How many times has the Christian bible been changed?
Posted on: March 5, 2009 - 11:09pm
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How many times has the Christian bible been changed?
I have been doing research and I find it hard to get some good unbiased information. I am trying to find out how many times the christian bible as we know it today has undergone major changes. I also want to know how many books have been omitted from it and what has been added since it was originally written. All the information I come across is bias one way or the other. I just want facts not opinions. If anyone has good unbiased information on this, or some good links I would appreciate it.
tenbears.
"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4
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That should be sufficient for you. You've done your village idiot act here for months.
You in your denial are unable to consider such simple things as shared cultural heritage. Religion was a sufficient criterion which reflected that shared cultural heritage, but over the last 100 or so years, a new notion has emerged with the secularization of society -- umm, the secularization of some of the Jewish society. Only problem is your denial and commitments make you refuse the obvious. That the religion is no longer a sufficient criterion to be Jewish. Over the centuries there were other things such as reliance within Jewish communities of other members of that community against the persecutions from without. Shared social structures of law, marriage, ritual. The discussion about the child of a Jewish mother fits here. Shared literature and professions. Over the centuries the Jews were excluded from various professions leaving only certain ones available, such as work in metals (hence jewelry) work with money, and finance. Just consider the Merchant of Venice or the Jew of Malta. These literary works identify Jews as separate from the societies they live in, though they don't really go into why. (Social exclusion has been part of the shared cultural experience.)
You have been running around showing us that your head is too deeply anally inserted to seriously contemplate what you are supposed to be analyzing.
You see brown. It's the effect of the bilirubin.
Why ignore one of the words I said. I told you "shared cultural heritage". That does not imply a single mono-colored culture. I hope I clarified your error earlier in this message. If not, read it again.
It's a bit like the English language. Comprehensibility is not a sufficient criterion to say what is English and what is not. A Scot speaking English may easily be totally unintelligible to a native Hindi speaker of English. You of course in your state of denial would say that it's not English, but which one the Scot or the Indian? You cannot let your limited perception of the facts be a sufficient criterion for your analysis.
You are not in a position to set IQ tests. You have shown that you have no objectivity. You don't understand simple facts. In fact you deny them.
Are you not an English speaker because you speak with a Brooklyn accent?
Would you agree that only catholics are christians? Or that only speakers of English with a Harvard accent are native speakers?
You are in no position to exclude someone from a social organization that you are not a part of.
That you really haven't got a clue what you are trying to talk about.
See what I mean? When Jews say that they are atheists, who are you to disagree? Doh!
Read my lips, Matty boy. Shared... cultural... heritage... Got that? A cultural continuum where not all pockets of the culture are the same doesn't nullify that cultural heritage. Just as not all forms of English are the same, but are still English.
Why don't you do your own homework, rather than relying on the work of others which you will only deny? Go and live with a Jewish community and find out about shared cultural heritage.
If you were a native English speaker, you would know that "criteria" is plural (of "criterion" ) and therefore cannot take an indefinite article. Obviously you aren't a native English speaker, right?
There are only so many ways to tell a person about reality. When they still refuse to see, they must be reality impaired.
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
Who said anything about a single Jewish culture. There isn't a single 'Black' culture either. So what? The culture(s) still exist.
Now you're contradicting yourself: There's no single culture, therefore what unifies them all is an aspect of culture. Either there's a unified culture or there isn't. Make up your mind.
An individual person's culture is based on what they believe about themselves, not what others believe about them. An atheist who believes he's a Jew is a cultural Jew. A Hasidic Jew who believes he's a Jew is a cultural Jew. Whether the Hasidic believes the atheist is not a Jew is irrelevant *to the atheist Jew*. A person's culture is their self-identification. It is based on beliefs and affects their behaviours.
There may be 100,000 different Jewish cultures, and it would not matter one bit. All the individuals involved believe they are Jewish. That's all that matters.
There are people in America who routinely call other Americans 'unAmerican' or 'not true Americans', or what have you. This is irrelevant to the person they are talking about.
There are even thousands of people around the world who are no longer legally American, who still consider themselves American, although they no longer live in America.
