FITNA + Pat Condell responds + Comments from moderates

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FITNA + Pat Condell responds + Comments from moderates

 

ABOUT FITNA

A brief video (approx 15min) highlighting the militant themes of Islam plus the resulting violence and intolerance that those messages have visited upon the world in recent years. Wilders has called the film “a call to shake off the creeping tyranny of Islamization”

http://www.themoviefitna.com/fitna-the-movie/

PAT CONDELL TALKS ABOUT FITNA

IN "FREEDOM GO TO HELL"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW6PRABq4HM

 

MODERATES RESPOND

 

Dav wrote:

if islam really was that bad as described in this movie, this film itself would be much worse than koran, the bible of islam...

....it seems like the logic of this movie is fundamentally flawed. the director of this film is simply a hater against a particular not a self-labelled freedom fighter.

this is a great example of a double-standard political nonsense.

 

Adam  Ramoth wrote:

I see 54 million Muslims in Europe, but I dont see all as radicalists. Most are normal people just getting on with their lives...

...This film shows a terrible side to Islam and would make anyone fear and thats what they want...

...The people who really need to be brought to justice are happily going about there business and they are laughing and apploarding videos like this.

 

Valina Amira wrote:

SALAMO ALAIKUM this video is halarious .. you disbelivers of ALLAH go out of your way to make islam look like the worst religon ..when it is the most peacful religon that was reveald.. wildar took the surah out of context and used it to his advantage to manipulate and poision the minds of non muslims..you disbelivers know that islam is the right religon but you just dont want to admit it.. from when islam is the fastest growing religon with people reverting from other religons to become muslims.. FUTHER MORE some of the most famous lecturous and prechers..are ENGLISH BLACK AMERICANS and others all reverts..jihad is taken out of its meaning and twisted this ALLAH which is our GOD and also you disbelivers GOD..i dont have anything else to say but you will realise this on judgment day when you will come face to face with ALLAH and be questiond on the matter of this subject.. DONT STEREO-TYPE those terrorist bombers so called muslims that say there killing innocent people for the sake of ALLAH are not muslims as it states in the quran ..SUICIDE is haram.. WA ALAIKUM SALAM

 

Austin Hammond wrote:

This film is nothing short of the truth how much more are we supposed to let happen before we wake up to the real threat of the muslim faith.People who have veiwed this film cannot denie what is said in black and white the muslim faith is becoming a global threat.This is not suspicion the facts are stairing us as a nation in the face is the goverment so stupid that it cannot see what is going to happen if i can see it then so can they.

vote bnp keep our country christian.

(emphasis Archeopteryx's)

Valina & Sirkina wrote:

SALAMO ALAIKUM….YOU PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT, NARROW MINDED ..PLEASE GO AND RESEARCH ON ISLAM AS IT ONLY SPREADS PEACE THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (SAWS) WAS CHOSEN TO UNITE EVERYONE AS HE ONLY LIVED A LIFE OF LOVE KINDNESS PEACE FAITH .. I THINK YOU SHOULD GO AND READ THE BOOK ( THE LIFE OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMED (SAWS) AND YOU WILL SEE .. AND READ (WHAT IS ISLAM) YOU WILL SEE THAT ISLAM MEANS PEACE .. AT THE END OF THE DAY US MUSLIMS DONT NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING TO YOU DISBELIVERS.. WE KNOW THERE IS A GOD.. AND BY THE WAY THIS MOVIE THAT HAS BEEN MADE IS NOT A FREEDOM OF SPEECH .. ITS AN ACT OF DISCRIMINATION..THIS SHOULDNT BE ALOUD BUT ITS OK BECUASE THIS ONLY MAKES US STRONGER. WA ALAIKUM SALAM

 

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

For me, this video wasn't only about Islam. All I kept thinking about through the entire film were the warnings of Sam Harris and others that, sure, this only emphasizes the extreme, but it is the moderates who chant "but that's only the BAD side. What about the GOOD side?" who are continually leaving the door open for such extremism.

 

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

 

The old saying now seems creepy in a whole new way.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


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Why is it always that

Why is it always that religious lunatics are always so incoherent? They always write in capital letters, with no regard for spelling, syntax or grammar, and making points that are combinations of non sequiturs and vague, ultimately meaningless shouting.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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IIRC, most of the extremists

IIRC, most of the extremists come form Saudi Arabia, the same Saudi Arabia that the U.S is actively supporting to get oil.

 

So let me get this straight:

 

America: Hey Saudi Arabia, you over-charge us for oil, making billion of dollars of profit, then you spread these nutjobs to hate America around the world. So not only are you grossly overcharging you're also attacking us.

