A secret society for realists
Offline One of the major reasons why religions and secret societies (such as the Freemasons) have been so successful is that they provide a social center for their members and, either actively or as a natural byproduct, a support network where their members help each other. This is something realists lack. I have an idea on how to supply that. I would appreciate input.
<!--break-->
[FYI: A realist is what I call myself. Someone that holds reality as the only reality. I don't call myself an atheist since I do not like to use a purposely negative label and because it is only partially correct about my position on reality. An atheist means anti-god. I am not anti-god but pro-reality. If anyone can scientifically prove there's a god, I will accept that fact. That and I also don't believe in an afterlife, reincarnation, or any other superstition or myth without supporting scientific proof. Technically, an atheist can believe in an afterlife ... just one without a god. For example, Buddhists are atheists and believe in reincarnation.]
Before I tell the idea, I should make another thing clear. What I'm proposing isn't an activist group. It doesn't seek to convert anyone to its position on religion. Its goal is not to confront religious people or organizations. It wouldn't do publicity stunts. Its advertising campaigns would only seek out realists and encourage them to join. Now I assume some here might feel what I'm proposing should be more activist and/or radical, but I believe by it not being so is the best way for it to grow and be successful.
One last thing before I tell the idea. I currently have the financial resources to start the first lodge. Very likely, it will be in Las Vegas due to a new company that is interested in hiring me as their chief marketing officer will have its headquarters there.
Now the idea...
A private social club for realists.
Using the Freemasons as a model, it would have local lodges and be exclusionary. Only realists can join it. Prospective members would need to publicly state before an assembly of the club's membership that they are realists and disavow any belief in any religion, god, myth, or superstition. Agnostics would not be allowed to join.
The initial club itself would be a fitness center. The idea is to provide more than just socializing as a reason for members to join. As a club grows, it would add additional functions to its facility, such as possibly a bowling alley, sand volleyball courts, a free DVD library, espresso cafe, etc. How the individual clubs would grow in these ways would be up to that club's leadership.
There would be four levels of membership. To be a member of a higher level, you must already be a member of all the levels below it.
The first level is free to any realist. This level enables one to enjoy all of the club facilities. Free membership to its fitness center, free bowling, etc. The only thing required for this membership level is the public statement of one's non-religious nature.
The second level of membership is for those willing to give a certain percentage of their income to help financially support the social club and, to a much lesser extent, the international organization. As a reward for doing so, this level would quietly and actively work to help advance each other in one's business or career. In other works, this is where strong networking is done among members. It would also be this level of membership that elects their local club's leadership.
The third level of membership is for those willing to give a certain percentage of their income to support certain scientific research. This done through research grants and funding milestone cash prizes. The areas of research being human longevity, human rejuvenation, nanotechnology, artificial intelligence, and human cryonics. The goal of this level is to extend human lifespans as long as possible while at the same time as healthy as possible. This would be the "good public works" of the organization. Aside from the scientific goals this level would help bring about, another reason for members to join this level is that it would only be from this level that the membership of the next and highest level would be selected.
The fourth level would be the group of members that would vote on organization-wide matters and elect the leadership of the international organization. Membership of this level would be restricted to a maximum of 200 so they have a good chance of actually knowing each other. This group would be made up of the most powerful and influential members of the world-wide organization that are members of the third level of membership and would meet twice a year.
As for growing the membership of local clubs, each local club would advertise locally in their local newspapers and on their local TV and radio stations. Advertising accounts would be set up so if a local newspaper or local TV/radio newscast does a news story on certain topics, they can tap an advertising budget to run ads for the local club at such times. The topics being things like favorable news stories about Charles Darwin and evolution and unfavorable news stories about crimes committed by religious ministers and churches. The ads run during/beside these news stories being simply promotional and not evangelical.
As for setting up clubs in new cities, each club would employ at least four full-time employees. A social director, a networker (whose sole focus is helping the second level of membership network), and an assistant for each. When the international organization can afford to do so, it will open a new lodge in a new city. Which city decided by the fourth level of membership. The before-mentioned assistants at all current clubs will then be allowed to apply to be the new club's social director and networker. The best two will be hired and oversee the founding of the new club.
