So looking at sexy women is bad?

ragdish
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So looking at sexy women is bad?

Well according to this article in the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/feb/16/sex-object-photograph), if men look at pictures of sexy women, then neural regions dedicated to the categorization of objects (ie. tools) light up. Also, that regions in the prefrontal regions dedicated to empathy shut down. This was based on a study utilizing fMRI on heterosexual men while they viewed pictures of women in bikinis.

Unfortunately, the actual study is nowhere to be found and I assume that it has yet to be published in the journal Science. My criticisms:

1. The study did not include heterosexual women and homosexuals?

2. The areas of the brain which lit up are dedicated to the categorization and recognition/recall of concrete knowledge and nothing more ie. there is no sexist area of the brain.

3. The author seems to be rehashing the outdated idea of phrenology

4. If the author truly had any background in understanding the neural basis of emotion, that empathy does not simply "shut down". It is an innate property which varies from person to person. If a picture of a scantily clad woman truly empathy then Taliban men who keep women under wraps must be really nice guys, right?

I question the validity of this study and conclusions. I bet the author has an anti-porn bias to begin with which tainted her study design, results and conclusions. Now, this is based on what might be hearsay from the description in the Guardian. It would be nice if there was a link to the actual study if its published. Men can't show empathy towards a sexy woman because of seeing pics of gals in bikinis? Is this author serious about this claim? If she is, then it's a pseudoscientific claim IMO.


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Quote:Also, that regions in

Quote:

Also, that regions in the prefrontal regions dedicated to empathy shut down.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.

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ragdish
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Correction

"If a picture of a scantily clad woman truly empathy then Taliban men who keep women under wraps must be really nice guys, right?"

I missed a verb there. Sorry. The statement should be:

"If a picture of a scanily clad woman truly destroys empathy then Taliban men who keep women under wraps must be really nice guys, right?"


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 I couldn't find the study

 I couldn't find the study either.  My initial guess is that this is an example of sensationalist reporting of relatively neutral findings.  For one thing, women are objects.  Men are objects.  Penises and vaginas are objects.  Duh.

The notion that women shouldn't be viewed as "objects" is not the same as the observation that our brain categorizes them as objects in the materialist sense of the word.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about phrenology.  The phrenological (?) concept of brain modules is defunct, but our brains most certainly do have regions dedicated to specific tasks.  Maybe you can clarify what you mean.

I don't quite get the bit about empathy shutting down, either.  I suspect it's just drama queen speak for reduced feelings of empathy.

Look, this study is probably valid, and it's just being reported with bias.  Evolutionary psychology predicts the kind of response we're talking about.  Our genes want us to have sex.  It's well known that men's ability to perform logic goes down in the presence of attractive women.  It's also well known that women romanticize men to the point of viewing them as concepts, not individual people!  That is, they look at a man and see walks on the beach, romantic dinners, roofs being patched, and children playing catch with dad next to the white picket fence.  To women, this may seem perfectly normal, natural, and healthy, in contrast to the "unhealthy" and "immoral" views of men, but it's not any more or less normal than a man looking at a woman and seeing himself getting a blow job.  Blow jobs are just as much a part of the human experience as walks on the beach.

There's a hidden assumption in this presentation, namely that any "objectification" of women by men is a bad thing.  Nothing could be farther from the truth.  As I mentioned in my post on sex in advertising, it is perfectly natural and functional for us to have varying degrees of empathy for our fellow humans, and it's perfectly natural and functional for us to treat people with a level of social intimacy appropriate to their relative function in our lives.

In a neutral setting, this is just telling us what we already know.  If a woman dresses sexy, more men are going to want to have sex with her.  If she dresses frumpy, she's going to get put into the "platonic friend" category more often than not.  This is useful knowledge, to be sure!  If you run a business that counts on intimacy and trust among employees, insist on sexually neutral clothing, and you'll foster friendship and comeraderie.  If you run a restaurant that sells wings, and you want to talk your customers into lots of impulse buys, put your waitresses in short shorts and skin tight low cut shirts.

There's nothing inherently wrong with either of these approaches, just as there is nothing wrong with men looking at porn and getting themselves into a sexual tizzy.  For that matter, there's nothing inherently wrong with two people treating each other like objects for an hour or so and then having a cigarette.  The human experience is quite broad, and there is a time and a place for nearly all of it.

 

 

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ragdish
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Hambydammit wrote: I'm not

Hambydammit wrote:

 I'm not quite sure what you mean about phrenology.  The phrenological (?) concept of brain modules is defunct, but our brains most certainly do have regions dedicated to specific tasks.  Maybe you can clarify what you mean.

The author implies that just because the neural regions dedicated to object recognition light up when seeing a sexy gal that sexual objectification of an individual is therefore encapsulated in that region. If that were the case, then phrenology would be correct. Unfortunately the author likely knows nothing about the neural basis of cognition which is the product of distributed activity within the brain. Even the philosopher Jerry Fodor who defined the concept of neural modules would agree. A module is more of a functional/computational term rather than a specific anatomic locus.

The author is confusing the social phenomenon of "objectification" with regions of the brain dedicated to inanimate object recognition which have no agency. When viewing a sexy pic, along with sexual arousal, we naturally infer agency upon the person in the pic. It is natural to assume that the woman in the Playboy centerfold wants to fuck. She's therefore, not an inanimate object.


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 Quote:Even the philosopher

 

Quote:
Even the philosopher Jerry Fodor who defined the concept of neural modules would agree. A module is more of a functional/computational term rather than a specific anatomic locus.

Ok, I get what you are saying, and I agree.

Quote:
The author is confusing the social phenomenon of "objectification" with regions of the brain dedicated to inanimate object recognition which have no agency.

That's what I was saying.  Women are objects in the phenomenological sense.  (I'm using Dan Dennett's version of phenomenology there, FYI.)

 

 

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deludedgod wrote:Quote:Also,

deludedgod wrote:

Quote:

Also, that regions in the prefrontal regions dedicated to empathy shut down.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.

What about the God Hypothesis?

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Article wrote:In the study,

Article wrote:

In the study, Fiske's team put straight men into an MRI brain scanner and showed them images of either clothed men and women, or more scantily clad men and women. When they took a memory test afterwards, the men best remembered images of bikini-clad women whose heads had been digitally removed.

 

Actually, the study had a control, the men and the clothed women.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it were true quite frankly, but then again images like that are everywhere so we've been somewhat de-sensitized to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Do you have a link to the

Do you have a link to the study Cpt?


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 Quote:I wouldn't be

 

Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised if it were true quite frankly, but then again images like that are everywhere so we've been somewhat de-sensitized to them.

~Sigh~

Yes, the study is probably true.  The point is that it's a misleading article that probably doesn't represent the true implications (and lack of certain implications) in the study.

 

 

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 Well, you know what they

 

Well, you know what they say: The forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest.

 

Does it ever!


Cpt_pineapple
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MichaelMcF wrote:Do you have

MichaelMcF wrote:

Do you have a link to the study Cpt?

No, I couldn't find it, I quoted the article from the link in the OP

 

But I found her facualty webpage and her personal webpage

 

 

 

Quote:

Yes, the study is probably true.  The point is that it's a misleading article that probably doesn't represent the true implications (and lack of certain implications) in the study.

 

 

 

When I said "I wouldn't be surprised if it were true" I was talking about the implications.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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 What are those

 What are those implications in your opinion?

 

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To be honest I was going to

To be honest I was going to go on a rant, but then I actually thought about what I was saying and noticed I was rambling.


 

Whatever, forget I said anything about it.

 

 

 


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Well, Alison: are you a

Well, Alison: are you a biologist?

 

Because I don't think you are. And the one person in this thread who is said that the implications were, 'The most ridiculous thing he had ever heard'.

But I guess the opinion of professionals doesn't really matter anyway, right?

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 Well, I think he was

 Well, I think he was talking about the statement that regions of the brain "shut down."  That is patently absurd.

 

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Kevin R Brown wrote:Well,

Kevin R Brown wrote:

Well, Alison: are you a biologist?

 

Because I don't think you are. And the one person in this thread who is said that the implications were, 'The most ridiculous thing he had ever heard'.

But I guess the opinion of professionals doesn't really matter anyway, right?

Sticking out tongue

 

Actually it would be neurology, which I believe ragdish is, but even so, if you care to throw around authority the authour was a psychologist.

 

 

But arguments from authourity are irrelevant, what matters is the data.

 

I've never seen the study, and ragdish admitted that he hasn't either.

 

So until the study is read, I'd rather not go into it any more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Gee, that study doesn't

Gee, that study doesn't sound the least bit biased...


Hambydammit
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 Quote:Gee, that study

 

Quote:
Gee, that study doesn't sound the least bit biased...

Was I biased?  While I was reading the article, my other monitor had a picture of a hot girl humping a dildo.  I think maybe that means I was biased.

 

 

 

 

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I can't believe what I am

I can't believe what I am reading here, it shouldn't even be a debate. WE ARE ATHEISTS AND HAVE NO MORALS!

It is up to us to rape, pillage and spread cooties and barbeque kittens!

We wouldnn't want others thinking we have common ground with them.

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Quote:Actually it would be

Quote:
Actually it would be neurology, which I believe ragdish is, but even so, if you care to throw around authority the authour was a psychologist.

I was not 'throwing around authority'. I was establishing level of expertise.

 

I presume you recognize that there is such a thing?

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940