Likewise, there are thousands of people around the world who *are* legally American, who no longer consider themselves American, having adopted their new home country as ex-patriots.
An individual person's culture is their self-identification. It is not one person labelling another; it is *that* person labelling *themselves*.
I'm afraid your opinion on someone else's culture is irrelevant to their *actual* culture.
I think that you're not really an Anglophone. You don't really speak English. You don't really believe that Jewishness is tied to religion. You aren't really a member of your self-proclaimed culture, whatever that might be.
See? My opinion has no effect on your *actual* culture.
It is the *only* rational criterion for an individual's personal culture. And it must be based on belief, not merely spoken words. If the Pope really does believe he's a Jew, then he's a cultural Jew. Good luck finding a Pope that actually believes this, but that's how it would work.
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this thread went downhill fast.
You should read more of what I write. I regularly point out it represents the first unambiguous statement of monotheism. I have also pointed it is Judaism Lite while being closer to it than Christianity is to Judaism. I have noted the Koran is the only mention of jewish kings on the east coast of the Red Sea. I also pointed out the first copy of the Koran outside of his family compound in Mecca appeared a century after his death so is does not have the claims of immediacy and authenticity his followers like to claim.
Also if you look back in what I have written you will find a particular thread which I believe I titled Strike the Root. In that I made the point both Christianity and Islam are crucially dependent upon factual nature of the OT. And because of that the most bang for the buck is in tearing down Judaism as in doing so two religions with 2.6B of so followers collapse. Oddly some so called atheists here seem to think Judaism, the most primitive of the three, should get some kind of kid glove treatment. I guess that is really not odd because they are really not athests but Jews.
What kind of paranoid 9/11 insinuation are you trying to make?
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Iranian Jews and New York Jews do not share the same culture. Therefore no culture unites Jews. It is only the religion.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
I said the only thing which unites Jews is the religion. The response was that jewish culture unites Jews.
Now I am being told that there are many different jewish cultures.
They are different cultures. Therefore they are not shared by all Jews. Therefore these cultures do not unite Jews.
Again, only religion unites Jews.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
A_Nony_Mouse doesn't care what the venue is for opportunities to express his anti-Semitism.
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
I gave you the analogy of Scottish English versus English spoken in India -- both English but mutually unintelligible --, so that you wouldn't waste your effort. And I specifically said "cultural heritage". Note there are two words there. If you cannot see the right one because of some brain dysfunction, I'll reverse them: heritage of culture, examples of which I have already supplied, but you refused to acknowledge them, so I figure your brain blanked them out. If you are dumb enough to try a repeat, just realize that I will call you on your idiocy. If you can't get over it and deal with the notion of shared cultural heritage, then it seems I have failed to get you to withdraw your head long enough for you to see light.
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
All Jews share a Jewish culture therefore all Jews have forelocks.
Never met a Jew myself.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
What one finds amusing is challenging any idiot thing Jews have decided is true is declared antisemitism.
Did you miss when I pointed out Freud was a con artist and crook for the very reason his methods and prositions were bullshit and he never cured anyone? You fake Jews claim it is antisemitic to point out Freud was a fraud for claiming dreams could be analyzed.
Your problem is you want to be part of the never touch a woman, forelock wearing Jewish culture while being an atheist.
Quite the opposite of Churchill's observation of English separating Britains and Americans you would have Jews united by unrelated cultures.
And all of this just because you want to preserve your childhood fantasy of a single jewish "people" who, because of you atheists, are united by nothing.
Reviewing the characteristics of the people who claim to be Jews we find they do not share a culture nor a religion nor even customs stemming from religion.
We do not even find Jews sharing a herd mentality by accepting self-declaration. Orthodox Jews do not consider even the Reform to be Jews much less atheists. So Jews are not even united by whom they consider to be Jews. They are not even united by a common delusion.
You are a very malignant person. Were this a question on an IQ test there would be no question that all Jews share nothing. If it is a matter of the most common attribute it has to be the religion. A square labeled a circle is not a circle. It is a mislabeled square. Self declaration as a Jew is rejected as mislabeling.