If a realist is not in a city that has a lodge, they can still join the organization and work their way up the membership hierarchy. The nearest lodge to them would be their "home" lodge and, saying they seek the second level of membership, its networker would work on their behalf. These lodge-less members will have a major impact on which city will get the next lodge. The more lodge-less members a city has, the more likely that will be the city where the next lodge will be opened.
And that's basically the idea. Constructive input sought and appreciated.
- Login to post comments
Welcome to the forum!
I like the term 'humanist.'
How do you define agnosticism?
http://www.rationalresponders.com/am_i_agnostic_or_atheist
This seems like a good idea, but...I don't know. Organizing the irreligious is like herding cats, and I'm not sure whether non-theists would support such a centralized structure.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
God help you. Just kidding.
Since you're a realist, you should ask answers these questions from the skeptics:
Why should anyone trust you?
Why should you trust anyone who would want to join?
How do you prevent this from becoming a pyramid scam or being perceived that way?
Do you have to wear ridiculous hats?
What I'd like to see is an alternative to church on Sundays. Motivation talks, help for families, relationships, etc... based on reason not religion.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Thanks for the welcome.
One that is not willing to take a firm position in regards to religion, god(s), afterlife, reincarnation, and/or other myths and superstitions. Fence-sitters who discount and refuse to accept the positions of both ones advocating a negative as ones advocating a positive.
The private social club I'm describing isn't right for them nor are they right for it.
Just like most things in life, you cannot please 100% of the people 100% of the time. For some, this will be a good social club for them and they're welcomed to join. For others, not and that will be the end of it. If those that initially decide not to join later decide to join, great and they'll be welcomed. For this social club to be successful, it doesn't need 100% of all realists to join it.
After reading how the private social club is set up and run, if people still don't trust me then they shouldn't join.
This isn't heart surgery. This is a social club. No life or death decisions will be made by or asked of members.
The simplest way is simply prohibiting those above the first level of membership from being employed by their local clubs or the international organization. Such employees will pay no dues and cannot vote for the leadership of either their local club or the international organization. And the leadership positions are unpaid.
As for myself as founder, I will not seek employment from the organization but instead be part of the fourth level of membership. My plan is to be the first fourth level member and invite the first twenty members of that level. From that point forward, names would be openly nominated by that pool of twenty-one and voted upon. Once made a member of the fourth level, the appointment is for life. I will be in no rush to reach the 200 maximum for the fourth level membership and will be a strong advocate of nominating only quality candidates for it.
Also, I will be contributing to my local club, the international organization, and scientific research just like anyone else. As a CMO, my contribution will likely be more than most but that's fine. My hope is that others will take the same view.
Only pyramid hats made out of aluminum foil freshly soaked in urine. That and special underwear made out of itchy wool. Also, it will be recommended that you chop off your right ring finger as it will then be MUCH easier to do the club's secret five-minute-long handshake.
What each individual local club does is up to its second-level members and their elected leadership.
For what it's worth I like your idea. Not 100%, but mostly I like it.
Not worrying about pleasing everyone is a great first step. Herding cats is often used to describe organizing those that don't need the crutch of make believe deities. But organizing us would be an awesome step toward making the world a better place. I can just imagine the theists as they catch wind of any organization that actually starts to gather steam and make headway into promoting reality over make believe.
Let me know when you're ready to start a chapter in the Northwest/Seattle.
Respectfully,
Lenny
"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush
What other atheist online forums to which it would be good to post this idea? I am seeking constructive input from a variety of sources.
And as the company for which I will be working will also be in Los Angeles, New York City, Atlanta, Dallas, and Miami (and possibly London) and my job has me pretty much on the road all the time, possibly I should open the first lodge in one of these larger cities. The logic being there's more potential members in these cities than Las Vegas that could join. If done in Los Angeles, possibly some Hollywood celebrities would join and that could get media attention for the organization.
And thanks for the kind words, Lenny.
Try
http://forums.leagueofreason.co.uk/
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Thanks. I have posted an updated version of my original post there. It being updated to address most issues raised about it here. That thread can be viewed at:
http://forums.leagueofreason.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=974
Religion has fucked up the world in a lot of ways, but one of the reasons it has had so much success is its ability to unite people (if only to kill other people). So modeling an organization after a religious organization makes sense. I mean, they have a proven track record so why not start there?