 

Bin Laden's been pissing and moaning about U.S military presence in Saudi Arabia, I think the U.S should start using them.

 

 

I'm a pacifist so I don't know in which capacity.

 

Or better yet, fuck Saudi Arabia all together, you just took an entire country with oil [ironically Hussein was with the Ba'ath party which isn't Islamic, you managed to get tough with the only Persian-Gulf country that wasn't Islamist.]

 

That's how you stop this garabage.

 

America is dickheads to every other country, get off your oil addiction and start dicking with them.

 

 

Kennedy didn't kiss ass to Kruschev during the Cuban missile crisis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:America

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

America is dickheads to every other country, get off your oil addiction and start dicking with them.

Seriously. I think we need to get totally decentralized with our power grid and all solar and wind up in this. Ditch a lot of the plastics we use, too. We can use either corn plastics or glass instead.

From what I understand, OPEC wants to cut production to try and keep oil above a certain price. Of course, they know if it goes too high, people will actually move on to cheaper pastures.

-Triften


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:Kennedy

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Kennedy didn't kiss ass to Kruschev during the Cuban missile crisis.

 

He should have. Russia had every right to come to Cuba's defense against an illegal military base forced upon them. Too bad it ended the way it did.

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Vastet wrote:an illegal

Vastet wrote:
an illegal military base forced upon them.

 

Um no...

 

Quote:
Signed by the President of Cuba, February 16, 1903; Signed by the President of the United States, February 23, 1903

AGREEMENT

Between the United States of America and the Republic of Cuba for the lease (subject to terms to be agreed upon by the two Governments) to the United States of lands in Cuba for coaling and naval stations.

The United States of America and the Republic of Cuba, being desirous to execute fully the provisions of Article VII of the Act of Congress approved March second, 1901, and of Article VII of the Appendix to the Constitution of the Republic of Cuba promulgated on the 20th of May, 1902, which provide:

"ARTICLE VII. To enable the United States to maintain the independence of Cuba, and to protect the people thereof, as well as for its own defense, the Cuban Government will sell or lease to the United States the lands necessary for coaling or naval stations, at certain specified points, to be agreed upon with the President of the United States."

have reached an agreement to that end, as follows:

ARTICLE I

The Republic of Cuba hereby leases to the United States, for the time required for the purposes of coaling and naval stations, the following described areas of land and water situated in the Island of Cuba:

1st. In Guantanamo (see Hydrographic Office Chart 1857). From a point on the south coast, 4.37 nautical miles to the eastward of Windward Point Light House, a line running north (true) a distance of 4.25 nautical miles;

From the northern extremity of this line, a line running west (true), a distance of 5.87 nautical miles;

From the western extremity of this last line, a line running southwest (true) 3.31 nautical miles;

From the southwestern extremity of this last line, a line running south (true) to the seacoast.

This lease shall be subject to all the conditions named in Article II of this agreement.

2nd. In Northwestern Cuba (see Hydrographic Office Chart 2036).

In Bahia Honda (see Hydrographic Office Chart 520b).

All that land included in the peninsula containing Cerro del Morrillo and Punta del Carenero situated to the westward of a line running south (true) from the north coast at a distance of thirteen hundred yards east (true) from the crest of Cerro del Morrillo, and all the adjacent waters touching upon the coast line of the above described peninsula and including the estuary south of Punta del Carenero with the control of the headwaters as necessary for sanitary and other purposes.

And in addition all that piece of land and its adjacent waters on the western side of the entrance to Bahia Honda including between the shore line and a line running north and south (true) to low water marks through a point which is west (true) distant one nautical mile from Pta. del Cayman.

ARTICLE II

The grant of the foregoing Article shall include the right to use and occupy the waters adjacent to said areas of land and water, and to improve and deepen the entrances thereto and the anchorages therein, and generally to do any and all things necessary to fit the premises for use as coaling or naval stations only, and for no other purpose.

Vessels engaged in the Cuban trade shall have free passage through the waters included within this grant.

ARTICLE III

While on the one hand the United States recognizes the continuance of the ultimate sovereignty of the Republic of Cuba over the above described areas of land and water, on the other hand the Republic of Cuba consents that during the period of the occupation by the United States of said areas under the terms of this agreement the United States shall exercise complete jurisdiction and control over and within said areas with the right to acquire (under conditions to be hereafter agreed upon by the two Governments) for the public purposes of the United States any land or other property therein by purchase or by exercise of eminent domain with full compensation to the owners thereof.

Done in duplicate at Habana, and signed by the President of the

[SEAL] Republic of Cuba this sixteenth day of February, 1903.

T. ESTRADA PALMA

Signed by the President of the United States the twenty-third of February, 1903.

[SEAL] THEODORE ROOSEVELT

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Quote:IIRC, most of the

Quote:

IIRC, most of the extremists come form Saudi Arabia, the same Saudi Arabia that the U.S is actively supporting to get oil.

Can you perhaps quantify 'most' for us, Alison, given that not everyone has your apparent political omnipotence?

 

Quote:
So let me get this straight:

 

America: Hey Saudi Arabia, you over-charge us for oil, making billion of dollars of profit, then you spread these nutjobs to hate America around the world. So not only are you grossly overcharging you're also attacking us.

Well, no, not quite. You see, the thing about hydrocarbons is that they are an increasingly rare & non-renewable commodity. As the oil supply decreases, the price for oil increases.

OPEC has been under charging for the oil for far too long.

Quote:
Bin Laden's been pissing and moaning about U.S military presence in Saudi Arabia, I think the U.S should start using them.

Bin Laden is a dishonest religious lunatic.

I don't think basing policy decisions around what he pisses and moans about is a very good idea.

Quote:

America is dickheads to every other country, get off your oil addiction and start dicking with them.

 

 

Kennedy didn't kiss ass to Kruschev during the Cuban missile crisis.

Yes, Kennedy did. This is why the planet is not currently a frozen, irridiated sphere of nothingness. Sticking out tongue

'Kissing ass' (otherwise known as 'diplomacy') is rather central to any set of policies that aren't strictly authoritarian.

 

...Oh, why do I even bother?

Go have fun. Oh, wait, I forgot - having fun is evil.

 

Go be miserable, then. Sticking out tongue

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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Kevin R Brown wrote:Can you

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Can you perhaps quantify 'most' for us, Alison, given that not everyone has your apparent political omnipotence?

 

 

 

 

Most of the Al Quada's terrorists come from Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden himself recieved his engineering education and worked with his family's firm in Saudi Arabia.

 

I would hazard a guess the majority of the Islamic protesters either were born there and immigrated or come form a family that was.

 

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Well, no, not quite. You see, the thing about hydrocarbons is that they are an increasingly rare & non-renewable commodity. As the oil supply decreases, the price for oil increases.

OPEC has been under charging for the oil for far too long.

 

Aren't you in Alberta where the provincal tax is non-existant due to the oil sand profits?

 

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Yes, Kennedy did. This is why the planet is not currently a frozen, irridiated sphere of nothingness. Sticking out tongue

'Kissing ass' (otherwise known as 'diplomacy') is rather central to any set of policies that aren't strictly authoritarian.

 

 

Show me pics of Kennedy in the Kremlin  smoking a Cuban cigar with Kruschev and taking Vodka shots and maybe you'd have a comparision between the U.S diplomacy to the Soviets vs the Saudis.

 

Kennedy used diplomacy because he understandably didn't want Soviet missiles so close to the U.S so the Soviets can save on their fuel bill if they decide to irradiate the White House and Pentagon.

 

 

The Soviets used nukes, the Saudis are using oil. The U.S should invest alternate energy souces or oil from somewhere else and either cut ties with the Saudis or stop letting them hide behind them.

 

 

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Go be miserable, then. Sticking out tongue

 

I'm always miserable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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 You two are so cute when

 You two are so cute when you fight.  I'm hardly a romantic, but I admit I've got a single tear welling up imagining a CosPlay wedding with hypoallergic catering and clean, reliable, public transportation as the getaway car...

 

 

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
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Islam is a grotesque and

Islam is a grotesque and violent religion. Fortunately most Muslems do not follow this religion to the letter, although some Saudi-Arabian Wahabist nutcases with too much money and too little sense seem to be trying their hardest to change this.

For this alone, I must admit, I view the disastrous proportions that the economic crisis has grown to in Dubai, with some grim satisfaction. I hope they pray hard there, and when they are done praying, I hope they wonder just as hard, where that Allah of them is now.


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DamnDirtyApe wrote: You two

DamnDirtyApe wrote:

 You two are so cute when you fight.  I'm hardly a romantic, but I admit I've got a single tear welling up imagining a CosPlay wedding with hypoallergic catering and clean, reliable, public transportation as the getaway car...

 

 

 

He's even using my name.

 

 

Somebody has a crush.

 

 

 


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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Vastet wrote:

an illegal military base forced upon them.

Um no...

Uhm, yes....

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Quote:
Signed by the President of Cuba, February 16, 1903; Signed by the President of the United States, February 23, 1903~etc

Illegal and forced occupation of a sovereign nation which was overthrown by the current and legitimate government of Cuba. The base currently in Cuba is the last remnant of the illegal and forced American occupation. Russia had every right to come to the defense of Cuba, and kick the Americans in the teeth as they deserved to be kicked. Get over it. You people had no business there, and deserved exactly what you got when the Cubans seized all your shit for themselves. It's really too bad that every nation you've interfered with hasn't done exactly the same thing. But it's only a matter of time.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:Answers in Gene

Vastet wrote:

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Vastet wrote:

an illegal military base forced upon them.

Um no...

Uhm, yes....

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Quote:
Signed by the President of Cuba, February 16, 1903; Signed by the President of the United States, February 23, 1903~etc

Illegal and forced occupation of a sovereign nation which was overthrown by the current and legitimate government of Cuba. The base currently in Cuba is the last remnant of the illegal and forced American occupation. Russia had every right to come to the defense of Cuba, and kick the Americans in the teeth as they deserved to be kicked. Get over it. You people had no business there, and deserved exactly what you got when the Cubans seized all your shit for themselves. It's really too bad that every nation you've interfered with hasn't done exactly the same thing. But it's only a matter of time.

Legitimate government ? if the people of cuba do not have a choice in the matter?

Second much like Hong Kong and britian, even though the communists over took mainland china, the deal was still kept until it was handed back in 1997 after 99 year agreement expired. Much like guantanamo, just because the current government didn't like the previous government (which if I recall wasn't removed from power until some 50 years after the deal with the US for guantanamo) it doesn't mean the deal is null and voided.

Now if you like to try to use the vienna convention of the law of treaties argument that castro has tried, well article 4 pretty much shoots down that argument, the reason Castro has not been able to kick the US out.  Now there are possible violations to the treaty, however Cuba would have to take the US to international court to hear it's case, which to date it has not, as such it is still a legitimate treaty and deal, as until it as proven that the treaty was broken, it will stand.


Vastet
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latincanuck wrote:Vastet

latincanuck wrote:

Vastet wrote:

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Vastet wrote:

an illegal military base forced upon them.

Um no...

Uhm, yes....

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

Quote:
Signed by the President of Cuba, February 16, 1903; Signed by the President of the United States, February 23, 1903~etc

Illegal and forced occupation of a sovereign nation which was overthrown by the current and legitimate government of Cuba. The base currently in Cuba is the last remnant of the illegal and forced American occupation. Russia had every right to come to the defense of Cuba, and kick the Americans in the teeth as they deserved to be kicked. Get over it. You people had no business there, and deserved exactly what you got when the Cubans seized all your shit for themselves. It's really too bad that every nation you've interfered with hasn't done exactly the same thing. But it's only a matter of time.

Legitimate government ? if the people of cuba do not have a choice in the matter?

The people of Cuba were the driving force of the revolution to excise the American influence and puppet leaders. They have more choice in the matter today than they did before Castro. So yes, it is as legitimate a government as Cuba has ever had this or last century.

latincanuck wrote:

Second much like Hong Kong and britian, even though the communists over took mainland china, the deal was still kept until it was handed back in 1997 after 99 year agreement expired. Much like guantanamo, just because the current government didn't like the previous government (which if I recall wasn't removed from power until some 50 years after the deal with the US for guantanamo) it doesn't mean the deal is null and voided.


 

That is an entirely different arrangement with entirely different reasoning behind it. You yourself mention that a puppet government wasn't installed in China against the will of the Chinese. Not to mention that the reason for the seizure of Hong Kong was not simply an island sitting off by itself minding its own business in the early 1900's or late 1800's.

latincanuck wrote:
Now if you like to try to use the vienna convention of the law of treaties argument that castro has tried, well article 4 pretty much shoots down that argument, the reason Castro has not been able to kick the US out.  Now there are possible violations to the treaty, however Cuba would have to take the US to international court to hear it's case, which to date it has not, as such it is still a legitimate treaty and deal, as until it as proven that the treaty was broken, it will stand.

Perhaps the reason they haven't taken it to court is two fold:

They don't believe the court has the authority to accomplish anything.

They know that the US will ignore anything the court says, which has been proven time and again. The international court is anything but an international court.

Beyond that, I consider any agreement or treaty signed by a puppet of a foreign power to be null and void. I don't give a rats ass what you or anyone else says about it.

Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.