How can people allow this?
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Warning please do not play this video if you are faint at heart and do not wish to see something vile. It is at the extreme end of cruel imo, the title is puting it nicely.
Yes this is a peta video, well the peta video is 40 minutes to long, this is just a clip of it from youtube. Please ignore who it is from and just think about it. I'm not here to advocate you turn vegetarian like peta does, but I do ask that you look where your meat comes from. With crops I cannot just say organic is the way, but with animals I must say factory farming should be illegal (please note these are just extreme acts of animal abuse, it isn't this bad in all factory farms but even so most are appalling imo). We do not need to eat meat everyday to survive so i can't rationalize the need to factory farm. Especially not when it can produce results like these.
Also there is an award winning animation on Factory Farming called 'the meatrix', there are 3 episodes, I really recommend you watch them, they are not so much a pull at your heart strings as this clip is, it should be easy to find on YouTube or you can watch It at their site.
Quite a lot of this factory farming meat goes to the fast food industry, but is not exclusive to it. So all I want to know is can you rationalize this?
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
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I can't, won't, and don't.
This kind of stuff is why I'm vegan.
If I could get meat (or even milk or eggs) from sources that I knew didn't do this, I wouldn't be vegan. Though I'd still go really light on the stuff.
I've known about this for years- not through PETA, because I don't like them much- though I think it's interesting to see others' reactions to this 'breaking news.'
As you say it isn't breaking news but I think it is good to be reminded now and then or nothing can happen to stop it.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
Definitely. Thanks for the video and the new thread.
Well, I tend to eat a fair amount of meat. I'm an omnivore, and while I don't condone superfluous suffering, I don't have a problem with killing animals for food, or paying someone else to do it for me. The area I live in is surrounded by farms, both family and factory. Frankly, both types of farms seem to be more humane around here than some of the pet owners I have seen. I've also never seen abuse like PETA seems to think always happens. For example, there are no farms here that practice anything like the beak sanding seen in this video. And this includes the huge egg factory in the neighboring town.
I suppose it doesn't bother me much because I have watched predators pull down and devour animals alive. I have also seen animals starve and freeze to death. If you think farms are brutal, you haven't watched an animal scream it's lungs out as the predator takes its time eating it. I have, and I think a .22 to the head(standard method at the local slaughterhouse) is much more merciful.
Then again, all of the meat I normally purchase is locally raised, so I can go visit the farms in question and see exactly what conditions exist(and, in fact, I have done so). Maybe it's just a midwest thing, where people are all into 4-H and such, but the farmers around here respect the animals, and treat them well. Part of it is sympathy(minimize pain), part of it is good business sense(a mistreated animal is worth less).
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Yeah!
Just like how killing people indiscriminately an taking their things shouldn't bother anyone, since the Nazis did it all of the time.
*facepalm*
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
I happen to hold human life in much higher esteem. And I also don't kid myself that I am anything but an especially smart omnivorous ape. If you equate the killing and eating of prey animals with the Holocaust, I expect to see a video of you saving prey from predators.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Here! Here!
Awh damn it you got me again >.< bastard!
What Would Kharn Do?
Do you know what 'internally inconsistent' means? Stating that you think humans are in a special moral category, but then also stating that humans are not special, is internally inconsistent.
Holy fuck, I'm just so fucking tired of listening to sheeple parrot what they've been told, no matter how ridiculous or illogical or irrational it is. Fuck this.
Keep watchin' that tube and playing baah-baah with your friends, dude. I'm out.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Don't get your panties in a wad, Kevin. And why the fuck would you assume that I get my ideas about farming and predation from television? Did I not mention that I live in the middle of fucking farm country in Assmunch, Kansas? Did I not mention that I have been to the local farms? This is first hand knowledge.
My empathy for humans is based on instinct. If I were put in the position to choose between a human life and an animal, barring some exetreme circumstances, I would save the human. And if that human happened to be a kid, for example, there are very few animals I would hesitate to shoot. Tell me, does the fact that chimps prey on other primates but not each other make them inconsistent? Or wolves? I got news for you, Kevin, it's hard wired. I rank human life as more important than other animals(with certain caveats). I assign a range of values to different animal species.
Also, understand that I am not supporting the brutal things that PETA gets on film. Some factory farms suck and hire sadistic assholes with no oversight. But don't assume that the average farm is a horror show like that.