The idea has merit and I hope you run with it. To date, the only secular organizations are generally issue oriented (for the whole "herding kittens" reason previously mentioned), having a social club is a good idea.
I've spend some weekends there every year. I'd try it out.
Why not start with a web site, blog and forum?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Welcome!
I like the idea of mixing a private club with a naturalis/humanist theme. When you say "realist", you match the philosophical school of naturalism or physicalism pretty well.
I think I'm going to start my own "Department of Physical Education", that mixes exercise with physicalist or phenomenalist philosophy. I really like this idea. I'll see if there are some website names available. Maybe a nice Yale-like serif. Hmm ...
...
Anyone think "deptphysed.com" is too difficult to remember?
...
Like any club, it would have to start as an informal gathering, or it runs the risk of being contrived and dull. Neat idea, though. I think I'd have to go with a private club's fee schedule if facilities were offered, though. Rent is expensive.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Oh, and how exactly do you go about publicizing a 'secret' society?
Secrect decoder rings in boxes of cereal... jeez, where have you been?
What Would Kharn Do?
You've exceeded the USDA recommended daily dosage of
Gerin Oil for
suicide bombers.
I was thinking about the secret part also. I think it would be much better if it was just a closed "order" or whatever. Sort of like the Shriners or any of the other organizations out there that exist for mostly good reasons but are closed to the general public.
Respectfully,
Lenny
"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush
There are already fora like this one. As for a website, that will be done. As for a blog, I don't see the effort being worth it nor what I'd write in it.
What I'm seeking now is input on the idea from realist fora like this one.
Thanks.
It is more of a naming issue as for why I picked calling myself a realist. Some have thought I'm talking about nudism when I say "naturalism" and "physicalism" would probably get confused as wrongly meaning something focused on fitness.
Glad to hear that.
I have already secured www.RealistClub.com (and .org, .info., and .net). Until another name impresses me, I'll be going with that.
To get it across on a radio talk show, most definitely yes.
A URL should be one that is easy to remember when verbally told it.
Most clubs start that way since they cannot afford a physical building. I am willing to pop for such from the start. Having a physical building should help recruit members. That and I will be also popping for a local ad campaign.
And I am talking about this idea here and other fora (currently just League of Reason, see link above) to hammer the idea out into a better shape. However, I am not going to wait until it is in perfect shape since that will never be possible.
Sorry, I'm not following you on those last two sentences. Could you please rephrase them?
A secret society doesn't mean it is unknown to people. The Freemasons (Shriners are a sub-group of the Masons), Moose, Knights of Columbus, PEO, etc. are all secret societies. A secret society simply means one that holds secrets. Things they want to just tell their members and not the public at large.
As for raising public awareness of the organization, that would simply be done with local ad and publicity campaigns.
But what secrets would you want this organization to have? It seems to me that most of us just want people to get a grip on reality. The "secrets" belong to those trying to control others. We believe in truth and reality, why keep anything secret? I think trying to associate anything with the word secret, even if everything is on the table as it were, is just giving the theists something to run with and point out how we're trying to take over the world and sacrifice babies and have orgies, etc, ad nauseum.
If I understand your intentions it will be more of a closed club anyway. It will be exclusive to people that don't need the crutch of imaginary friends.
One last thing. You might consider a level of membership for those that want to support your club but don't live anywhere remotely close to where you'll be establishing them. THey might get membership card and some kind of certificate proclaiming thier support of reality or whatever...
Enough from me
Respectfully,
Lenny
"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush
The names of members, what happens at the lodge, the activities of the lodge's Networker, what happens at the semi-annual meetings of the fourth-level members, and things along those lines. There are strong biases against realists in many cultures, even supposed enlightened ones. I am looking at this organization as providing a safe fun oasis for realists to relax and be themselves.
While I agree with that sentiment, that's not what the organization I'm trying to start is about. It isn't an activist or educational organization. It is just a private social club for only realists.
