Someone Please Assure Me That I'm Wrong.

Zymotic
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Someone Please Assure Me That I'm Wrong.

The past week or so, I've been really down-in-the-dumps, and I don't know why. I think I might just be beginning to detest the whole of the human condition. I think that Orwell said it best in a chapter of 1984: The upper class doesn't give a shit because the system is built for them. The lower class does care about things like justice and equality, but have no power to do anything about it or not enough education to know what to do about it. The middle class only care about becoming the upper class and will pretend to work with the lower class to get their support. Nobody ever really moves out of their respective level.

This idea is reinforced by the area I live in. It's in the bible belt. The upper class controls everything and their kids go to the private schools and leave town, etc. The lower class kids drop out and work fast food. The middle class kids go to community college and act like it's a real college. I fucking hate people who go to college so they will make more money instead of wanting the knowledge presented in the classes.

No one in my town has any goddamn sense about anything. No one my age, anyway. I feel increasingly lonely. I haven't talked to my best friend in 3 weeks because he got a girlfriend and can't ever leave her side. My other friends either got new friends or moved. I'm terrible at making friends-- I've had the exact same set of friends since 7th grade. That's the one thing that scares me about college next year. I'm afraid that I'll be just as terrible at making friends there as I've always been and I will essentially waste half of college.

I feel like I'll be somewhere between numb and sad for a long time.

Sorry for rambling. I just don't have anyone else to tell.  

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I was terrible at making

I was terrible at making freinds in high school, but things are different in college. All of a sudden it was easy to find women I wanted to date and people I could be freinds with. I wouldn't worry about it. Things are just so different here than they were in high school. After a year or two of college you will be a whole new person, trust me on that.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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You're going to college?

You're going to college? Well, problem solved mostly. Are you also moving on campus? That would help a lot.

Going away to university was the best possible thing I did for my social life (after highschool, which had sucked for me). I guess it probably depends what college you go to. If it's a small local college and you live at home, you'll have less opportunities. But if it's a larger one, or if it's well-known and so attracts intelligent people, or if it's in another town and you have to move away from home, you'll have lots more opportunities to meet intelligent and interesting people.

In the mean time, I wish I had some advice. I'm also pretty bad at making new friends. I guess over the years I've learned a few things. Big number one: Don't compromise who you are just to make/keep a friendship. Keep looking until you find people who you really like and have something in common with. I guess number two would be: Don't 'try' to make friends, just go out and do something you enjoy somewhere where there's other people around. Whether it's listening to music and/or dancing and/or partying, or if it's some hobby you have, or whatever. Be comfortable enjoying yourself on your own, and you will meet and attract people who are good potential friends. I met more friends when I stopped 'trying' to make friends than any other time. And they were much better friends too.

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After creating this thread,

After creating this thread, I took some time to clean my room and meditate on my situation. I feel a little bit better (and also less cluttered). I think I'll be ok, eventually.

 

And to answer your question about the college I will be attending, I am going to Washington University in St. Louis.

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I think it generally helps

I think it generally helps to think about coming to terms with the difference between the normal realities and the harsher ones.

Is it really that bad for some people to want money, others to want knowledge, and others still to want an rather meaningless but easy lifestyle? People, for some reason, think money should and does govern the nature of people. While economy is important, whether or not somebody has money reflects the amount of desire they have for it and therefore how much of an effort they are willing to put forth for that desire. I'm a middle class person because I choose not to put forth enough effort to be an upper class person.

Those who choose not to exceed their class have, for the most part made their choice. While its true, that unfortunate things can happen to people who could otherwise be successful, I believe people have far more control over their lives then they think. But if a person chooses to remain in the lowest class and doesn't want to sacrifice the time and energy to leave it, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that.

