Police: Ill. pastor deflected gunshot with bible

Subdi Visions
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Police: Ill. pastor deflected gunshot with bible

Pastor deflected gunshot with bible

 

When I read the headline I started to get a touch pissed that some bonehead would print shite like this then I read further and felt a little bad because I don't feel very bad that there is one less theist to spread the great lie...

 

 

 

 

MARYVILLE, Ill. – A pastor shot and killed during his Sunday sermon deflected the first of the gunman's four rounds with a Bible, sending a confetti-like spray of paper into the air in a horrifying scene that congregants initially thought was a skit, police said.

The gunman strode down the aisle of the sprawling First Baptist Church shortly after 8 a.m. and briefly spoke with The Rev. Fred Winters, then pulled out a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol and began firing until it jammed, Illinois State Police Director Larry Trent said. Churchgoers wrestled the gunman to the ground as he waved a knife, slashing himself and two other people, Trent said.

None of the about 150 congregants seemed to recognize the gunman and investigators do not know details of Winters' conversation with him, but they planned to review an audio recording of the service, Trent said. The service was not videotaped.

"We thought it was part of a drama skit ... when he shot, what you saw was confetti," said congregant Linda Cunningham, whose husband is a minister of adult education at the church. "We just sat there waiting for what comes next, not realizing that he had wounded the pastor."

Winters had stood on an elevated platform to deliver his sermon about finding happiness in the workplace and managed to run halfway down the sanctuary's side aisle before collapsing, Cunningham said.

Two congregants tackled the gunman as he pulled the 4-inch knife, and all three were stabbed, police said. The gunman suffered "a pretty serious wound to the neck" while one congregant had lower back wounds, Trent said.

Congregants knocked the gunman between sets of pews, then held him down until police arrived, said church member Don Bohley, who was just outside the sanctuary when the shooting began.

"People came running out and told us to call 911," said Bohley, 72.

Winters was pronounced dead at Anderson Hospital, hospital spokeswoman Natalie Head said.

Authorities didn't know whether Winters, a married father of two who had led the church for nearly 22 years, knew the gunman. Police described the gunman as a 27-year-old from nearby Troy but would not release his name pending possible charges.

Trent said investigators had not immediately uncovered evidence of a criminal background or mental illness.

"We don't know the relationship (between the gunman and pastor), why he's here or what the circumstances came about that caused him in the first place to be here," said Illinois State Police Master Trooper Ralph Timmins.

The Rev. Mark Jones, another pastor at First Baptist, said he briefly saw the gunman but not the shooting, though he heard a sound like miniature firecrackers.

"We have no idea what this guy's motives were," Jones said outside the church.

The gunman and 39-year-old congregant Terry Bullard underwent surgery at St. Louis University Hospital and were in serious condition Sunday evening, spokeswoman Laura Keller said. The other victim, Keith Melton, was treated and released from Gateway Regional Medical Center.

"I would call it heroic," Trent said. "While many understandably were stuck to their seats, they took to action."

First Baptist had an average attendance of 32 people when Winters became senior pastor in 1987; it now has about 1,200 members, according to the church's Web site. Winters also was former president of the Illinois Baptist State Association and an adjunct professor for Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, according to the site.

"Our great God is not surprised by this, or anything," Nate Adams, executive director of the Illinois Baptist State Association, said in a statement. "That He allows evil and free will to have their way in tragedies like this is a mystery in many ways."

The red brick church sits along a busy two-lane highway on the east side of Maryville, a fast-growing village of more than 7,000 about 20 miles northeast of St. Louis. A farm sits directly across from the church, but subdivisions of newer homes can be seen from every side.

"Things like this just don't happen in Maryville," Mayor Larry Gulledge said. "We've lost one the pillars of our community, one of our leaders."

Sharla Dryden, 62, pulled into the church parking lot for a 9:30 a.m. service Sunday to see "just a lot of chaos, lot of police, fire, and people just devastated."

"I would have been devastated if anyone had been shot, but to hear it was the pastor was terrible," Dryden said. "You just never expect this to happen at a church."

At Winters' two-story brick home in Edwardsville, several friends gathered to pay their respects but declined comment. Family members also declined comment.

A statement on First Baptist's Web site asked for prayers for Winters' family, the congregants who tackled the gunman, the gunman and his family, and church members.

More than 20 investigators remained inside the church hours after the shooting, said First Baptist spokesman Marty King. An evening prayer service was planned for members at Metro Community Church in nearby Edwardsville.

Last month, a man shot and killed himself in front of a cross inside televangelist Robert H. Schuller's Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, Calif. In November, a gunman killed his estranged wife in a New Jersey church vestibule as Sunday services let out.

In July, two people were killed and six wounded in a shooting rampage at the Tennessee Valley United Unitarian Church in Knoxville, Tenn. An out-of-work truck driver who police say targeted the church for its liberal leanings pleaded guilty to the shootings and was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

 

Respectfully,
Lenny

"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush


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Wow.  I'm wondering what

Wow.

 

I'm wondering what the motives of the gunman was.

 

 

 


Jormungander
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Bibles stopping bullets is

Bibles stopping bullets is (usually) BS. Though I suppose that it actually worked in this case. Usually people put this to the test and fire through bibles are similarly sized books with 9mm or .45 handguns. Maybe this guy was using a .32 or .22 caliber handgun.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot31_2.htm

I love that site. It is mythbusters for guns. These Texas hicks test gun myths and usually end up determining that most of the myths are BS. On that page they show the 9mm cutting through 7in of paper and the .45 cutting through 4.25in of paper. Perhaps that Bible had a very sturdy binding.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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Some of the nicer Bibles

Some of the nicer Bibles have metal ornamentation on the front with complex geometry; the bullet may have hit the sloped edge or corner of an inlaid crucifix, and that would've been just enough the deflect the round (even while it blasted apart the book).

Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940


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They mentioned this on the

They mentioned this on the 11 PM news last night but did not mention that the Pastor died.  I wonder if it was an intentional omission.

[edit: It's possible that he had not been declared dead by that time or that it had not been released to the public... regardless it's an interesting omission that I'd like to know the story behind.]


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Quote: felt a little bad

Quote:
felt a little bad because I don't feel very bad that there is one less theist to spread the great lie...

I don't get "happy" about any violent crime. But I do understand the feeling of relief. I felt relief when Falwell died. I was in no way happy about any human suffering, but relieved that he wasnt around any more to bully society.

I DO feel sorry from an empathy standpoint, for his family and friends. I dont care who you are, when someone you love dies, it hurts, that is a human quality in all of us.

As for a bible saving people, that is a load of shit, in this case or any. The fact is if a bullet is stopped by any object, it is because the object was thick enough to stop it and the bullet was not a high enough caliber to penitrate the object, and you also have to take into account angle.

I got just as pissed about the "hair" story a few weeks ago when the dumbass woman claimed that her hair stopped the bullet and the dumbass media ate it like flies on shit.

In this story I am glad more people were not hurt. I may be blasphemous and hate absurd claims, but I am still human capable of empathy, even with those I dissagree with.

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 Apparently it was a .45

 Apparently it was a .45 ACP.  If the psycho in question was firing lead bullets or hollowpoints (which is likely given that the second shot was fatal), then it isn't too surprising that a bible or any thick book would have prevented penetration into the body, as those bullets expand on contact and lose lots of velocity.  No miracle there, especially considering that the notoriously jam-happy cartridge didn't lock up the slide as it so often does on the range.

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell


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 Apparently it was a .45

 Apparently it was a .45 ACP.  If the psycho in question was firing lead bullets or hollowpoints (which is likely given that the second shot was fatal), then it isn't too surprising that a bible or any thick book would have prevented penetration into the body, as those bullets expand on contact and lose lots of velocity.  No miracle there, especially considering that the notoriously jam-happy cartridge didn't lock up the slide as it so often does on the range.

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell


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It would've been more

It would've been more impressive if the pastor hadn't been killed before the final round finished him off. The .45 ACP is a rather slow round and would not penetrate a phone book so the fact it wouldn't penetrate a bible is not hard to believe. My .357 mag would have torn right threw but possibly wouldn't be lethal. I hate seeing violent acts like this but it isn't a miracle.

 

"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS


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Cali_Athiest2 wrote:It

Cali_Athiest2 wrote:

It would've been more impressive if the pastor hadn't been killed before the final round finished him off. The .45 ACP is a rather slow round and would not penetrate a phone book so the fact it wouldn't penetrate a bible is not hard to believe. My .357 mag would have torn right threw but possibly wouldn't be lethal. I hate seeing violent acts like this but it isn't a miracle.

 

I'm with you there.  If I've got faith in anything, it's in my Colt Python.

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell


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The tinniest thing can

The tinniest thing can deflect any bullet if momentum and angles are set up ideally. I'll laugh if christians start wearing huge bibles as bullet-proof armour in the face of this.

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To add to the article:Terry

To add to the article:

Terry Sedlacek, 27, suffered from Lyme disease, a condition which provoked erratic behaviour, reports said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7933935.stm

There's your cause.

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If Christians really

If Christians really believed they would go strait to eternal bliss when they die, should not we expect them to be bummed out that the shooter didn´t get them? Why are they all so afraid of death?

Why would someone try to stop the shooter since they all want to be with Jesus? Instead the all cowered in fear and are now in shock. Hardly sounds like any of them really believed.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen