'Pro life' proponent once again apparently gets tired of waiting for his deity to do his dirty work...
Posted on: May 31, 2009 - 3:14pm
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'Pro life' proponent once again apparently gets tired of waiting for his deity to do his dirty work...
Props to Dead_Again for bring this story up.
God just plain wouldn't smite the good doctor, so I guess the Christian decided to switch to bullets (nothing says, "I'm for life!" like shooting people in the face, afterall).
Condolences to the Tiller family.
Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
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Wow, I feel sorry for you people living in the US. Well, It's not like my country's any better :/
''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''
That's fucked. Any believer who finds the silver lining there ought to think for a moment on how it's somehow more desirable to go to hell to stop a man from killing foetuses (and will go to hell himself) when there's an omnipotent, omnibenevolant god they've been praying to to take care of what they believe it proscribed against. Mysterious ways must be another way of saying logically inconsistent.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
You think that's fucked-up, Thom? Check this out (Props to mr804 for that URL).
Just read through the comments. Plenty of gems to go around.
I don't know whether to laugh myself to tears or go hang myself int the closet. It's just surreal to see people who are that dysfunctional.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
I knew George. He was a great man with a wonderful sense of humor. Already one pastor in town is openly rejoicing about the death and celebrating by putting up new church signs attacking him. This same pastor is on trial for battery for attacking one of my friends. There's a candlelight vigil tonight, I wouldn't be surprised if the Antis show up to cause some trouble as they have at past funerals.
The other Antis are working on damage control. I shouldn't say I'm surprised by the Freepers comments, I don't usually expect Antis to be so honest. Troy Newman, of Operation Rescue here in town, condemns the assassination despite advocating for it for years. I guess they'll have to find a real job now.
Some of the people there are telling others not to celebrate death and that this will harm the anti-choice movement.
"Actions like this do vast harm to the Pro-Life movement...not to mention 2nd Amendment rights.
Actions like this give the opponents talking points and rationale to click the ratchet one more notch."
" The media and the democrats will just use it as a club to bash all of us who don’t believe in abortion now."
"Don’t get me wrong. I will fight these people to my last breath, but it doesn’t help our cause if they are gunned down by people on our side."
But sadly, most "pro-life" members are celebrating death and are in glee that this man was murdered while trying to go to church.
Nothing says "pro-life" like gunning someone down on their way to church.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
British General Charles Napier while in India
OK, not that I buy into the whole xtian thing but there is some significance in the fact that he was killed on his way INTO church.
Had he been killed on his way out, then presumably, he would have participated in whatever ceremony was scheduled, possibly involving communion. In that specific case, he would be under a general forgiveness and an automatic entrant into heaven. As that did not happen, the shooter pretty much condemned the doctor to hell.
So what happened to “judge not lest ye be judged”? That is broken at this point. The shooter has taken the authority of god on his own shoulders here. I will not claim to understand the logic here but the way that I was raised, if someone murdered Adolf Hitler on his way out of church on the last Sunday before the battle of Berlin, Hitler would have been one of god's own special people.
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This is a common Kevin tactic.
X person has killed for Y therefore all people who are Y want to do what X did, all condone what X did and Y is wrong.
I believe this is the "Bad company" fallacy
Pineapple, Kevin said no such thing - and you know it. Take particular note of where you used the two phrases 'all people' and 'all condone' - then go back and re-read Kevins post, and tell me where your conclusion (actually, an obnoxious accuusation is what it really is) is supported by the evidence?
Pineapple's Reply: Assumptions, Assumptions
Pineapple's Result: Complete Fail.
Like I said, Kevin pulls the bad company a lot and I've seen his posts about abortion and he doesn't seem to have a high opinion on pro-lifers that I have a hard time believing that this is the exception.
The 'bad company fallacy'? I think you might mean 'guilt by association'?
*Sigh*
Whatever.
I didn't even bring this up. It was mentioned on Skype, and I thought I'd share the grim news. Aren't you even going to say, "Gee, it's too bad Dr. Tiller was murdered in cold blood," before getting on your soap box?
No, I don't think highly of 'pro lifers' (You'll note that in this particular instance, 'pro life' is a total sham of a term). The vast majority of the Freepers I linked to earlier (most of which offered nothing better than, "Well, I condemn the death, but it was a long time comin'!" ) would embody my reasons why, as would your own contribution (deciding that the first thing you need to do when hearing about an anti-abortion nutball shooting a doctor who performs abortions is go on the attack, rather than acknowledge a tragedy).
This isn't an isolated incident, either; Tiller had been targeted by a racket ('Operation Rescue') for some years, had been previously shot by one of their goons and had his clinic bombed.
Why not just duplicate my 'tactic' in order to demonstrate it's folly, Alison, to rub my nose in? From now on, whenever there's a story about a pro life organization who is viciously attacked by abortion doctors, post it up and mock me about how even-handed the two ideologies must be.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
But what if the Doctor had gone to church the afternoon before that, and didn't commit any sins since then?
''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''
Must....stare.....at...profile..vid..
Welcome to the forums!!
''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''
1] Never condoned the attack and in fact condem it. There it is.
2] I was just pointing out the fallacy.
3]I think you made this topic to make the fallacy rather than report on the news.
For the record that would be Tu Quoe
At least he died doing what he loved. Sucking out the brains of deformed unborn babies with a vacuum.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
Yeah. Now that you've been asked.
Jesus fucking Christ, you just don't get it.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Oh Kevin, we both know that you didn't do it to "share the grim news" considering the topic title and your other post.
But whatever.
Like I said, I'm not even the one who picked-up the story. So, bullshit.
You, on the other hand, came running in here with a "Me, Me, Me!" attitude, ignored the story and tried to start shit.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
So in other words instead of condeming the attacks and offering condolences, the first thing you do is attack pro-lifers?
[EDIT]
Okay okay, maybe that was a little too bitchy even for me.
To tell the truth, yeah I did get pissed of at your piss ass attitude towards pro-lifers. But you seemed to have reciprocated.
[/EDIT]
...Or, as Dead Again was able to surmise, pointing-out the hypocrisy of calling oneself 'pro life' and then commiting murder.
There wasn't much point in offering condolences during an idle chit-chat session on Skype to people it wouldn't mean anything to; I thought the more appropriate place to put that would be in the forum topic.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
The "pro-lifers" obviously can't handle that things go on in other people's lives they don't agree with, that deal in no way with them.
It's too much. They have to have a say about everyone else's lives, because imposing your sense of morality on others is somehow just to them.
It's really sad that this happened. I wonder if it's time to start having other people push THEIR sense of morality on how these lunatics are morally bankrupt.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
There should be a law that mandates anyone who calims to be "Pro Life" *MUST* either adopt an unwanted child, or shut the fuck up.
Like anything else that comes out of the Christian community, this is never about what they say it is, rather it is just another way for these sanctimonious bigots to excersize their burning desire to impose their will on others.
You want out of the recession?...Tax the fucking Churches!!!!
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
I just heard a quote from a doctor who knew him, "The only difference between this guy(meaning the killer), and the Taliban, is 8,000 miles".
It is one thing to be against abortion. And despite what fundies might think, even some atheists are against it.
I hate claims of the super natural myself, but I don't go blowing up churches because I find god, by any label, past or present, belief silly and inmature.
I can't stand that schoolyard mentality that theism promotes. If I cant monopolize the swingset and tell you how to use it, I am going to blow it up so no one can use it.
WHAT A FUCKTARD!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Yet blowing up civilians including children, in a needless war with no evidence to support an invasion, THATS OK.
It never occurs to pro-lifers that pro-choice people are NOT advocating pregnancy just so a woman can throw a party over having an abortion.
"YIPPY......I GOT PREGNANT JUST TO HAVE FUN SO I COULD HAVE AN ABORTION" Give me a fucking break.
The bottem line, unless it is your own uterus, SHUT THE FUCK UP!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
If someone could find and post the video of pro-lifers being asked what should be the punishment for a woman who has an abortion if it were outlawed. Quite telling.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The only thing Kevin has done is point to those people, who do not constitute the whole of Y, who are monsters. Some of them are monsters, Captain. They are very bad people. You clearly wouldn't disagree with this, so, a part from trying to catch Kevin in a fallacy you invented for him what is your problem with his posting this story if he hasn't made any explicit (or, let's face it, implicit) attempt to prove anything by this?
This one interests me the most: Reichstag Fire.
What the fuck!? Seriously.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Come on now, murder is ok when it is done to support your own club. In urban cultures, they are called GANGS!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Not this one?
"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."
YEP, that's the one.
They want to call it murder, but don't want to apply the punishment we put forth in law for "murder".
Hypocrites an liers. They don't think it is murder, otherwise they'd put women in jail for life, or on death row. THAT is what we do to people who "murder".
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
lol stupid people. The chick around 4:40 appears to be the only one that has even thought for a second and even her not much more than that. It's really simple if it is murder like they say it is the punishment is 25 to life. But due to the extreme young age of the victim it should probably be more than normal jail time for normal murder. They really shouldn't be calling it murder if they dont want the same punishment as murder.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
Cpt.,
Part of me wants to agree with you. Unfortunately, I know too many people where I live who are pining for an opportunity to be "agents of God" in just such a manner as Kevin described.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Well, I suppose that in that speific case, the good doctor could have a seat in heaven (if it exited, of course). However, I don't see that that would modify the shooter's mens rea.
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He's performing abortions on the angels now.
It was a lot better than I expected.
"Because, as evil as Tiller was, murder is murder. As noted in the post you were responding to, somebody lost her brother today. That is tragic."
"Let’s hope responses on this thread do not celebrate this. Let the other side celebrate death, not us. We need to defeat the dark side in the minds and hearts of people."
"I hate that somebody shot him to death because it makes us all look like whackos. And for those who would tell me that the lives of others are more important that our image, please spare me. I already know that truth."
"Amen. We do celebrate life and oppose death. There should be no rejoicing at this news."
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Pineapple, I have a hard time saying this to you, since you're in a debate with Kevin, who doesn't get out much, but you need to get out more.
A lot of your reasoning with regard to religion's impact on society is naive. Plain and simple. It's sort of like communism. It looks good on paper, but it's not how the real world operates. You're trying to put a human nature you haven't experienced firsthand through a math model, and that's just not going to give you accurate results because you don't have enough or true enough information.
The snarky part of me really just wants you and Kevin to fuck and have a cigarette. The genuine part of me that wishes a happy life for you... well, I want you to get out, travel a bit, spend some time watching religion in action, especially in the south of the United States, or maybe the midwest.
The thing is, Pineapple, I, and most of the other posters here who are in their 30s or 40s, have lived a lot, and experienced a lot. We've seen all the sides of religion. I have, at least. I've attended churches that were as liberal and openminded as churches get, and I've been to Bible-thumping hate-fests. I've lived in cities where literally the whole government were Christians, and I've lived in places where nobody mentioned their religion in public.
I know it's hard for you to do this, Cpt, but I think it might be time for you to let your intellect take over where your emotions aren't lining up with reality. The best answer you can give about religion and society is that you don't know. If you really want to know, get out and experience religion in all its "beneficial glory.' Get to know some liberal theists, some bible thumpers, some ex-Christians, and some lifelong atheists. Pick their brains, watch their lives, get to know them really well. Do this for a couple of decades, and travel a bit. Then come back and look at your statistical models and see if they match reality.
I'm telling you now that they don't, but I'd rather you learn it for yourself.
Look, I don't know what Kevin's motive for posting was. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the anti-abortionists are doing bad things. They advocate bad things. The religious people you claim he's including in his accusations? The ones who aren't doing anything like that? They aren't doing anything! When they start to look bad because of another shooting or bombing, they spend a few weeks doing spin control, making sure we non-Christians and liberal Christians know that it's just the loonies who are taking their religion at its own word. (Though... how in the hell did they get anything about abortion out of the bible? It's never addressed...)
I said this to someone else earlier this week. It's not our duty (atheist activists) to make sure to point out the fringe theists who are exceptions to the rule followed by nearly all theists. True, militant (in the correct usage) anti-abortionists are rare, but their sentiment is shared by millions. The number of Christians who are actively opposing them, and supporting abortion rights? Miniscule. Their effect on their fellow theists? Virtually nonexistent.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
i laughed... i laughed so hard...
Honestly though, that would probably solve alot of "problems"
What Would Kharn Do?
eerrrr NO!
So you want me to rely on ancedotal evidence?
This is pretty much the definition of Bad Company aka Guilt by association.
Let's take a closer look
This would imply that in order to truly speak out against those who go IRA on the clinics would require that I support abortion rights, regardless of whether or not I personally think abortion is good or bad.
Let's apply that logic else where shall we?
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html
Therefore unless you want to be like Stalin/Pol Pot you MUST speak out against government programs! Regardless of whether or not you personally think that socialism will help or hinder the society.
How the fuck did an abortion thread lead to this issue?
FIRST OFF, since it was brought up, even before Obama did these things our country has always had socialistic parts. POST OFFICE, POLICE, FIREMEN, SCHOOLS, MILITARY. None of those things, with the exception of schools, are private. PRIVATE industry work with these PUBLICALLY funded entities to make the products they use.
SECONDLY, this "ownership" is not. It is a loan and as soon as a private buyer wants it, and sees that GM is making money again, the shares we are bailing out will be paid back with interest, and the total of the company will once again be fully back in the private sector. SOME act as if Obama wants to make this a perminant thing. It wasn't socialism when FDR did it and it wont be now.
What the hell does this have to do with abortion, and who in their right mind thinks because we don't believe in magical fictional beings that we would want to live under Stalin or Po Pott?
If people think nothing in life should be socialized, then those who think that should be the first to give up their SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS!
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I wasn't arguing against socialism or atheism, I was pointing out the fallacy and using socialism as an example.
There will be some breaking news on the RRS show tomorrow evening about the assassination. Actually it may come out in the media tomorrow, but you might as well get it first from me and Sapient.
...But I don't smoke.
Smoking is bad for your health.
Cubed, are you guys still breaking some news to us tonight?
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
There is presently technical difficulties Sapient is sorting out. May be a delay, may be no interview. The news isn't so breaking as it went out in today's local paper.
So what was the news anyway?
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People are fucked up. Scariest thing is that many people will support this act.
Irony about this event makes me lough, though. Pro-life people are killing their opponents.
Operation Rescue was well acquainted with the killer, Scott Roeder, and are now busily attempting to erase this fact from public record.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Oh yes Its all about Jesus, thats what all of this is about