Hell, the lower class has it better than the middle class. I'm not trying to improve my success, I'm quite happy as I am. In our economic system, it's much easier to go from lower class to middle class then it is to get from middle to upper. Hopefully Obama will help to change that, but I'm not counting on a economic climate shift. In truth, I'm happy where I am anyways, and anyone who tells me I didn't put forth effort, make the sacrifices, and have to get over major stumbling blocks to get here, obviously knows nothing about me or what I've done.


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I feel somewhat glum from

I feel somewhat glum from Nov. to Mar..

It could be SADS. I occasionally took antidepressants which helped temporally, but I've basically relinquished that the gray dim sky of the winter months are going to affect me this way. And of course when I feel this way it affects my thoughts towards everything.

The sun would periodically suddenly show up to alleviate the blues, even if there is snow on the ground and the temperature is still freezing the sun in my eyes lifts me up.

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Psychosavant wrote:Those who

Psychosavant wrote:

Those who choose not to exceed their class have, for the most part made their choice. While its true, that unfortunate things can happen to people who could otherwise be successful, I believe people have far more control over their lives then they think. But if a person chooses to remain in the lowest class and doesn't want to sacrifice the time and energy to leave it, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that.

Hell, the lower class has it better than the middle class. I'm not trying to improve my success, I'm quite happy as I am. In our economic system, it's much easier to go from lower class to middle class then it is to get from middle to upper. Hopefully Obama will help to change that, but I'm not counting on a economic climate shift. In truth, I'm happy where I am anyways, and anyone who tells me I didn't put forth effort, make the sacrifices, and have to get over major stumbling blocks to get here, obviously knows nothing about me or what I've done.

The whole you can be born poor and still end up upper class is more myth than reality.  Yes, it does happen occasionally, but most people run into too many institutional road blocks along the way.  And, they're human, which means they do have limits to their capabilities.  Please justify your assertion that the lower class has it better than the middle class.  I've lived both ways and feel very fortunate to currently be middle instead of lower.  Living off of Top Ramen and not knowing if you're going to be able to pay rent next month on crappy shelter even though you are working is not better.

 

 

Zymotic, it's good that you can see through the economic propaganda that gets spread around and assumed to be true in this country.  That's not something a lot of people ever do.  For me, it helps to put it all in perspective.  In the historical context, we're basically all peasants.  My life is so enormously better that that of a Russian serf or English peasant from times past.  And, the rich are not as cruel and powerful as they were then.  Things are better than they used to be.  Just because there are situations that need fixed doesn't mean that you should despair, but see opportunities to find fulfilling issues where you can use your skills to make a contribution to the wider community.  Have you ever read any Howard Zinn?  I find that rereading his books help remind me how far the lower and middle classes have come over the years, even if they don't realize it.  Welcome to adulthood! 

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Zymotic wrote: And to

Zymotic wrote:
 

And to answer your question about the college I will be attending, I am going to Washington University in St. Louis.

Congratulations on that. Do well, get your degree in hand, and you'll be better off than many.

I also had trouble making friends in high school. It wasn't until my junior year or so that I fell in with a group of people who were more like me.

College is much different, though. I really enjoyed college on a social level because the people I became friends with where not necessarily the kind of people I would have gravitated towards otherwise. But because we were all living together in a dorm, we kind of had to get to know each other. And it wound up being a great experience.

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I hope the change of

I hope the change of circumstances will help you. I think it'll do you good to get out of there and into a university setting. Just don't set any expectations and go in with an open mind, and I think you'll do great.

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anniet wrote:Living off of

anniet wrote:

Living off of Top Ramen and not knowing if you're going to be able to pay rent next month on crappy shelter even though you are working is not better.

Think about it this way - at your high school now, you might be the only kid in a few hundred who thinks this way, or has interests in certain areas. But when you go to college, there are thousands of people there. You are bound to run into at least a few like-minded people. And in general, especially since you're going to a school that isn't a party school, the intellectual caliber of everyone there will be much higher than many of the people you've had to deal with until now.