Hiding your fake claim to being a Jew behind accusations of antisemitism is atrocious behavior. It is a total disregard for civility and common discourse. It is what we have come to expect from zionist animals.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Predicted. There need be no response to this. It doesn't deal with the issues under discussion.
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
The nonsense response you have introduced is that there is a common Jewish culture. I described a Jewish culture which has the forelocks and said I have never met one.
Good sir, you are a coward. You are eternally fearful of something in your inability to renounce your religious affiliation and instead embrace primitive Germanic culture with its gutter German Yiddish as defining being a Jew.
Lots of newbie atheists are like you. You have given up a little bit but going all the way is too much. So you choose to cling to the zionist invention of a jewish "people" and thus hang your personal identity upon a political movement. No blame. In the good old days in the US there were plenty of people who identified themselves by their political party. You are no different.
What I find so difficult to understand about people like you is you have no personal identity but have to identify with a larger group simply to have any sense of self worth at all. If you could not hang onto your mystical jewish "people" you would be adrift in the world, all alone. While I find that the greatest release of all you find it frightening. There is no you outside of a "jewish" identity even though it is only the imaginary Hollywood stereotype Jew and not a single real Jew.
You are nothing without the Hollywood invention.
When you look in the mirror in the morning you have to see a Jew staring back at you else you are nothing. Your entire self worth is measured in terms of being a Jew. You have no self worth. It is only your value to the tribe that you see. You do not see yourself as a person. You see yourself as a member of a group you call Jews. If you are not a Jew you cannot find any value in your existence.
Self worth is the most important thing a person has but you have none. Your only view of your worth in your own eyes is as a Jew. I do not understand this. I cannot comprehend what it is like for you to only view yourself as a member of a group. If I were trying to be obnoxious I might say I pity you but frankly you are so far beneath me I can not work up the interest to care about you.
If you do not have being a jew you have nothing. It is the only thing you have. But I cannot pity you as I truly do not understand.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
And how many theists here can understand this one? LOL I like , I LIKE!!
I think this book changes every time someone get a fart cross. Just how many psychos authored different parts of this book?
A_Nony, I'm about as white as you can get. Absolutely zero imagined or real "Jewish" background in my family.
I find it interesting you seem to be arguing that the people disagreeing with you are doing so because they want to consider themselves Jews.
This is a hysterical example of deceit, perhaps self-deceit. This user has started very many threads specifically targeting the Jews and making nasty preposterous statement after nasty preposterous statement and then with crocodile sentiment plays innocent with the above statement.
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
The main reason why you don't understand much in this world is because of the location of your head. It's too busy with your own bilirubin to be able to see very much of the world.
You have an arbitrary criterion for being Jewish. It has nothing to do with people who are really Jews. As a quantitative criterion it might have been accurate until the mid 19th century, when Jews in various countries started losing their adherence to the religion. As a qualitative criterion, your claim is simply wrong, as all those self-professing secular Jews have shown.
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
Man this train is soooo de-railed, I don't think we can get it back on track.
Please explain how being caucasian constitutes a prover for not having a "jewish" background. Almost all people who really are or who claim to be Jews are caucasians.
And that is one of the more recent jewish fantasies, that Jews are not "white" which has no meaning. Or are you thinking of that "darkie" Sarah Michelle Geller? But by god talk Muslim and Israel and they are the first to bring up skin color. If that is not enough there is no secret as to which actors and entertainers are Jewish. Name those who are both Jewish and not Caucasian. Sammy Davis Jr. is dead so you can't count him.
Please explain their devotion to patently false nonsense statements which they cannot support in any way. Where did you get a difference between "white" and Jew? That is patent nonsense. Claiming there is a single Jewish culture is nonsense as it is obvious by inspection there are Jews from several unrelated cultures primarily Arabic and Eastern Europe. Now if they want to claim to be New York Jews that might be modestly reasonable save that there as many different jewish cultures in New York as there are in Israel.
If a person wants to consider himself Napolean fine with me but don't tell me I have to humor him or her because not doing so might hurt his or her feelings. Self-declaration is a pile of crap. It only reminds of a Steve Martin in The Jerk declaring himself a nigger. Self declaration is funny!
I have paid attention to these self-declarations over the years. From them I could reasonably conclude Jews are connected by mass hysteria in the form of mass delusions. It may be real as a consequence of inbreeding of a group kept together by paranoia. However I am not aware of a genetic basis for paranoia so that remains speculation.
So are you saying I should be nice and humor them? I certainly am not stupid enough to believe them.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
If you go back to the first three or four responses they did cover the broad areas of the changes. Perhaps there is nothing more which can be said as there is no way to count the changes as they are like tree branches rather than straight line changes. That is perhaps as far as it can go on track.
It can never be on track as long as there is an insistence upon a belief that is not supported by the physical evidence.
I have no interest in supporting the idea there was something ineffable about the Judeans even though there is no physical evidence of anyone but Palestinians in Palestine before Roman times. I do mean ineffable as no one has been able to explain exactly what they want it to mean. And on top of that this ineffable nature of these Judeans which is not in evidence has some bearing upon the OT part of the bible.
Judea is the only thing we know about in real history. It was ruled. In those days being ruled was not a matter of the choice of the ruled. We know nothing about what the Judeans thought of it. Yet the believers want to believe and have others believe the "Judeans" were a "people" based upon nothing but their wishful thinking. And if you don't believe that about Judeans without evidence you are antisemitic.
They are trying to create facts by declaration. That is no different from claiming divine inspiration.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Judaism is fair game for any atheist. It is no different from any other religion.
Targeting the religion is not targeting the members any more than it is for any other religion.
I am the only one saying atheists are not Jews and therefore not responsible for Judaism.
If fools wish to indulge in fantasy that is there problem.
If consider them a joke.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
You are invited ONE MORE TIME to present a single criterion for being a Jew which passes the giggle test. You have failed in claiming a single culture. You deny it is religion.
It seems to me the first test of the connecting factor between all Jews is that all Jews accept that factor.
If you reject that test then you have nothing but self declaration. And that means I am correct.
There is NOTHING which connects all people who say they are Jews which is accepted by all Jews.
But if you think there is please tell us all about it.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
You are still working under the false assumption that Judaism is the same as being Jewish. Secular Jews tell you you are simply wrong and you are in no position to dictate to them. As you are attacking Jews, making accusations you are too ignorant to meaningfully make, the result is a form of anti-Semitism.
And yes, Judaism is fair game.
Do you expect displaying your refractory ignorance will change anything?
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
"[G]iggle test" is an appropriate name for your nonsense.
So because catholics don't necessarily accept protestants and vice versa then there is no christian religion. Poof.
You are in no position to make prescriptive rules.
They all come from families which claim to belong to a Jewish cultural tradition.
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
Lmfao.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Jews from Egypt, Palestine, Syria, in fact from Morocco to Iraq to Arabia say they come from an Arabic culture. They go further to say they are Jewish Arabs. Those from Turkey say they come from Turkish culture. Those from Greece quite proudly say they are from the Greek culture which they regard as vastly superior to the German/Polish culture of Ashkenazi Jews. They do not represent they come from any "jewish" culture. You would also know if you read Israeli newspapers Jews from those countries do not recognize anything but Jews according to the Torah as Jews.
Your idea of self declaration is not supported by all Jews nor do they identify any "jewish" culture to which they belong. Again reading Israeli newspapers helps.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Cultural heritage? Cultural groupings? Whites, blacks, latinos, jews, asians, etc. People tend to identify with a culture or sub-culture due to heritage. Yeah, there's no actual white race, or black race, or whatever. We know. We're talking about self-identification in terms of culture.
If a guy said he was black, would you laugh in his face and point out that we're all human and there is no actual black race? When people say they're a Jew, they seem a culture in that same sense.
P.S. I know there's no single "black culture" either.
When your question continues to contain the same erroneous presupposition, it invalidates itself.
If the idea of cultural heritage doesn't penetrate your skull, it's your comprehension issues.
Too much escapes you. The fancy name is "analogy". You're bent over backwards in denial that Jews can be Jews because of a shared cultural heritage -- note once again because of your short term memory deficiency, not shared culture but shared cultural heritage, one that involved a common religion (though many Jews have become secular), common close-knit social responsibilities which involve marriage, coming of age, cultic calendar. These things no longer need the religion but reflect that shared cultural heritage. Deny it all. You're apparently in no position to say anything meaningful on the subject.
That's about as meaningful as you telling your parents not to have sex before you were born. There are just some things that are irreconcilably out of your hands. Sure you can make up silly rules, but that's all they are if they don't take into consideration the real world.
I suggest you read a few more Israeli newspapers, as a penance. Joe McCarthy is dead. He was in no position to say what was and what was not American. He just thought he could foist his ignorance over everyone. So Jews disagree with Jews. It's not like conflicts over self-definition are anything new. That's just like 4th century christianity.
spin
Trust the evidence, Luke
If you're going to seriously tell me you didn't find that the least bit amusing, I'm going to have to hit you.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Or at least slap the return key real hard. I wasn't sure which way the laughter was directed so I covered the bet. They are funny as hell.
Torturing reason until it confesses to what they want to be true. It's a jewish thing. Long time ago I came across of Jew summarizing all the failed attempts at finding a way to define their holy holocaust as unique. It was one contra-factual attempt after another. A thing presented by one Jew as shot down by another Jew and a third Jew would come back with something equally nonsensical on its face and the cycle repeated. The author claimed it had been going on since the 1940s. It still goes on today. Yet at all times down to this day it is unique because only an antisemite would say it is not even if there is no way to define its uniqueness.
Of course there is a trick to the definition of uniqueness. It may not include 'because it happened to Jews' else gypsies, homosexual, freemasons, Slavs could make the same claim.
The same thing has been going on with these atheists. There is a religious basis for their position. A Jew who declares as an atheist is still considered a Jew by Jewish religious law. To cease being an halakic Jew they have to convert to another religion. They may become "nonobservant" but they do not become a non-Jew by Jewish law.
Here the trick is to the definition of being a Jew. It must be claimed without invoking Jewish law. It is as impossible as with the defintion of uniqueness without saying because it happened to Jews.
When I first mentioned this months ago I said clearly an atheist cannot accept Jewish law as the basis for being a Jew. I raised the Catch-22 ab initio.
They are so desperate to believe.
It is as funny as it is pathetic.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Actually there are seven recognized Negroid races in Africa. There several other races among them Caucasoid which includes the vast majority of Jews.
The problem is rather different. There is no way to become a Jew and remain a Jew except by Mosaic law which is religious law. For a man that is having a Jewish mother [or father in some schisms] circumcision, Bar Mitzvah, Mikvah and leading a Jewish life. The schisms in Judaism let most any variation fall under a Jewish life and well as permitting either mother or father but for the others it is not best two out of three. But the question comes down to what makes you think you were Jewish in the first place?
If the answer is because of Mosaic law fine. An atheist does not take Mosaic law any more seriously than baptism or the Shahada. An atheist might answer, When I believed in Mosaic Law I considered myself a Jew but I got better. They might even describe themselves as recovering Jews. Once atheism strikes Jewish law is rejected as quickly as Christian law and the three central requirements have no more meaning than baptism to an ex-Christian.
And as there are many Black cultures including a few more or less pure ones in Africa there are of course many cultures which can be described as jewish. While one can not cease being Black one can cease being a Jew just as one can cease being a Christian. Ex-Christians do not claim to be atheist Christians for good reason. It is an oxymoron the same as it is an oxymorom to claim atheist Jew.
You can search back of few months and find my posts on "The Invention of the Jewish People" by an Israeli Jew. While I have known of this for years he, as an historian, documented the invention as being by the Zionist movement in the early 20th c. The invention of a political movement is to be taken seriously? That is right out of 1984.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
I have never come across any contradition to what I posted. There is no reason to read any more but I will continue to do so. Should there ever be a contradiction to what I have posted I will present it here.
In the mean time, that is what they say, period. They are Jews who do not agree with your fantasies on the subject. If it is simply a matter of opinion then the opinion you have expressed is limited mainly to atheists as the observant have no need to go further than being observant.
It is only atheists who have to find a reason to believe what they no longer believe they ever were.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml