Another Introduction (:
Posted on: February 25, 2009 - 5:05am
Another Introduction (:
Final Fantasy wrote:
Hi, I'm Final Fantasy. I'm 18 years old, 19 this May. Born in the UK. Will be heading off to university this year to study Computer Science.
I was born a Muslim, pretty much all my family follow Islam. I won't go into much detail about my Muslim childhood (unless someone really wants to know), it is both depressing and voilent and something I will never be able to forget.
I guess I first started having doubts about Islam around the age of 16, when I used to think to myself "If only this wasn't real, why does it have to be real, DAMMIT, of all religions why, why is he [god] so fucking cruel, why can't I just live how I want?! I'd kill myself but then I'd go to hell!"
If you're confused about the above, I came across the works of Ahmed Dedat and Zakir Naik, on Islamic Science, miracles etc. I was deluded, convinced, which led me to the thoughts above. Not too long after, I was googling Islamic Science, and came across FaithFreedom. What I found, changed me completely. I couldn't believe it, I didn't want to believe it, I was scared. I found every rebuttal to Islam, to it's so called miracles and science, to all the scholars including Zakir Naik, the Quran and Hadiths disected and it's true nature shown. I quickly left FaithFreedom after that, and told a Muslim friend about it who managed to convince me to stay away from it (I was very vulnerable at that time). But then, after a while, my curiosity got the best of me. I went back to FaithFreedom, I read and read and checked, I posted, I asked, I read, I checked again. I turned into an agnostic, I wasn't sure anymore. I then turned into a Deist. Also, it's only since last year that I finally realised there is nothing wrong with homosexuals. I was raised up to believe gay is a disease and a sin and they should all be killed (I even supported it), I don't if you can blame for thinking this way, this is what I was always taught by my family and the mosque which I had to attend daily.
I did something stupid however, at FaithFreedom, I had registered under my real name. Which is a unique name, most Muslim families in the city I live, know us, and my name is known. A simple google search would have exposed me to my new beliefs. So, I received permission to register under a new username and the old one would be deleted. Then I did another stupid thing, I confronted my parents about Islam and it hadn't worked out as I planned. I had to quickly change it and persuade them I'm still a Muslim and that I was just being a bit curious. I don't know if anyone can understand the position I was in, it is extremely difficult to leave Islam openly, especially in a voilent home.
I would like to thank this person, who took the time to help me after the problem with my parents:Quote:You can't convince them. They are not able to accept that you rejected their religion on evidences, because if they were to accept that, then that means that their religion CAN be rejected by an intelligent person on the basis of evidence. They can't allow themselves to believe that because they need their religion to be true. They need to believe that there is substantial evidence for their religion.
Their world would fall apart if they realized it wasn't as they think it is. Too much is at stake for them. It is very very hard to lay your religious beliefs on the line, TRULY look at them from a critical distance, because you have so much tied up with that religion. It gives you emotional support, it forms your entire worldview, it is part of your self-identity and it is the most important element of your life. It is frightening to even consider that it may be false. So people are not able to see the evidence you put before them, because they are not looking at it objectively at all.
You can only have any effect with your evidences on those who are truly willing to look at them with true objectivity. But that person is rare. They are out there, obviously you were able to do it. So you can only do so much in convincing people.
So now? After more reading, spending more time learning and asking; I'm atheist. Also thanks to The God Delusion which helped a lot. For now, I must remain a Muslim in real life. I would also like to see a psychologist/psychiatrist (which I can't because of my parents), because I get depressed a lot, I don't know any other atheists, everyone thinks I'm a Muslim, most people assume I'm a Muslim just by looking at me (I'm not white, Paki origin and in the UK most paki's are Muslims). The things I'd like to do, I can't because my dad would ask too many questions, I don't know what to do as of yet, I also keep thinking of the past and how it's fucked up everything which only adds to the depression. I get extremely uncomfortable around people who follow a religion. After browsing and debating through the university forums, I'm afraid when I attend this year it's going to be the same, that the majority of them fundies and only a handful are atheists.
Apologies for the long emo introduction, it's one of the reasons I kept it late, I was considering not posting this at all. So please don't be too harsh
Final Fantasy wrote:
Oh and more about my background regarding education: I love computers Web designing and networks I'm CCNA certified, and will most probably go on to CCNP. I'm most familiar with HTML/PHP/SQL and networks, started basic programming from Pascal, to Visual Basic, and now C. I prefer Linux over Windows, currently using Xubuntu :mrgreen:
It doesn't stop there of course
From RichardDawkins.net.
- Login to post comments
There's no need to apologize. That was a great introduction.
Welcome to Rational Responders.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Welcome to the boards!
M
Welcome to the RRS
It does suck to not be able to tell your family how you really feel about religion and theology in general. I am in a different, yet similar boat. My father used to be violent, but he has, for the most part, turned away from it, so that is where our stories diverge; however, he has already suffered two heart attacks, and he would almost certainly die if I expressed my honest thought. When he watches television and brings his rants about how atheists are evil, that America should either kill or convert the Muslims to Christianity, and nigger this and nigger that, faggot this and faggot that, I just want to scream at him, but I don't want to shorten his life, so I bite my tongue. It's incredibly frustrating.
Stultior stulto fuisti, qui tabellis crederes!
A very warm welcome to you! Don't worry, your intro was far from emo or boring. I found it quite moving and inspiring. Muslim apostates are quite rare around these parts so it's nice to see you here.
I can only offer my sympathies for you situation. Many here including myself received religious education and have been or are in the closet. Your case sounds particulary bad..your desire to seek professional help is good, I think you will find even if you can not get that merely interacting with other atheists can help alleviate the depression and anger you experience.( Which by the way is something most apostates go through) There are many here always willing to help.
I hope you will enjoy it here I'm sure others will be able to give more advice and experiences. Doing what you did is admirable.. don't let the world get you down
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.
Hi Final Fantasy and welcome to the forums.
Enjoy the community here and my hope is that you find groups of like-minded individuals when you head to University too!
Jump right into the forums and have fun.
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
Thanks everyone! For the warm welcome
I just got back from school and I'm pissed off, we have this subject which is compulsory in the UK called General Studies. Our deputy headteacher (called vice principal in America I think) is the one who teaches this subject, every fortnight wednesday. He talks about the same shit all the time i.e. Christianity, relating bullshit articles and applying it to Christianity. He also talked about crap such as lots of evidence e.g carbon dating, historical records etc. something that really got me pissed off. Especially when he resorted to the watch maker argument (talked about scientist william payley about how a watch has a creator etc.), I responded telling him that that argument is illogical because it implies that everything requires a creator, but fails when asked who created God. And You know how he responded? "Well you can't answer that, God doesn't have a creator or he wouldn't be God now would he?"
Ignorant fucking prick!
I'm not good at debating in real life, that I admit, I easily get put off by red herrings or whatever. I'm so used to debating in writing on the internet and it's easier to pick out the flaws in fundie arguments. The other thing is that he thinks I'm a Muslim so it's even fucking harder, I can't tell him I'm not.
EDIT: I'm curious to know whether this forum was custom made/scripted? Could someone please clarify?
Wtf? Since when does science INSTRUCT people to USE nukes.
I've heard arguments like these before, but Stalin did NOT kill because of his atheism.
Awesome post man. As my avatar shows, I too am a Final Fantasy fan. Welcome to the site, and try not to let the delusional folk annoy you too much!
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
You really DO like computers, webdesign and networking! I dont know how to answer your question though.
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
All you have to say is:
"Your argument is that God doesn't need a creator because he's God and, not only that, we can't know why. Fine, but why can't the same argument apply to the Big Bang? The Big Bang created the Universe and we can't answer what came before it so let that be the uncaused cause. Why does God get special protection from the chain of causality that other theories don't? If the answer is 'because he's God' then we move away from the realm of logic and the argument has become about the need to put a creator there because you want one, not because it's logically apparent".
Where in the UK are you? sorry if I've missed it somewhere.
m
Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here
- Lawrence Krauss
Thanks
I'm from Sout-east Wales, almost bordering England.
A big welcome to you, Final Fantasy. Great user name, by the way. There's a neat double meaning to it, aside from the game reference. You've given up your final fantasy!
It may be hard to see this right now, because you are dependent on your parents/family, but you have your own life, your own destiny of your own choosing, and you do not have to suffer under your parents forever.
Finish college, get a job as soon as you can to support yourself financially, and move out of your parents' house. Establish your own life away from them and independent from them. This will be a huge mental relief for you. It seems you are a bright person and can probably get a job in software/computers no problem. When you are able to do it, move out as soon as you can.
I think that once you separate your life from your parents and your violent childhood history, you will be able to see things in a different perspective. There is a tendency for people who have been abused by violence in their childhood to see it as somehow 'normal', or at least 'inescapable'. By separating yourself, you'll be able to break that illusion and you will feel less powerless.
At that point, you may even be able to 'come out' to your close friends and other acquaintances, so you will not have to pretend to be Muslim all the time. Your parents will no longer have control over you.
Good luck, and welcome again!
Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!
Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!
It only takes patience and practice. Instead of jumping directly into confrontational arguments about religion, try having more conversational discussions first, with friends rather than antagonists such as this teacher. Then you'll be able to slip in a couple arguments here and there and get some practice at defending your points and responding to theirs.
Also, we tend to have quite solid debates/discussions here, even among us atheists, so this might also be a good place to practice, even if it's still in writing over the internet.
Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!
Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!
First, welcome aboard, it's nice to have you here. The site is a tweaked and custom version of a open source site program. For security purposes I'd rather leave it at that.
Were you having any problems using the site?
Vote for Democrats to save us all from the anti-American Republican party!
Please become a Patron of Brian Sapient
A welshman? Nice There are a couple of UK bodies floating around the site. I'm from Scotland and I believe we have a couple of Englishmen. Not too sure about the Irish...
M
Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here
- Lawrence Krauss