Because there are many times when people just want to kick back and relax in privacy with people of their choosing. There are plenty of realist organizations that are fighting the good fight (Rational Response Squad being one of those) but my bet is that even these warriors want occasional R&R from the battlefield. That's what my organization is meant to provide them and other realists. A place to recharge their batteries. A place filled with people just like themselves. A place where they'll feel welcomed and appreciated. I think we lose a lot of activists due to battle fatigue. My organization would be the cure for that.
Actually, I think that would be a good outcome if it were to happen. Right now us realists are viewed as on the fringe, powerless, scattered, few in numbers, heartless, anti-social, anti-community, and located somewhere else. By having local lodges and funding certain scientific initiatives, the organization would counter that image.
That is correct, but being a closed exclusive club is basically what secret societies are.
Any realists anywhere in the world can become a member of the organization, including when it is initially only one lodge. As for something physical to show their membership, there will be rings for the different levels of membership. Due to many members not wanting their membership publicly known, the rings are not mandatory but if some members would like to have a ring, they can order them. Those who are first-level members will need to pay for theirs since membership to the first level is free and the rings are not mandatory. Those second level and higher will get theirs free for the asking since they're financially contributing to the organization.
Now if someone lives where there isn't a lodge would like to become a second-level member, they can do that. The nearest lodge to them will be their home lodge and, upon financially contributing to the organization, that lodge's Networker would assist them as best as they can.
Also, where the next lodge will be located will be heavily influenced by how many lodge-less members that city possesses. The more lodge-less members, the more likely that city will get the next lodge.
Nah, keep it up. I am here to hammer this idea out and I need constructive input to do that.
LOL. How much dope have you been smoking?
The way secret societies work is they make it seem like they are exclusive, they are very hard to get into. 'We only take high caliber people as members.' This makes people want to join and makes them feel special when they become members. The real secret is they are not exclusive, they'll take anyone as long as they pay the dues and follow the rules.
So the only secret is that we are not really a secret and exclusive society. So after ne members finish the initiation, we tell them this secret.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Sorry, that was truncated speech. I meant that since rent/upkeep is expensive, I'd have a preference for charging like a private club would. I can understand wanting to get people involved, but facilities can be very difficult to maintain. You seem to be taking the reasonable approach of starting small, though, so I imagine you won't have too much of a problem.
Saint Will: no gyration without funkstification.
fabulae! nil satis firmi video quam ob rem accipere hunc mi expediat metum. - Terence
Thanks for clarifying that, HisWillness.
And do you or anyone else have another atheist online forum that would likely give good constructive criticism of this idea? Another aside from League of Reason.
I have been giving your comment a lot of thought. I see value in it. I think what I might do is start up monthly meetings in each of the cities to which I'll be regularly traveling for my next job. Tentatively, that looks like Atlanta, Dallas, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, and New York City (and possibly London). My job will take me to each every month. I could then be in attendence to their meetings and be a force behind them. I would start each of them so their monthly meeting date would be such that I would be in that city then. I'd pop for local advertising of the meetings and cover the cost of renting fun locations for those meetings. Possibly one month, it could be a bowling alley. Another month's meeting could be at a sports bar that has a lot of sand volleyball courts. Paintball field the next month. And so on.
During those meetings, I'd tell of my more grand idea of a global network of private social clubs for just realists. Attendees would be more than welcome to chip in money for these monthly events (they becoming the forerunners of second-level members) and possibly even having donation cans out for the scientific initiatives (this being the forerunner of the third-level of membership). If some of those that attend these monthly are powerful, influential and/or successful, I'd see if they would be interested in being part of my "kitchen cabinet" to talk very seriously about my idea of a global network of private social clubs (these individuals being the forerunners of the fourth level of membership).
Then if one of these monthly social clubs really takes off, I would then step forward with hopefully other members and we would then open the first lodge. Then I'd try to do the same in each of the other monthly-meeting cities. After all those cities have their own lodges, the international organization should be nice and healthy and then it can take forward the expansion process itself.
How do you all like the above change to my idea?
You left Seattle off your list
I understand the Northwest is one of the least godly areas in the nation.
Respectfully,
Lenny
"The righteous rise, With burning eyes, Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
Witch Hunt from the album Moving Pictures. Neal Pert, Rush
It isn't a city where my next employer will have a presence thus where I will regularly visit. Eventually, Seattle but initally I plan to start the social club network in the cities where my job will be regularly taking me every month.