EDIT: Also, it may surprise you to learn that I am leaning towards advocating vegetarianism, but not because of animal suffering, but rather because it is too inefficient to be carnivorous with the population we are building up. The question is whether that would help, as large scale agricultural buildup is also damaging to the environment. Every soybean field you plant is a mono-cultured replacement of the original ecology. Unless we can actually get the population under control and/or engineer those skyscraper urban farms that pop up every now and again in the news, we'll all likely be eating processed algae grown in human waste.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
All these arguments make the same fallacy. There is simply no proof that that farm is the norm.
That said, that sort of thing should be illegal, but make the action illegal, not factory farming.
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Not every one shares your sense of morality. Some people don't care about the pain and suffering they cause others. Plainly put, they're ass-holes.
I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, but I do eat mostly plant products. I don't think it's healthy to not eat meat. There are too many proteins you can't get from plants.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace
Anecdotally, I would say that that is the case(that the farm shown is not the norm). I couldn't count the number of farms I've been to, and I have never witnessed anything of the sort. In my experience, the people who have abused animals the most have been urban pet owners.
That being said, I agree with Captain. Make the abuse illegal.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Enjoyed watching the vids while I cooked up some beef burgers! Got some mo?
oh this are just the worst PETA could find, far from the norm. I say factory farming should be illegal because the animals are to tightly packed in most cases causeing high levels of stress and diesease. Because of this stress chickens have to be debeaked, it is common is these places, dairy cows tails get cut of, the horns of cows get cut off, all to stop them killing each other because of the stress put on them. They have to be pumped with anti biotics causeing prolems. They are pumped with growth hormons so they put on weight twice as quick, the results some animals can no longer walk because there bone structure is to weak so they starve to death. The whole situation just screams to me to be wrong, sure I don't mind killing animals for food but at least treat them good untill you kill them. All these thing I have posted are common, there are far more but I am lazy. Also if you ban all of these things then there would be no point in factory farming. I disagree with the entire concept of a factory farm so I think they should be illegal.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
See, you've just described a situation that seems to be a minority. I live smack dab in the middle of Kansas. There is a large poultry factory farm in the next town over. They keep the place clean, the chickens clean and well-fed, and as stress free as possible. Why? Because stressed chickens aren't going to lay as much.
I am surrounded by people raising cattle, pigs, goats and sheep. Aside from practices like growing young cattle for veal(a practice I do not support, do not consume, and frankly have never seen on a farm), most cattle are allowed to range most of their lives. The same with the other mammal livestock. They are only gathered together for a short time, either for moving from one field to another or shortly before sale to a feedlot or processing plant. The pigs kept in this area are left in outside pens and kept clean. Granted, the spot where the pig waste is collected on those farms.....let's just say you know you are coming up on a pig farm if you pass it on the highway. I would say that the only livestock I see in pens are generally birds. And I've never seen conditions remotely like that video. And they are usually penned to prevent predation(raccoons, coyotes, opossums, foxes, etc). EDIT: Correction, rabbits tend to be penned, too.
Now, the feedlots are where you will get my agreement. It's not that the cattle are abused there, but rather that there are so many in one place that they do tend to use antibiotics to prevent loss. This needs to be changed, but I don't claim to know what direction it should take.
This also raises another question. Where are the farms that everyone agrees are brutal, nasty places? I fully admit that my information is anecdotal. I have no hard numbers to share, only my decades of observations.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
aaaa now I see, I'm talking about factory farms. When animals are allowed to roam outside that is fine (besides feed lots). Just btw, there are quite alot in america but for the most part will be much cleaner than shown in that video. If it is a large chicken farm it is likely that they are pumped full or hormones and they all all but certianly pumped full and anti biotics. Those clips would mainly come from south america. it is not as fringe as you make out. Most beef comes from feed lots. most cattle is slaughtered inbetween 1 and 2 years old, in fact after 30 months it is considered not fit for slaugther. So by most of there lives roaming you mean about a year max. but I wouldn't call what happens to most cows roaming outside.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
I suppose they just don't exist then, in my area. All the meat I purchase is raised within a few miles of the stores carrying it.
And I just got off the phone with the manager of the local poultry plant I mentioned in an earlier post. They do not practice large scale antibiotic use(only occasional spot use) on the conventional side, and they don't use it at all on the organic side. The only thing they do for growth is careful cross-breeding and a high-nutrient feed. And this is a plant owned by one of the major American poultry chains, so I am inclined to believe that this is not unique to this plant.
Yes, I agree that feedlots are a problem. Not in the concept(gathering cattle in bulk for slaughter), but rather the execution. I think that they should have a maximum animal density rule. Either that, or cut the time spent in feed lots down. Even so, most of those cows literally roam big fenced fields until the moment they are shipped out to the feedlot. I honestly invite you to take a drive through Kansas. Well, ok, I don't really. No one should have to endure this much boredom and lack of ocean. But if you did, a casual drive down a county highway will likely allow you to view several hundred cattle, all ranging around on acres of prairie. My only advice is to watch very carefully for large flocks of wild turkeys. They will cover the roads on occasion at this time of year, and it can be a nasty surprise to come over a rise and find yourself seconds away from impact with a large number of birds. Especially if you are on a motorcycle.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
are they Battery chikens? If not then really I don't have to many problem with how that place is run (at least from what you have said i'm inclinde to believe that it is one of the better ones, as I said most of those would of come from south america, that would be my guess), unless they are packed in tight. Lol that maybe a problem to go to kansas as I live in south Africa
Maybe kansas is doing it well but not all places are. I know for a fact that the ones here are quiet bad.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
I'm not familiar with the term battery. What does it refer to?
And, as I said, people here have more of a connection with their animals. I think the general pattern here is locally owned independent farmers who are part of associations who sell as a group. That's the norm for the whole state, as far as I know.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Frankly, Kevin, it's not internally inconsistent to, as a human, regard your own life and those of other humans as more important than those of other animals and also be able to recognize that humans are also animals. That, of course, has nothing to do with being blatantly cruel toward animals or how morality should apply to human interactions with animals (a topic that has been exhaustively discussed here in the past). We may be animals, Kevin, but when you equate humans with all other animals you run into some problems very quickly. Equating the Holocaust with with the operation of the depicted farm/slaughterhouse is something I expect of PETA, not of you. There's more potent, intelligent and rational arguments to be made. Don't be so quick to chew people up, k?
(Incidentally, how're things?)
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
I do not hold humans as higher than any other animal. If it was a decision between the lives of a human or something else, it would depend on the individuals. The holocaust was not done for a food source. We are not yet at soylent green levels.
I think that if you are going to eat something that was alive, you should at least respect it enough to allow it some meager amount of a normal life.
For crops, I eat organic because of pesticides. For animals, I try to eat organic and free ranged, and look into what companies I buy from to see what kind of environments the animals might be raised.
I don't think it would be a bad thing for people to know where their food comes from. Too many people are so distanced from their food sources today, with food so processed you couldn't even tell what it came from originally.
I think that if enough people got fed up with these practices, they might get revised.
Buffalo burgers are delicious though.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
That's no lie. There's a buffalo ranch about 45 minutes from here. The buffalo are free to roam a couple hundred acres, and the meat is always excellent. Of course, with a lot of hunters in the family, I also get a fair amount of wild game. Not bad, either.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
battery chickens are the chickens kept in those cages, more used for eggs
example
or does it look more like the one below?
or none of the above?
btw they are called broilers
*Edit*
because the internet is the way it is the over crowded ones are the ones it shows
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
Well said
As people my or may not of noticed I have made lots of threads about food over what the last month maybe two? This is the entire reason for me doing so. It is because what you put in your mouth is so important and so few people (at least where I live) know what it takes to feed a country, that is why I have been making them.
I prefer ostrich
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
I haven't visited it since it was rebuilt a couple of years ago. I'll try to swing by next week and get a tour.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
How is one to know where there meat is coming from short of shopping at organic markets? How would I know if the meat in my freezer is paying for that?
Ask the store manager. If they don't know, find a source who does, like an independent meat market.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Bravo, good sir. You have taken a monumental tragedy and turned it into a talking point to use in discussion. Every internet discussion on vegetarianism/veganism and one real life discussion has included someone turning one of history's greatest tragedies into a talking point. Is there any way that meat eating discussions could be had without death camp comparisons? At least you had the slightest amount of tact necessary to not directly compare slaughter houses to death camps as others have in previous discussions.
As for the video: I'm against hitting chickens with clubs and standing on pigs. I approve of everything else shown in it. Sadly, the worst of the worst that PETA can find is mostly OK with me. I can only hope that those cows shown being slaughtered by having their throats' slit were made into Hebrew National hot dogs. PETA needs to make better propaganda films. I feel hungry for steak and hot dogs, but not enraged at modern farming practices.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
Humans who have no empathy for animals have something wrong with them. Those are the types that are likely to hit/abuse their family and other people.
*Our world is far more complex than the rigid structure we want to assign to it, and we will probably never fully understand it.*
"Those believers who are sophisticated enough to understand the paradox have found exciting ways to bend logic into pretzel shapes in order to defend the indefensible." - Hamby
You approve of De-Breaking? Even though chickens have a high consentration of nerve endings in there beaks? You approve of Slaming pigs into the ground? You approve of animals being alive in the meat preporation factory passed the point where they were suposed to be killed? You approve cuting off bulls horns? You approve of branding even though we have better and less painful ways to identify whos cow is whos? Just curious?
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
Chickens like to fight and kill one another. My parents used to own chickens and they were mean. They killed the two young turkeys that my parents owned by pecking them to death. I understand why debeaking them is so important. Due to their tendency to fight and kill by pecking, I support debeaking them 100%. Given the alternative of having them use their beaks in death matches makes debeaking them the best choice. Do you want chickens killing each other with beaks or do you want debeaked chickens. It is one option or the other if the chickens are living together.
Yes. I give my 100% approval to that. It breaks their necks for a clean and humane kill. It is the pig version of having their necks rung.
Yes, so long as they are unconscious. With a slit throat and most of their blood missing, they can not remain conscious. The fact that they are still alive doesn't worry me. If they were conscious and being dismembered I would not like that. But I don't think that happens in meat processing plants, so I won't worry about that.
I have no problem with removing bulls' horns or branding. But I believe that tagging their ears is the most commonly used method. I'm not against branding and it is not widely used anymore. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Like I said, PETA needs better propaganda films. Only the clubbings and standing on animals seemed wrong to me in the film. Everything else was humane and moral animal raising and slaughtering. In all seriousness that film made me feel hungry.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
I'm sorry chickens do not often kill other chickens often unless they are in a high stress environment, I happen to own 20 of them. Not one has killed another but I know it does happen sometimes. Take them out of the high stress environment and it will be unneccisary.
Tip, not all die, there are easier more human methods, besides those animals were oviously for slaugther why kill them? I'm sure other people might like a fre pig.
perhaps you should suggest they be unconcious when there throats are cut? But more importantly don't cut there throats in the first place, there are better methods now.
You are not against sticking a white hot iron in a animal for no reason except to show ownership? really sick, really that is disturbing. You don't seem to care if we inflict unnessicary pain on animals. Its not PETA that neds to a better job, you just need to learn some basic compasion
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
Then you seem to be agreeing with Jormungander.
Factory farming is business and because it's business, money comes first. Even if some of the chickens die, farmers almost always attain the most profit by packing as many animals as possible into a small area. Obviously, the chickens will not peck or fight each other unless they're subjected to high levels of stress, but, unfortunately, they are. In that scenario, I also think debeaking is the better choice.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
I prefer the choice of taking them out of the facrtory farms and not needing to de-beak them, I see no need for factory farms.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
I see the need for factory farms. It uses less land and other resources per chicken to factory farm them. We could raise chickens free range and needlessly waste resources on them; or we could efficiently factory farm them. Almost all chicken farmers in the U.S. have wisely chosen to factory farm their chickens. More food for less resources gives us the need for factory farms.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
I ask you where does the chicken feed used in these places come from? how much land was used to create it, what else has been done to it? what are the inputs to that? etc etc unil it is back in the ground? what is the electricity usage? etc etc in the end you will see it has quite high resources usage. Perhaps less per chicken I don't know, perhaps a link is in order weather it is lower as I really don't know, try find one. I really would be interested in what it looks like.
Ok let me bring up the antibiotic stuff. there it has been brought up im sure you know what mass antibiotics do.
btw did you know the recent swine flu thing may of origanate in a factory farm? Im not saying this is proof or anything but it is somthing to think about.
http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-25-swine-flu-smithfield/
Also health, factory farm animals are genrally not as good for you and infact can be harmfull.
http://www.wspafarmwelfare.org/hhhome.html
lastly on a more personal note, i do not see the need to eat so much meat, infact to much can be unhealthy factory farm or not. So why the need to produce so much meat? We can survive healthily on much less. This reduction in meat production frees up basic foods making them cheaper as i think it's 80% of corn grown i the US is fed to cattle...(not 100% sure on the exact figure) I think you see my point... weather you agree is differant i supose.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
I wonder if we could feed people without factory farms. We already have famine in the less resource wealthy places of the world.
After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.
The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut.
MySpace
Quite easily, as meat is non essential. infact it would free up food for humans if we took them off there current diet and have them eat grass instead.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
I've seen videos similar to that one, and I agree that those conditions are horrific. A few points...
First, I see nothing inherently wrong in eating animals. The fact is, even in the wild, animals must endure harsh conditions, and end up as someone else's food quite often. If we don't eat an animal, something else will.
