Question for Nikolaj or other Denmark citizen
Offline http://mises.org/story/1274
I got into a discussion on global transformation and I admire the achievements of northern countries, like Denmark, Sweden or Norwegia. I know that some RRS guest also likes them, I've heard that in one of the shows. (you know, high living standards, almost no need for police, low theism) However, one of the opponents in discussion gave me this link, which depicts this country far from the ideal. What I'd like to know, according to your knowledge, how much these statistics are real, incorrectly interpreted, or just made up.
For example this is quite a brave assertion:
If we next look at the crime level, the Danish Statistical Yearbook 2002 shows reported crimes from 1935 to 1960 to be stable: about 100,000 crimes per year. But from 1960 until today, the number of crime reports has increased by 500 percent, to more than 500,000 per year. And if we look at violent crime, the picture is even grimmer. The number of violent crimes in 1960 was approximately 2,000; it is approximately 15,000 today. This is an increase of more than 700 percent, and it is still rising steeply.
Honestly said, WTF? Is Denmark today really like Chicago in the times of Al Capone? Citizens should know, this is why I'm asking.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
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In this article Denmark citing data from Interpol [see "Trends in crime"]
So it's close to America's apparenty.
It's that Viking blood. They're dangerous people.
You know it's called Norway, right?
I can't speak for Denmark, but Norway is experiencing something similar. I remember 20 years ago when crime rates were exceptionally low. But what's happened in the last 10 years especially is a tremendous amount of immigration into the country - mostly from Third World nations. I'm not saying that all crimes are being committed by these immigrants, but they are the source for a lot of the violent crime in the larger cities. I'm not sure if any statistics are available yet that detail crime by ethnicity. The Scandinavian countries were extremely liberal in their immigration policies for a long time, but that's starting to change:
http://www.norway.org.sy/visas/impinfo/Tightening+of+the+immigration+policy.htm
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
Hvordan går det, Geir?
I think you're right to single out the immigrant community as a source of much of the rise in crime in Norway, but that is a simplistic approach which fails to answer some other trends towards criminality which are evident here too. A Dagbladet breakdown of murders, for example, over the last three years revealed the bulk of them committed by white native Norwegians. When you throw in other crimes like embezzlement, theft etc, then the Norwegians are more than holding their own as perpetrators without any statistical help from immigrants at all.
Also, as an "immigrant" myself in Norway I am perhaps more sensitive to the view that Norwegians themselves must take a lot of responsibility for the woeful lack of integration which exacerbates crime through increasing perceptions of alienisation and communal rejection repeatedly reported from the asian and african immigrants. Neither side shoud be made to shoulder all the blame or responsibility for fixing this deplorable situation, but nor should either side try to cop out by saying it's all the other's fault.
Personally I think Norway behaved irresponsibly when it embarked on encouraging immigration from Pakistan and has compounded its own problems with its subsequent handling of immigration from Somalia and elsewhere. The reasons might have been valid economically and even well-intentioned on social grounds, but that Norwegians as people weren't equipped to cope with the full implications of the policy has been obvious for a very long time. I agree with those who say the door should be closed to further immigration on that scale, but only if at the same time something concrete is done to address the long overdue problems which exist. It is the lack of willingness to even discuss the latter (except in often racist and irresponsible terms - check Siv Jensen's recent "ghetto" speech) and the need for groups such as SOS-Rasisme to resort to protest marches in order to highlight fundamental problems long ago addressed in other countries (such as overt police racism) which worries me.
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
Let's also keep in mind that some countries play games with statistics to make crime look more or less common. For instance, England now only counts a murder as having occured after someone is convicted for it. That makes all unsolved murders not count in British crime statistics; which allows their politicians to tell everyone that they are being kept safe. Politicians love tweaking definitions this way to make something look more or less common. It is not unoften that I hear someone comparing US crime statistics to British crime statistics and not understand that two entirely different standards are being applied. So in matters such as these, I'm automatically sceptical of all crime related statistics. On the other hand, in this case it seems that there really is a crime problem. I doubt politicians could redefine crime to the point that it increases 500%.
But for that matter, hasn't there been a general increase in crime in most of Europe and England for a while now? Maybe Denmark is just following that trend worse than everyone else. That and the culture shock of new immigrants probably doesn't help. In my part of the US, almost all violent crime and almost all property crime is performed by Mexicans and the first generation American children of Mexicans. Immigrants tend to be much poorer than everyone else and they tend to turn to crime for money.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
Det går...når blir det fredag?
You're right about that. I'm sure crime would have increased anyway with zero immigration. But there is a certain amount that correlates with the increase in immigration.
The Norwegian government certainly botched immigration as a whole. For a country whose population was 98%+ native-born for ages, throwing the doors open to people from poor and war-torn countries with almost no controls in place was irresponsible, though well-meaning. Even the United States, which is a nation of immigrants, can't seem to get it right.
Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.
Why Believe?
Successive governments have certainly got it wrong. But you can't just blame the government. My experience of Norwegians in general are they are not as suited temperamentally to hosting foreign cultures within their own as they often like to think, and nor are they willing to listen to criticism from "outsiders", even when it comes from qualified sources. The solution will require a lot more intelligence and co-ordination on the part of the state bodies whose shared responsibility it is, but it will also take a lot more soul-searching on the part of every Norwegian than presently pertains.
Problemet med fredag er at den egentlig aldri kommer - så snart du klarer å rekke fredagskveld er det plutselig en hel uke til den kommer på nytt! Nå DET er noe regjeringen bør fikse!
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy