Really Love
Free love!
What is your view on men? I have no idea. You don't have to respond if you don't want another, uuuuhhh, psych session.
She does?
I really don't know what "sex-crazed" means or what a person would have to do to qualify as "sex-crazed." I was merely pointing out that men clearly watch more porn than women. When polled, men masturbate more than women. There's one myth going around that men think about sex every 52 seconds. This is obviously a ridiculous exaggeration. However, even research groups like the Kinsey Institutes claim that men think about sex drastically more than women.
http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/FAQ.html
Haha, I'm not offended by this phenomenon at all. Although, to be honest:
1) I'm a virgin.
2) It's nearly impossible for anything to offend me at this point.
3) I don't care much about what other people think, especially if the topic is so trivial, i.e. - whether or not I'm "sex-crazed."
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Also, if you have a particular problem with Cpt. ... and Captain never said anything here that would have led me to voice any objection like you did... don't you think it would be better to raise the issue with Cpt. without being so public? Oh, nevermind, do what you want.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Then I would suggest that we are misunderstanding each other. From just two minutes of googling, it seems that Kate Perry may not only be straight but also, there is a feeling that she may be a homophobe.
So yah, that, if true, would confirm my earlier suspicion that she really is not into the gay stuff so much as she (or at least her producer) knows that keying into girl/girl stuff is likely to sell records. Even so, I would not use her as the yardstick of what is acceptable in today's culture.
Hence the reason why I offered up the village people as an example of what has been at the top of the charts. Now granted, that was twenty five years ago and a lot has changed in that time. Some of the gay culture went back underground in part because of HIV. Also, the gay shock culture has come to the fore and what goes on there is just not going to get airplay on the public air waves.
Well sure, we live in the world that we live in. A song such as “I kissed a boy” is not going to get airplay in this world. However, that is not because the music does not exist. It is more because the corporate interests are afraid of the impact that it might have on the rest of the product line.
Do you remember a few years ago when the fundies started the crap about the Disney corporation being “gay friendly” and mounting a boycott? That mess went so far that ABC was effected (Disney owned ABC at the time). The show “Home Improvement” got tagged by some fundies as being “against family values”. Um, say what? The whole show was about a really regular family with relatively normal (if comically framed) issues.
Nah, I am just long winded. Not enough to consider running for the senate but even so...
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