Jon Stewart vs. Jim Cramer

spike.barnett
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Jon Stewart vs. Jim Cramer

Did any one watch the unedited interview? I for one thought it was pretty one-sided in Jon Stewart's favor.

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I think Stewart tried to

I think Stewart tried to connect Cramer's quotes on short selling and how easy it is to fool the FCC to larger issues that Cramer was not involved in. Does Cramer secretly know that he can break the law on TV and get away with it thanks to incompetent beaurocrats that don't understand their own laws? Yes, of course he does. Does that implicate him in the economic crisis? Of course not. John wrongly tried to connect Cramer's quotes with some kind of pervasive economic sickness that investers are suffering from. Cramer's quotes about his hedge fund are not a glimpse into the secret amoral actions of investors. There are amoral investors that do secret unethical things with other peoples' money, but there is no evidence that Cramer is one of them. In fact, he ethically ran his hedge fund and it performed very well. And the only year it did not perform well, Cramer did not charge people the usual management fee since he felt that he didn't deserve it. Cramer is just the wrong person to try and attack with this. John should not have tried to play "connect the dots" between Cramer's descriptions of running hedge funds and the FCC's incompetance and other economic problems or shady investor strategies.

Though it was foolish for Cramer to point out how incompetent the FCC is on television. It makes it seem as though he revels in breaking the law even if he is just making an observation. The FCC is terrible at doing its job, but Cramer should have know better than to say that out loud. In real life, if you point out that the emporer has no clothes, people hate you for it.

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Yikes. That was

Yikes. That was uncomfortable.

I feel sorry for Cramer. He was in a tough position -- being righteously bawled-out by John Stewart, for a situation for which he's not responsible. And, he took it with good grace.

Not that John wasn't right. He was spot-on, in fact. He just used Cramer as a surrugate for all the greedy, manipulative bastards who are responsible for this financial mess. And Cramer really seems to be a good, knowledgeable guy.

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I saw the broadcast, and my

I saw the broadcast, and my reaction was that Cramer deserved every f**king bit of it.

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Jormungander wrote:I think

Jormungander wrote:

I think Stewart tried to connect Cramer's quotes on short selling and how easy it is to fool the FCC to larger issues that Cramer was not involved in. Does Cramer secretly know that he can break the law on TV and get away with it thanks to incompetent beaurocrats that don't understand their own laws? Yes, of course he does. Does that implicate him in the economic crisis? Of course not. John wrongly tried to connect Cramer's quotes with some kind of pervasive economic sickness that investers are suffering from. Cramer's quotes about his hedge fund are not a glimpse into the secret amoral actions of investors. There are amoral investors that do secret unethical things with other peoples' money, but there is no evidence that Cramer is one of them. In fact, he ethically ran his hedge fund and it performed very well. And the only year it did not perform well, Cramer did not charge people the usual management fee since he felt that he didn't deserve it. Cramer is just the wrong person to try and attack with this. John should not have tried to play "connect the dots" between Cramer's descriptions of running hedge funds and the FCC's incompetance and other economic problems or shady investor strategies.

I've been seeing a lot of people make this objection, even going as far as to say that Jon "picked the wrong target" for "making his statement" and so on. I think that maybe this is a misunderstanding of what was actually happening, although I'm not blaming anyone because it's very easy to construe the interview that way.

My understanding was that Stewart never intended Cramer to be a "target",  nor did he intend the interview to be a chance to "pwn him" or anything like that. It looks as if it started off as a broader critique of CNBC, but that the resulting back-and-forth between Stewart and Cramer unexpectedly caught so much of the media's attention  that it culminated in this interview. Jon and Cramer probably did this interview to put the "feud" and related media circus to rest. But while they happened to be there, why not talk more about Jon's original remarks about CNBC and their journalistic ethics? I think many of the viewers, and maybe even initially Cramer, were thinking Jon was using this opportunity to smack Cramer around. (Forgiveable, since Stewart did market it that way, albeit jokingly. Perhaps ironic, since his biggest beef with Cramer is how Cramer markets himself.) I don't think that's what Stewart was going for, though, and I think Cramer came to the same conclusion somewhere in the middle.