My advice would be to leave your door open whenever possible - when people walk by, they're more likely to come in & say hello, or compliment you on your taste in music, or something. And also, if you get invited to a party or something, just go. Even if you think it's not your scene, you may be surprised at how much you have in common with other people there. (And if you don't like it, you can always just leave.) I have friends that are total WoW-addicts during the week, but then on the weekends they're doing tequila shots with other WoW-addicts. There's someone out there for everyone, and this is true even of friendships.

And with your high school friends, don't worry too much about hanging onto those friendships. If they seem interested in maintaining ties, then great; but if they don't, just let go. Mine is an extreme case, but during the last few months of my high school career I was in eating disorder therapy. My strange behaviors had already alienated everyone I had considered to be my close friends, and we were drifting in different directions anyways. I soon realized there were too many painful memories and emotions contained within my high school environment. For some reason, I felt inferior & vulnerable when I was within those walls & around those people, and the only way to break free of it would be to break free of them. Otherwise, I'd forever feel worthless & be relapsing. So once I graduated, I basically severed ties with everyone I had known. I went on to meet lots of new people in college, and feel there is no negative effect on my social life. I survived, and you will too.

Sometimes I'm a bit jealous that some people I know have such fulfilling friendships back home, while I only have one friend to visit when I go home - my best friend, who did not attend the same high school I did. But I guess the way I see it is, it would have been great if I could have maintained those contacts, but for my own sanity and health, I did what was best for me. Incidentally, the youngest of my siblings is graduating high school in a few months, so I've still had to go back a few times over the years. And whenever I walk into the school building, or run into people from that community, I feel exactly as I did back then - worthless and scared. All the confidence I've built up over the past few years just vanishes. It's unfortunate, but the truth is I'm rarely at home these days anyways. I've been working/studying on campus the past couple summers, so I live at home for a grand total of 4 or 5 weeks out of the year, during winter & spring breaks. I guess what I'm trying to say is that life goes on, and you will too. Whether you are able to keep in touch with your friends or not, things will work out and you'll find new people and new interests. High school is such a brief period in everyone's lives - I'm tired of people defining themselves by that experience. Take what you've learned from the experience, and move beyond it.  


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natural wrote:You're

natural wrote:
You're going to college? Well, problem solved mostly. Are you also moving on campus? That would help a lot.

 

This bears passing note. Hot young babes who want to party like there is no tomorrow and screw like bunnies. You are only going to get one chance at that in life (unless you grow up to be a pervert). It is only going to last for a couple of years. Might as well grab that while you can.

 

Zymotic wrote:
I fucking hate people who go to college so they will make more money instead of wanting the knowledge presented in the classes.

 

OK, my above comment is only a short term goal. This points you towards longer term goals. Do you know what you want to do yet? Even if you think that you have the answer, you can always change stuff around later but even so, having some idea of what you want is not lightly dismissed.

 

If your main goal is learning new things, then perhaps you want to be some type of scientist. They don't tend to get rich like rock stars but the income potential is not bad. You could do that and end up owning your own house.

 

You could do way worse than to take some classes in philosophy. That is as close to pure academics as anything. Even so, if you do end up trading on your education for a living, a minor in philosophy would make you considerably more marketable than someone who followed a similar academic track but never touched the stuff.

 

Past that, read what Greek Goddess has to say. There is lots of good advice there. At your age, you are going to meet a lot of people who are still fairly shallow but those who become your real friends will not remain so. Also, you will have them as at least occasional friends for the rest of your life.

 

As an example, several years ago, I lost my wallet with my entire life in it. I needed my birth certificate to get the rest of the process moving but the state that I was born in has a rule about not giving them out without ID. Well, it could suck to be me in that situation. Or it could fail to suck that my father's dorm mate went on to be one of the Senators from that state. I never asked my father what he was like as a 20 year old but I would imagine that he was pretty typical of young guys in college.

 

Adding to that, what are you going to be bringing to school with you? In keeping with the angle that the friends that you make today are not going to be the erudite sophisticates that they will become, bringing stuff that gets you noticed is not automatically a bad idea.

 

Having the best home entertainment system in the dorm earns you points with shallow people. As does bringing a musical instrument (not an accordion or xylophone though). A good set of tools will go quite a long way towards pranking others. As a long shot guess, do you build your own computers? An Oskar Wu box will score points with the subset of people who are going to be the big wheels in the IT industry.

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greek goddess wrote:And with

greek goddess wrote:

And with your high school friends, don't worry too much about hanging onto those friendships. If they seem interested in maintaining ties, then great; but if they don't, just let go. Mine is an extreme case, but during the last few months of my high school career I was in eating disorder therapy. My strange behaviors had already alienated everyone I had considered to be my close friends, and we were drifting in different directions anyways. I soon realized there were too many painful memories and emotions contained within my high school environment. For some reason, I felt inferior & vulnerable when I was within those walls & around those people, and the only way to break free of it would be to break free of them. Otherwise, I'd forever feel worthless & be relapsing. So once I graduated, I basically severed ties with everyone I had known. I went on to meet lots of new people in college, and feel there is no negative effect on my social life. I survived, and you will too.

This is quite similar to my experience. I dreaded going to HS, and wanted nothing more than for it to be over so I could move the hell away. When I left for university, I felt a huge relief.

However, somewhat ironically, the pattern kept repeating itself. I eventually became estranged from my university friends. Then I finished university, got a job, and made new friends. Then I became estranged from them, got a different job, made new friends, etc. I finally ended up in Prague, made new friends, became estranged from them, made new friends, became estranged from them....

I finally realized that it is not where I go, or who I meet that's the problem. The problem follows me around wherever I go. The problem is inside me.

That's why I emphasized in my post to learn how to be comfortable enjoying yourself on your own. This is more difficult than it sounds, IMO. I didn't realize it while I was doing it, but now I realize that I was looking for other people to 'complete' me. I wasn't comfortable on my own. I was always depressed and feeling empty.

I guess my point is that, while going away to college may work in the short term, it's not the final solution. If your problems are inside you, then you will never really escape them by moving from place to place or by finding new groups of friends. They will always follow you around until you directly confront them and begin to work on your inner mental/emotional health. Anyway, that's what I learned about myself. If it helps someone else, then it was worth expressing it.

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Quote:This is quite similar

Quote:

This is quite similar to my experience. I dreaded going to HS, and wanted nothing more than for it to be over so I could move the hell away. When I left for university, I felt a huge relief.

A lot like me. There seems to be a common thread here: You will like university.

I hated high school. I hated it so much that I started counting down lessons I had remaining in my final year so I could get the hell out and go to university (I'm not American, we don't use the term senior year). I hated the lack of intellectual company to keep, I hated the fact that I had to get up incredibly early in the morning, and most of all, I hated the fact that I had obligations to take ridiculous subjects that I didn't actually care about. But university is different. For one, the people are, in general, smarter, and most importantly, you have significantly more control over what you can do and what courses you take.

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Since we appear to be on the

Since we appear to be on the "kick hs" bandwagon, and I hadn't mentioned it in my earlier post, I hated highschool so much I dropped out all together.

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Sounds like loneliness and

Sounds like loneliness and normal frustration. It's a common side effect of intelligence.

But don't despair! There actually are more interesting, intelligent people than meets the eye. I know it's tough (I've always felt mentally older than & disconnected from people my age), but if you reach out and give people a chance you'll find that it's not all ignorant idiots, even if it feels that way sometimes. Sometimes it's all in how you view yourself (as different, for example) that leads you to think that you can't connect to others. Part of it is that you're on a different "wavelength", but a lot of it is internal negative thoughts about yourself.

You aren't alone. I'd venture that most posters (including myself) here have experienced the same kinds of feelings, thoughts and annoyances. Are there any people in your classes that DO pay attention/discuss? You could try reaching out to them instead of focusing on the morons.

Also, I know it's hard not to, but I wouldn't think too much about what other people do. It drives you crazy, and honestly they're irrelevant to you. Ignoring people is tough but essential for mental survival sometimes.

OH AND --> Washington U is an amazing school, congratulations on getting in! You will definitely find plenty of people more like you there, trust me.

*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*

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You're wrong. College is

You're wrong.

College is different.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Quote:Nobody ever really

Quote:
Nobody ever really moves out of their respective level.

Sure they do, rich people can lose their money through bad stocks or ressession. Poor people can get lucky with an idea, or win the lottery.

BUT, why is there an attitude that your paycheck defines you? I've met rich people whom I wouldn't spit on and poor people with hearts of gold.

I'll be damned if I am going to allow someone to tell me, being poor myself, that I am worthless because I didn't climb the ladder. So the fuck what.

The problem is, as you expressed that the system is built for the rich. That part is true, but that does not mean we have to throw out the free market to fix this problem.

It is a ratio problem, and untill the rich class realizes that they cant keep hording and making the pay gap bigger and bigger, they will always do what they have always done.

My advice to them is that if you don't want government stepping in, then be responsible about what you do, and be introspective about what you have, in terms of knowing the difference between what you want and what you actually need.

I am needed where I work, otherwise I wouldn't have a job. We all play our parts, and all classes are needed.

Any jaded dickhead who thinks they are more important than me, I dare them to do my job as well as I have done it. Don't complain about my dirty fingernails if you arn't willing to get your hands dirty yourself. Quit bitching and be happy that there is someone there who is willing to do the things you don't want to do.

I am not against wealth, I am against self centered jadedness and judment of those who don't have what you have.

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Zymotic wrote:I'm afraid

Zymotic wrote:

I'm afraid that I'll be just as terrible at making friends there as I've always been and I will essentially waste half of college.

I don't know what college is like in the states, but my guess is that it's pretty much the same as in Canada. You're going to get so much ass. Don't worry about it. I suggest going with the brooding, intellectual atheist that comes naturally. You can't even imagine the amount of tail. You have a demographic that's all set to be into you. No shit. Pale chicks in black, preppy girls who want to annoy their parents, party girls who haven't tried out the bookish type. Just do what you do, keep your mind on your homework, and the women will flock. Start trying too hard, and they'll flee.

Unless you're into sporty chicks, in which case you'll probably have to take up running. More tail!

PLUS you'll meet people with brains. Large brains.

Avoid the girlfriend trap like the plague until you're ... oh, say 25. I'm serious about the girlfriend trap - that's dangerous territory. Go for the crazy chicks, because they're the best in bed.

Man. If only I had known that shit at your age.

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anniet wrote:The whole you

anniet wrote:
The whole you can be born poor and still end up upper class is more myth than reality.  Yes, it does happen occasionally, but most people run into too many institutional road blocks along the way. And, they're human, which means they do have limits to their capabilities. 

I don't know if it's more myth than reality, but I'll freely admit that this doesn't happen to most people. I'd say that from what I've seen, most of the bad parts of people's lifestyles could have been circumvented if they'd have acted differently. Just my personal observation.

anniet wrote:
Please justify your assertion that the lower class has it better than the middle class.  I've lived both ways and feel very fortunate to currently be middle instead of lower.  Living off of Top Ramen and not knowing if you're going to be able to pay rent next month on crappy shelter even though you are working is not better. 

I've also lived in both lower and middle, and that's my justification. I grew up in an incredibly poor family, having almost been on the streets several times. Had it not been for the choices my father made along the way, things could have been much better for us.