However, I agree that that does not entitle us to treat livestock inhumanely. Living in the midwest, I've driven through farmland and visited many farms, and have never seen anything even closely resembling the situations shown in those videos. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but you should also be aware that PETA and organizations like it are trying to push a certain agenda. Any shreds of evidence to lend support to their position are obviously going to be exploited. It would be helpful to obtain some numbers on how many farms actually use those practices, to put the matter in perspective. I'm not saying that these behaviors are to be condoned if they're in the minority, but rather, that we shouldn't neglect to mention the many farms that are "doing it right" instead of constantly casting such a negative light on farming and animal usage.
It's unrealistic to expect factory farming to go away, because the fact is that it is efficient at producing food in a world where resources are dwindling. Likewise, it's ridiculous to ask people to stop eating meat completely - I don't think that's healthy. What I do is try to buy meat products that come from farms committed to raising organic food, or sources that state what their practices are on the packaging - such as "cage-free" eggs, "free-range" chicken, etc. That way, the farmers that use methods I support morally are supported financially, and companies that abuse animals lose business. Hopefully, if enough people adopt these practices, trends will reverse and standards will be put in place to legally limit how farms can treat their animals.
As the other poster said, yes. It's no different than spaying/neutering or declawing or clipping wings, or any of that.
Sure, if everything were utopian and all the requisite conditions existed for a utopia the animals could graze wildly, naturally with vegetarian human settlements. The fact is there's more than 7 billion of us and food resources are presently stretched. We can propose any number of implementable solution to this dilema that may be feasible in the future, but for now and undoubedtly because humans aren't prone to drastic change, the way it is done is the way it must be done. That's not to say I agree with all farming practises, however.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
I don't think you can rationalize factory farming. It's the worst of all possible worlds. I'm lucky enough to have a place I can go to get locally raised meat and poultry. But that's luck, not some claim of the moral high ground.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Is that really true, though? Is it more efficient to centralize sources of meat, and ship them, rather than having many local producers? I don't know if that argument works out.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Not so much "stretched" as "segregated". Many Western countries have too much food, and a high rate of spoilage.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Yup nothing wrong with eating animals
I am well aware of how PETA operates. What you are seeing could be one of a few thing when drive through farmland.... One of them could be where the cattle are raised before they are sent to places like those. Cattle are mainly sent to feed lots, there are about 96000 feed lots in the usa.
http://vlex.com/vid/sic-beef-cattle-feedlots-52086016
That is just one type of factory farming. 97% of pork comes from factory farms.
http://www.farmforward.com/features/pigmanship
You cannot raise animals in factory farms, they are not born there. They are sent there. So yes you will see lots of open farm lands where animals are 'free' this is before they are send to factory farms. Yes some farms do do it right. Also theydon't ship all the cattle to factory farms most will sell some independantly, not to factory farms. or slaugther some themselves
Yes it is ridiculous to ask people to stop eating meat, humans eat meat, although we don't strickly need it as adults. Yes it would be unrealistic for me to expect it to go away, but that doesn't stop me from wanting it.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
want to guess how many nerve endings there are in the beak of a chicken? I can see it is nessicary if you factory farm, but i argue it is still abuse as you do not need to do it, First you put the chickens in a high stress environment then you cut off there beaks because where you put them causes them to fight? Doesn't see right to me.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
well if you have the concentration the same well yeah it just doesn't work, how about the same place they were raised, as most animals are just sent to factory farms to fatten up a few months before slaugther. Simple? true we do not have as much meat, but the grain used to feed them is taken out of the equation freeing up food. While I do realise there are problems, I cannot see the need for it. just btw want to know how much waste these places produce? oh and dont start me on rendering
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
Don't get me wrong: on the whole, a population of 7 billion will not last long on planet earth. The squeeze will eventually come, of that much we can be certain. But regarding the original post, I don't see the necessity of consuming quite as much livestock as we do.
I just mean logistically: if North America were magically switched to organic farming, then food would necessarily be expensive, more people would become farmers (see the early 1900s farming population in the New World for comparison), and people would eat less meat. We currently have too much, so it's not like we'd starve, we would just have less than more than we need (!)
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Tapey, Will, I know. I know. I can see the waste and the need for change. The problems are apparent. I'm sure you both know that I happen to agree with you, largely. The problem is that there is a problem. I'd very much like for it to be solved and much like Will, I do what I can to minimize my impact, but that is not helping. I mean, sure, if everyone lived like Will or myself or even one-uped us, it'd be better. If we could legislate our current lifestyle out of existence, we'd probably be better off. I'd really like that.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."