As far as Stewart trying to "connect the dots" in the clips of Cramer, I initially thought he was trying to connect Cramer to shady activity as well. But as the interview went on, it seemed more to me that he wasn't trying to indicate that Cramer was INVOLVED in any kind of shady business. He was only trying to indicate that Cramer has a more informed UNDERSTANDING of what shady business was going on and how it operated, and he was trying to suggest that maybe Cramer is doing the general public a disservice by "keeping the secrets" so to speak, and not giving us the information we could use.

In other words, he seems to be suggesting to Cramer that you don't have to open your mouth to be a liar. Withholding the truth is also a form of lying. Then he was simply asking if Cramer could reconcile that with the intention of his show. That seemed to me to be the point of his showing the videos.

Quote:

Though it was foolish for Cramer to point out how incompetent the FCC is on television. It makes it seem as though he revels in breaking the law even if he is just making an observation. The FCC is terrible at doing its job, but Cramer should have know better than to say that out loud. In real life, if you point out that the emporer has no clothes, people hate you for it.

 

But isn't that what Jon Stewart does? I think people only hate you if you point out that the emperor is wearing no clothes while marketing yourself as the kind of person who doesn't do that sort of thing.

 

One criticism I will make of Jon Stewart, though, despite the fact that I don't believe it's something he does intentionally: He does seem to dominate the discussion in many of his interviews. I don't think he's actively trying to talk over his guests. Maybe it's just excitement or the pressure of fitting a potentially three-hour discussion into a ten-minute segment, but he does tend to interrupt and dominate. I wish Comedy Central would grant him a longer time slot so that his interviews would have time to get into a little more substance. But I doubt that's gonna happen.

 

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SEC not FCCSecurities and

SEC not FCC

Securities and Echange Commission

 

I've never been more proud to be a television watcher. Stewart crushed Cramer, but he also exacerbated the class warfare that is kept in check by our civility.

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In fairness to Cramer (and I

In fairness to Cramer (and I only offer this to be the thread's token contrarian):

He's paid by the network to tell people what stocks he's picking. Like, that's his job. I mean, if a TV network approached you and asked you if you wanted to have a show where you just told people what stocks you currently like, and offered to pay you to do that show, you'd decline the offer?

Cramer is hardly doing anything dishonest or immoral by telling people what stocks he's buying and why he's buying them; he's not ging to be right all of the time and shouldn't be expected to be right all of time.

 

That said, yeah - Jon Stewart was spot-on when he talked about the way CNBC marketed 'Mad Money'. That is unethical, as it directly says to the viewer, "Just relax and let Jimmy do your thinking for you."

Honestly, it's an advertising scheme that hurts both the viewer and Cramer when he makes the inevitable poor judgement call.

Jim would also do himself a large service by not being as show-boaty and emotional as he gets (though this might just be a poor habit that's effectively become part of his personality). That said, I imagine he is fairly effective at making an otherwise rather dull topic entertaining as a result.

 

I actually thought the interview itself was very civil. I don't think either party really attacked the other, and they certainly didn' appear all that upset by the end. If you really want to see Jon destroying someone brutally, see his appearance on 'Crossfire' (which is now defunct, as a result of said destroying Sticking out tongue ).

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I watched the full interview

I watched the full interview last night, and I pretty much agree with the way Jon Stewart handled it. I can see how poor Jim Cramer had got himself ito a very uncomfortable position, very much as a result of the way the network publicised his show. He didn't help his case by his attempt to partly defend the more outrageous aspects of the financial manipulations that lead up to the current crisis, and Jon called him on it.

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Archeopteryx

Archeopteryx wrote:

Quote:

Though it was foolish for Cramer to point out how incompetent the FCC is on television. It makes it seem as though he revels in breaking the law even if he is just making an observation. The FCC is terrible at doing its job, but Cramer should have know better than to say that out loud. In real life, if you point out that the emporer has no clothes, people hate you for it.

