greek word ''shall"
Posted on: May 19, 2009 - 2:32pm
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greek word ''shall"
Does anyone know what Greek word was used for "shall" in Mark chapter 16, it's meaning and where I can go to get it's meaning? I could not find it in Strong's. I have been debating Bible passages on another site with christians who keep referring to the Hebrew and Greek. I want to make sure "shall" actually means shall before I point out how Christians are suppose to have the signs in Mark 16:16-20 follow them. Thanks to anyone who can help
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. - Carl Sagan
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. - School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #1
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Unfortunately I don't know, but I have a quick question. Does this discussion include the fact the anything after Mark 16:8 is a later addition to the gospel?
I am glad you asked that. The christians that I am debating believe that the whole Bible is the inerrant word of God. Even though I might not point out what you said to them, could you still tell me when each part of Mark 16 was written? Thanks
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. - Carl Sagan
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. - School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #1
I find this wikipedia article quite good. Wikipedia articles on bible stuff usually contains some fraction of real critical scholarship, along with the usual fluff to appease the traditionalists (which I would guess the christians you're debating would be classified as). Basically, the two earliest complete manuscripts of Mark, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, both end with Mark 16:8. That would make the ending (Mark 16:9-20) a 5th century addition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16
But as I am sure you're aware, people who hold to the inerrancy doctrine most likely dismiss the entire field of critical scholarship (when applied to the bible, the qur'an is fair game ofc).
Try this text, and then ask questions:
Greek Interlinear Bible
I think the passage you're referring to uses the future tense, which means that "shall" is only part of the translation of the future tense, and has no meaning on its own.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
i read the info on wiki which helped. now i will read the info from the Greek Interlinear Bible. thanks everyone, i appreciate the help
You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe. - Carl Sagan
Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. - School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #1
Where is this debate happening?
the greek interlinear bible is very helpful, although it would be a whole lot more helpful if you already knew some greek to help with translating the actual sentences into meaningful, coherent and accurate english rather than simply looking at each word in isolation and trying to piece it together like an alta-vista babelfish translation. it's still useful if you want to see where individual words come from, or for people like me who haven't looked at any greek in years and have forgotten their vocabulary but still have a vague understanding of how it's supposed to work ...
one example of what i'm getting at would be "khruxate" (or "kErussO" as it is transliterated there) in Mark 16:15. this is apparently translated as "proclaim" but the "-te" ending means that it would better be translated "and proclaim", which is how it is actually translated in the KJV bible. it's not a major point, but just in case you're wondering why these things are translated as they are - the actual vocabulary is the least of your worries when trying to translate ancient greek.
"swqhsetai" (that's the transliteration of the word which the interlinear translation translates as "SHALL-BE-BEING-SAVED" ) is the 3rd person, singular, future, passive form of the verb "to save". the subject is "o pisteusas kai baptisqeis" - he who believes and is baptised (i know the interlinear translation doesn't seem to say that but this is why you need to know grammar as well as vocabulary to translate greek accurately) and the sentence up to this point means: he who believes and is baptised (3rd person, singular) shall (future) be saved (passive). the rest of the verse is the same sort of thing, "but he who does not believe shall be condemned".
why were you particularly interested in where "shall" came from in this verse, out of curiosity? and how was your debate (assuming it's already taken place)?
Hello Bobby,
The Greek terms for "shall be saved" and "shall be condemned" in Mk. 16:16 are each expressed in Greek by forms of their respective root-words ("saved" and "condemned"
. So, for "shall be saved" there is no separate word for "shall"; it's just one word. You can find the relevant word in Strong's by looking up the words "saved" and "damned" and using the index-numbers given for the occurrences in Mk. 16;16.
I don't think there's anything unusual about these words.
Also, the bit about the signs, in 16:17-18, is distinct from 16:16. The saying about the miraculous signs can be taken as a prediction meant to apply especially to the apostles; the part about belief and baptism seems more like a normative piece of instruction.
Yours in Christ,
James Snapp, Jr.