I've moved out of there due to my efforts, and what I was willing to sacrifice in order to get here. When I said lower has it better than middle, I didn't mean to presume that life is better. I can most assuredly testify that it isn't. What I meant was that it was easier to go from lower to middle, than it is to get from middle to upper. I think both of us, considering our histories, could testify to that. It took hard work for both of us, but for me, I'm happy where I am now, and the amount of extra effort I'd have to make in order to get to upper class isn't acceptible for the benefits to me. So I choose to maintain my position, happy that I've left the lower class as a result of my efforts.


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While I don't know how soon

While I don't know how soon you'll feel better, I do think you'll like Wash U.  Admittedly I'm a bit biased as a student there myself.

It's definitely a lot different from high school, for the better.  No more having to get up at 6:00 AM to be at marching band practice at 6:45 AM, or having to get up at 7:00 for class at 8:00.  Of course, if you LIKE getting up that early, my roommate is on the crew team and he gets up at roughly 5:00 AM for that practice...

You'll be able to take courses you want to take.  Some of the courses, especially the entry level ones, will be large lecture halls, unfortunately.  Still, the worst class I was in was about 250 I believe, and it was General Chemistry 1.  Aka, everyone took it and they had three lectures with 250 students in each.  If you're in Arts and Sciences, you'll have to take Writing 1 either your first or second semester.  It's not as bad as people say, they'll moan and complain about it, but it's not too bad.

You'll be able to get meals fixed for you every day and can eat whatever you'd like, whenever you'd like (well, they're not open from 2 AM to 7 AM I believe, but beyond that...).  The food itself is not the high school crap, it's quite good overall, and in most cases made fresh to order (exceptions would be things like soup for the most part).

You'll be able to find plenty of activities to do.  Among other things, I'm in the Medieval Combat Society.  Think fencing/martial arts sparring with swords and shields.  There's debate, many different sports, and many random different things.  There's even a Calvinball club.

If you felt like you were one of the nerdiest/geekiest kids in high school, you might still feel on the nerdy/geeky side of things.  But that will compose half the school instead of the top 5% of your high school class.  You'll find people to match any interests you have.

Hope you cheer up soon, you have quite a bit to look forward to this fall.

P.S. Glad to hear you're getting out of the bible belt.


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I was like you in High

I was like you in High School. In Sixth Form college (it's like the intermediate stage between High School and University here), I came out of my shell a little bit. But going away to University was the best thing ever. I met a lot of great people over my three years there, and you're lucky that American Universities are four years!! I dunno how it works there, but I'd say the best way to enjoy it is to live on campus in halls (dorms?) for the first year or two, then rent a house somewhere with friends. Also join student societies in your interest areas. You'll meet a lot of great people that way.


aftershock567
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Joined: 2008-12-03
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peppermint wrote:Sounds like

peppermint wrote:

Sounds like loneliness and normal frustration. It's a common side effect of intelligence.

But don't despair! There actually are more interesting, intelligent people than meets the eye. I know it's tough (I've always felt mentally older than & disconnected from people my age), but if you reach out and give people a chance you'll find that it's not all ignorant idiots, even if it feels that way sometimes. Sometimes it's all in how you view yourself (as different, for example) that leads you to think that you can't connect to others. Part of it is that you're on a different "wavelength", but a lot of it is internal negative thoughts about yourself.

You aren't alone. I'd venture that most posters (including myself) here have experienced the same kinds of feelings, thoughts and annoyances. Are there any people in your classes that DO pay attention/discuss? You could try reaching out to them instead of focusing on the morons.

Also, I know it's hard not to, but I wouldn't think too much about what other people do. It drives you crazy, and honestly they're irrelevant to you. Ignoring people is tough but essential for mental survival sometimes.

OH AND --> Washington U is an amazing school, congratulations on getting in! You will definitely find plenty of people more like you there, trust me.

I agree with peppermint. Many very smart people I know suffer from a good deal of frustration or depression. Do well in college and you will make more friends your first year than you need. The whole highschool populatiry contest really got turned upside down in college...at least it did for me : )

Chris