But isn't that what Jon Stewart does? I think people only hate you if you point out that the emperor is wearing no clothes while marketing yourself as the kind of person who doesn't do that sort of thing.

Jon is a jester. If he announces that the emporer is naked, we all laugh. When Cramer, who is supposed to be a serious man in his own way, announces the same thing we are appalled. If Jon annouces that he could break laws on television and never get in trouble, we would all have a chuckle. When Cramer says it, it sounds sinister. It sounds as though Cramer is amoral and the government can't stop him from violating whichever financial laws he wants to.

Jon is in a privileged position to say things because he is a funny man. If I ran the daily show and said all the same things Jon did, you would be crying or screaming or in stunned silence on account of how fucked up things are by the end of the episode. That show would be grim if anyone but a comedian hosted it.

 

darth_josh wrote:

Stewart crushed Cramer, but he also exacerbated the class warfare that is kept in check by our civility.

Do you really believe that? "Class warfare"? Really? Jon is not exacerbating class warfare. He is pointing out scummy marketing techniques used by a rival network and claiming that good inverstors like Cramer understand sinister plots run by bad investors and yet choose not to warn us; but he isn't lending support to class warfare.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India


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I think josh has a perfectly

I think josh has a perfectly valid point, actually. I mean, what else do you call it when one strata of the socioeconomic spectrum (either side of it) actively conducts activities that are destructive to the opposing strata for their own gain?

Laymen who do not have a lot of capital to invest benefit the most, arguably, by making long-term investments. People who know the system better and have more capital at their disposal tend to do better through shorting stocks and taking riskier maneuvers. These strategies do not exist in a vacuum, and cannot complement each other - they are harmful to each other.

 

In a very real way, our current situation is about as real a result of class warfare as I think you can likely get.

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Jon Stewart

 Yes,Stewart gave Crammer a real beat down and ripped him a new one. 

 


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Vastet wrote: Happen to have

Vastet wrote:

Happen to have a link? Smiling

Sorry about that. I've been AWOL for a couple days. You can watch it at http://www.thedailyshow.com

After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.

The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
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BobSpence1 wrote:I watched

BobSpence1 wrote:

I watched the full interview last night, and I pretty much agree with the way Jon Stewart handled it. I can see how poor Jim Cramer had got himself ito a very uncomfortable position, very much as a result of the way the network publicised his show. He didn't help his case by his attempt to partly defend the more outrageous aspects of the financial manipulations that lead up to the current crisis, and Jon called him on it.

It was the best tongue lashing I've ever seen on T.V. Cramer's position was nearly indefensible, whereas Stewart's was undeniable.

After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.

The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
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darth_josh
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Kevin R Brown wrote:I think

Kevin R Brown wrote:

I think josh has a perfectly valid point, actually. I mean, what else do you call it when one strata of the socioeconomic spectrum (either side of it) actively conducts activities that are destructive to the opposing strata for their own gain?

Laymen who do not have a lot of capital to invest benefit the most, arguably, by making long-term investments. People who know the system better and have more capital at their disposal tend to do better through shorting stocks and taking riskier maneuvers. These strategies do not exist in a vacuum, and cannot complement each other - they are harmful to each other.

 

In a very real way, our current situation is about as real a result of class warfare as I think you can likely get.

 

Un-fucking-believable.

This is the first time you've agreed with me without going back and forth for 20 posts and one of us metaphorically walking away mad.

Check your body temperature. You may have a fever.

 

The Wall Street versus Main Street 'accusations', while manufactured, are still resonating with the unwashed masses. Stewart is capitalizing on that to expand his audience. And doing a damned fine job of it. One of my crew asked me which channel 'The Daily Show' was on so he could catch the re-run.

I once started to explain a credit default swap to this individual, but Nietzsche's reference to the abyss came to mind.

Ye gods! Redneck Tennesseans lulled into the Comedy Central viewership!

Cats and Dogs living together in peace!

The end times approach!!!

 

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