Hey, I'm new
Offline Hey everybody, I'm obviously a new guy. Found this site from a link in some youtube video, and it looked interesting.
Anyway, a short little about me. I've been a rationalist (I like that term as Bill Maher uses it) since about age 7-8. I remember my friend told me one day in class he had seen his parents putting Christmas presents under the tree. Thus, no Santa, which my own paretns admitted when I asked them. I wasn't crushed or anything, since it never really made a whole lot of sense to me. After all, the books I was reading as a little kid weren't bibles and holy fairy tales, but books about dinosaurs, the planet, the solar system, universe, how things worked, etc (all children's versions of course). So, a fat guy with presents defying this concept of "gravity," not to mention time, never sat right with me. And at that same time when this revelation happened, I also thought to myself something like "Ok, that puts an end to that uncertainty. Now, that God fellow everyone's always talking about, that doesn't seem too much more real than Santa. I mean, a 6,000 year old earth? But humans didn't live with dinosaurs, who died out 65 million years ago. And people can''t take a slice of bread and make many breads. And those Jewish and Muslim and people of other religions. How is one right and the others wrong? Either they all are true, which is full of contradictions, or none of them are. Hmm..." So, voila, that's how it started.
Sure, that might not be the best basis for doubting religion, but come on. I was 7. Luckily, since then, I've found absolutely nothing to indicate the likelihood of, and many things to suggest the contrary of, such supernatural beings. Naturally, I have already seen from some of the articles here that I am no where near (unsurprisingly so) as educated in deeply scientific matters as some users here. My AP chemistry class in high school pretty much killed any dreams or desires I had to major in science. Luckily, I've always been a pretty open-minded person, I say, so I'm on the verge of making philosophy my major here in college. And I still like to know things about science, like my childhood interests in space and the earth's past, etc. (they are, after all, the evidence that support my beliefs), but I don't really understand the very complex concepts. Which is why I am extremely pleased to have those that DO understand them on the side of reason and rationality. And hopefully I can perhaps learn a thing or two from reading their posts while here.
I'm sure I'm forgotten stuff but I'm late for a quiz now so I must be off.
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Welcome. Glad to have you join us. Some of us took a long time to become rational (like 30 not 7) but at least I did.
Hope you have an enjoyable time here.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Welcome to the forum.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
That was a good read. Welcome to the site!
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Thanks to all so far.
I remembered what I wanted to say but had forgotten. And that is, oddly enough, that I went to a Catholic high school (the two public schools were really trashy). And for about a year early on I did convert, inwardly only, and I did believe, etc. Ironically, I was more of a Christian than anyone there who actually wore a cross, since, after the masses, I didn't go right back to telling insulting and even racist jokes. But, I got past this 'phase' naturally, when I remembered that I only got into the thing in the first place because it was mysterious and made feel special, even better, than others. ure it also made me feel safe and warm or fuzzy at time, but such a mindset was still exceedingly arrogant. Not to mention the god I was praying to seemed to be doing the Opposite of what I asked every time. The final straws were perhaps:
A) The diocese took away the class that had only been given one year, luckily the year I had taken it because it was very rewarding, and that class was Religions of the World. Yeah, the diocese didn't care for other cultures or viewpoints.
B) One of my religion teachers, when we were dicussing abortion, asked when it was ok for a woman to have one. I said, as is obvious, because it's her choice. And she said "No it isn't" way too quickly and way too certainly for my tastes.
And C) Now, I can sometimes be a very lazy person. Bodily not mentally. And at times I just don't like exerting energy. This was especially true of schoolwork, with which I was being overloaded in senior year. And stoic as I tried to be, I was starting to feel the pressure, and it was starting to show in my behavior in class. So one time I got a little snippy with my English teacher, and she asked to speak to me after class. Now, she wasn't mean or anything, but while we were talking, I confessed to her that I was just really ticked off at all the work we were getting in all our classes and it was far too much. And then, she said "Well, you know God put us on this earth to work."
BAM. That was it. It wasn't mainly that I didn't like working so much that the idea it was my sole purpose didn't appeal to me (though that was part of it back then), but what bugged me worse, and still does to this day, was that she had the audacity, nice tone or no, to tell me what that someone had given me a purpose and I had no say in it. Then I came back to reason.
So the point I'm making is just that I've been there, far more genuine in my faith than anyone around me was, and I still eventually saw it as massively fallible and just plain silly when compared with what I had believed before and do now. Well, that's my story.
Or perhaps I just talk too much...
Great story. You are obviously an intelligent young man. Your story is very similar to mine. I remember what it felt like when I realized Santa wasn't real, and I, like you, was not heartbroken. After all, I had never seen him or talked to him, so how could I be sad that he wasn't real? Then, in my adult years, I slowly came to the same realization about God. Same story; I've never seen him, never talked to him, so no big deal. The hardest part is dealing with people who think you are crazy for believing what you do. Especially when all lines of rational thought point to the much more likely story that they are the crazy ones. And that to me is what God is; the grown-up version of Santa. When we were kids, it was simple. Santa told us to be good so we could get our presents. As adults, it's just about the same, only the ante is much higher. Either way, follow your heart, follow your mind, stay strong. I found out early that being an Atheist IS NOT THE EASY WAY OUT. But if you believe it is the right way, as I do, stick with it. Always keep an open mind, avoid belittling those people of faith, especially to their faces. We are all on this journey together.