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The Debate is Over. The Empire > The Federation
Posted on: May 8, 2009 - 3:46pm
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The Debate is Over. The Empire > The Federation
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
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The explosion of a ship the size of the Enterprise would be much larger. We all know what happens when warp drives blow up. Besides, if a starship can destroy a Borg Sphere, even if a Borg Sphere could destroy any given starship, it's not necessarily so that the Death Star, even if it did destroy the Enterprise, could destroy any Federation ship. Obviously, there needs to be a rematch. Just how big is the Death Star anyhow?
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
The thing is, if the Death Star can blow up a planet, there's no way even the Borg, with their rotating deflector frequencies, would stand a chance. Where the Federation has to get... what... ten or twelve of the best starship they have, and blast away at a Borg Cube with every bit of firepower they can muster, the Death Star just has to take one shot. The Borg won't have a chance to change their deflector frequencies because there won't be a ship left. Planet > Borg Cube.
Then, the death star can just change the frequency of its death ray for the next ship. Line em up and set em down.
Game over man. Game over.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Fair enough, but the Deat Star only has one of those planet buster weapons, right? And Luke Skywalker blew the whole thing up with a dinky X-Fighter(?)? The Borg have cutter beams. They can slice through a planet, or a starship. I'm just saying, it looks like the match is pretty even in the end. I might give one up on the Borg for sheer size. I don't think the Empire boasts quite the number of star systems, people or ships of equivalent strength to the Collective. Which is rather beside the point as Voyager was still able to deal them a pretty bad blow (and singlehandedly destroy more than one Cube/Sphere). It looks like starships > Empire/Borg. And that X-Fighter > Federation/Borg/Empire. (If Luke can blow up the Death Star with that piece of crap, he'll have no problem with the Federation or Borg.)
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Not even close. By the time the Death Star cycled up for a shot, the Borg have beamed in and assimilated the crew. Well, wait, maybe not. They will be rewiring the ship, but the actual fire fight of Borg drones versus Stormtroopers would likely last a few decades as the only deaths would come from old age. And, of course, if R2D2 is onboard, he'd reverse hack the Borg. It's all up in the air!
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Oh, now it's on!!!
In fairness to the Imperial Navy, they definitely have the firepower and numerical advantage over the Feds (for example, the Sovereign Class starship; the design first registered as the NCC-1701-E, or 'Enterprise-E', has 16 phaser arrays, 9 photon torpedo tubes and 1 quantum torpedo tube1. Compare this (the armament of arguably the most advanced and heavily armed Federation starship) to the loadout of even a standard first-generation Imperial-Class Star Destroyer: 6 Dual heavy turbolasers, 2 Dual heavy ion cannons, 2 Quad heavy turbolasers, 3 Triple medium turbolasers, 2 Medium turbolasers, 60 XX-9 heavy turbolasers (manufactured by the Taim & Bak corporation) and 60 NK-7 ion cannons (manufactured by the Borstel corporation)2.
However, the Feds have a huge array of scale-tipping wildcards at their disposal. Engineers who whip-up technobabblish super-inventions (typically with a one-time use) that can defeat any conceivable foe. Magical wormhole deities. Temporal displacement technology. Etc.
Sure, the Death Star might be able to blow away the Enterprise. But then Captain Picard would probably just travel back in time, talk Admiral Piett into doing the right thing and living up to his standards, have Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader arrested and given a fair trial, and then go on his way.
Boo yah.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
any thoughts on death star vs. v'ger?
I knew somebody was going to cite sources. I knew it.
The thing is, (and correct me if I'm wrong... I really am just guessing) I've read a couple of the Star Wars novels, and had some idea of the immense firepower of Imperial Cruisers. It stands to reason that if they can outfit a cruiser with that much juice, the Death Star itself -- the most valuable piece of equipment in the galaxy, presumably -- must be the most intensely fortified piece of equipment, too. It doesn't just have that big gun that can blow up a planet! How many Tie Fighters does it have permanently stationed? Aren't they the best combat pilots available? If you get past the fighters, don't they have turbo laser gun thingies at pretty much every point, so that anywhere you happen to be, there's a good third of the sphere with some kind of shot at you? They have tractor beams which can presumably be put into reverse. I'd think you could rip apart a pretty large ship with a couple of well placed tractors.
But you know what pissed me off the most about Star Trek? They finally -- FINALLY -- invented an enemy that was absolutely not, under any circumstances whatsoever, interested in talking. No philosophy. No talk. Just BIG BOOM and assimilation. And what happens? Fucking Picard gets captured and fucking talks FOR the Borg. Fucking Fuck!
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I suggested that perhaps they were going to end the Star Trek franchise by having the ultimate consumers absorb the ultimate socialists.
Coincidentally, I started learning my under-the-hood computer skills shortly thereafter, what with having to fix my own machine because the IT crew got really busy and always had to keep pushing back my repair/maintenance appointments.
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
I'm reminded of the South Park episode where the children need a time machine to go back to the third grade, but the two computer nerds won't work together because they're fighting over how many original Star Trek episodes there were.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
OMG, a girl! Everybody run! COOTIES!!
"Fuchsia alert!"
"Anyone can repress a woman, but you need 'dictated' scriptures to feel you're really right in repressing her. In the same way, homophobes thrive everywhere. But you must feel you've got scripture on your side to come up with the tedious 'Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve' style arguments instead of just recognising that some people are different." - Douglas Murray
So, maybe now is a good time for me to mention that hardware aside, Star Trek does whip Star Wars ass in one very important category: The presence of women. Apparently in Star Wars World, there can only be one woman in any good story, and she has to be aloof and distant. If she has to be something other than aloof and distant, she has to be a great fighter. None of this "acting feminine in any way whatsoever" shit.
Yeah, Baby!
You know it!
You're beautiful when you're angry baby.... Do I make you horny?
Woah... Fembots! Run!
As opposed to...
Really? Star Trek FTW
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Oh, of course. The second incarnation of the Death Star, if completed, would've been an indestructible avatar of doom. It would've been armed with (in addition to the superlaser) 15,000 turbolasers, 15,000 heavy turbolasers, 5,000 ion cannons, 7,500 point defense lasers, several dozen squadrons of TIE starfighters (7,200 craft total), and well over a million combat ready troops1
...Teacher?
When do I get my gold star?
(All of that fancy weaponry, however, would do little in combatting a dedicated Borg effort to assimilate the battle station, IMHO. A Borg Cube, even blasted apart, can still harbor plenty of borg drones - so even the fragments of cubes blown away by the superlaser would hit the Death Star as it's gravity well pulled them in. After that, the Borg would simply overwhelm the crew - regardless of the initial numerical superiority - due to A) the difficulty in killing the drones and B) the ease of assimilating storm troopers.
Google up 'Zombie Machine'follow this link to get an idea of how boned the Death Star would be if even just a small number of Borg got on it.)- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Fun Times!
Again!
lololololololol.
I didn't think there was any way to make Eddie funnier than he already was, but I was wrong.
Rill
Im pretty sure the Death Star "Shielding" would wtfpwn any Borg as it is... and in the Star-Trek universe, you cant teleport through Shields... plus, we all know what happened to the Rebels when they flew at the Death Star with raised shields (Flaming bug on invisible windshield! )
(although you are right in that IF Borg ever got aboard... Death Star will become Borg Star... )
What Would Kharn Do?
Snatch Wars and Brick Vader for the win!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDKiQfBs9lo
Actually I think the beaming through shields argument doesn't apply for Star Wars. They have no such thing as beaming in that universe, so we can't assume their shields can't be beamed through. If you could teleport an armed photon torpedo into the center of the Death Star, you wouldn't need to deal with the superlaser.
"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men."
--Bertrand Russell
OK.
Star Trek wins in the numbers of babes contest, BUT every damned one of the little trek tarts had some emotional issue whereas Leia was the epitome of kickass womanhood.
I'll trade one good wench from Alderaan for all of the trek women in history.
OH! and even though the trek babes wore tight or next to no clothes, people will forever remember the gold bikini on Leia in Jabba's palace.
I'm not even going to use Natalie Portman and Keira Knightley swapping roles and zapping Nemoidians and droids.
Trek tramps are trailer trash in the presence of queens and senators.
Trek fans don't be too proud of your technological terrors. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.
The empire would suck your precious enterprise into a docking bay and send waves of stormtroopers into the halls to murder passengers and crew saving senior officers for interrogation at the hands of Vader.(pun intended)
OR
A jedi boarding party of two would slash their way through to the bridge where even your blast doors would get sliced to ribbons. Phaser blasts seem to move slower than blaster fire so one of those jedi can be an apprentice if necessary.
OR
We could let the wookie win.
Even if the time travel bullshit works, Lucas or one of the other hundreds of Star Wars book writers can go back and create a plot to explain it away as an isolated incident in the grand scheme of the old republic or Sith empires.
History changing writers FTW.
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Clearly, V'Ger.
V'Ger, very big and very powerful.
Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
i concur.
When I first read the title, I thought "The Federation" was just some weird renaming of the rebels. When I read the title "Deat Star Destroys Enterprise", I at first thought that was the "Millenium Falcon" and was confused when I saw this other, strange ship getting blown up instead. When Thomathy started talking about "borgs" my confusion just skyrocketed, which wasn't exactly helped when cubes, "Collective" and Kevin's whole load of jibberish entered the scene.
It wasn't until I heard the name "Picard" that I realized that this gruesome, boring, lame and mindblowingly dull piece of crap they like to call "Star Trek" was the source for these foreign words. I just don't understand what makes people like you guys, who usually seem to be quite sane about things, able to like that show so much, or even at all.
...
Okay, I understand that asking you not to kill me would be asking too much of you by now, but can you please make it quick and not too painful?
"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy."
Easy to win when you don't have to conform to the laws of reality. Amirite?
Alright, that was too geeky, even for me.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?