Can't get my mind around religion...
Offline I have a really weird predicament....
One of the main reasons I walked away from Christianity and religion for good was because it doesn't make any sense to me. After being forced to reconvert and repent like 8 times in my life, I finally walked away from it for good... but now I have this unbeleivable fear of hell.. even though I constantly think it doesn't exist.
The main thing that always comes up is "What if??"... "What if it does exist and the whole damn thing is true".
I don't understand why I still freak out about it whenever someone starts talking about natural disasters or how the earth will scientifically have to die...
I don't understand why I'm faced with an unbeleivable fear of hell when I already think it doesn't exist.
It torments me alot of the time, and I just want to be rid of it... why are there so many religions.. and they don't make sense. I try to reason logically about hell and heaven and god... but it still torments me. I don't understand how brainwashing can have such a STRONG influence on me and I don't know why it has to bother me so much this way.
I mean there are sooo many contradictions I've seen in the bible, and it HAS to be written by man... but in my mind I find it hard to beleive that because of all the proof I was given as a kid as to how and the evidience that it WAS written by god through man... it doesn't make any sense.
Why can't I just accept the fact that religion is total bullshit, and get rid of my fear of hell? I'm tired of tossing and turning at night and sleepless nights over such a subject, and I just want peace on the issue... and there is NO WAY I would EVER go back to religion.
I've found a new way of life.. thats more enjoyable and more fulfilling and I'm not giving it up just to rid myself of a fear that needs go away.
Can anyone help me with this?? Or is it something that one needs to figure out on their own?
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I think it's partly because religion teaches you to doubt.
It doesn't teach you to doubt god, or god's words, or the priestly interpretation of god's words. It teaches you to doubt yourself, to doubt anything that might contradict the priestly interpretation of god's words.
The fact that you fear hell, rather than fear not being with god, indicates the religion in which you were raised. It seems that this is a religion that emphasizes punishment for wrongdoing, one that sees sin as omnipresent, that seems people as weak. It seems you were perhaps raised in a fearful faith.
All I'm saying is, perhaps you doubt yourself because you were trained to doubt yourself. A kid that is constantly told he's stupid will think he's stupid every time he makes a mistake, even in spite of brilliant success. There's always that doubt: "What if they were right? What if I am stupid? What if I am destined for hell?"
That's always going to be a question. What if they were right? You've already figured out they weren't, but what if they were?
They were wrong, you know. There's no hell, and any god worth respecting (let alone worshiping) wouldn't allow a hell to exist. So if you do find yourself in hell, god wasn't worth believing in anyway.
And if you do find yourself in hell, look me up. We'll do lunch. I hope you like barbeque.
"Yes, I seriously believe that consciousness is a product of a natural process. I find that the neuroscientists, psychologists, and philosophers who proceed from that premise are the ones who are actually making useful contributions to our understanding of the mind." - PZ Myers
In laymen's terms you got the shit scared into you by the people who sold you this myth.
What happend to you is no different than scaring a kid by telling them if they missbehaive you will dump them off in the woods and leave them for good.
For some it takes longer to get over this feeling. I do know for me that I had enough separation from that over a long period of time. HOWEVER, when I finally did get online and seek out other atheists, the deep seeded bombardment of "atheists are bad", all my life, still made me hesitate that maybe if I click on one of these sites, I'd be joining a cult.
I have no fear of hell because it is fiction, but so is heaven.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Sounds like you're a prime candidate for either Valium, and/or an anti-depressent, not to mention a
Psychiatrist. I AM speaking seriously!
I would start with a psychiatrist, and let them decide whether meds are apropreate.
It really sounds to me that those around you tramatized you with fear, probibly from a young age, maybe even before your youngest memories, and maybe also fear of other things and not just religion.
Even when I was a young teen, watching the Wizzard of Oz still spooked me, and that was just a movie.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Agreed.
I would suggest the same.
Don't you get it, that's the holy spirit trying to help you go back to your godl--- eerrr nvm....
''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''
Here's an interesting way to overcome Pascal's Wager.
If a hell exists, there's no valid reason to think that you would be more likely to go to it as an atheist than as a Christian.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
How do you know that if a hell exists, it is for anyone but christians?
Maybe there is a god that is really jealous, and when you die worshipping nothing gets you neither favor nor disfavor, but worshipping wrong gets you an eternity of watching Diff'rent Strokes.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
double post
Take a walk through Bedford/Stuyvesant Brooklyn at 3AM ...it will put your fear of Hell in proper perspective...
www.RichWoodsBlog.com
And if it is true that God hates liars, it's more likely you would go to hell being a phony Christian pretending to believe than an atheist.
The other problem is choosing which religion and which sect of that religion is going to give you the best odds.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I don't think many theists actually look forward to being with god. The churches know that a promise of seeing dead relatives and the threat of hell keeps people pretending to believe. It has already been said I if god Is omnipotent, surely he wouldn't be fooled by someone pretending to believe. You have been brainwashed from childhood to be controlled by guilt. Your feelings are a result of this. I completely agree that a little therapy would help "undo" what has been done. I still say religion is child abuse. i
"So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence." - Bertrand Russell
Stewie: Yay and God said to Abraham, "you will kill your son, Issak", and Abraham said, I can't hear you, you'll have to speak into the microphone." "Oh I'm sorry, Is this better? Check, check, check... Jerry, pull the high end out, I'm still getting some hiss back here."
Oh sweetheart...
You've been through a LOT, and it's no surprise that you're still having these feelings.
Just to briefly share my own personal experience, I was also raised in religion (Lutheran), although my family was not very strict or devout. However, it was important to my dad that I receive a religious education, so I spent most of my pre-college years in private religious schools. The first time I doubted God, the Bible, and Christianity as a whole, was when I was 6 years old after a Bible lesson regarding creationism. Honestly, it sounded like the most ridiculous fairytale I'd ever heard. But we were told we had to believe it, or else we'd go to hell. That fear of hell kept me going back to religion for the next 13 years. I kept switching back and forth - there is a God, there isn't a God. But every time I began to doubt, that fear of hell kept me going back.
I was 19 when I finally gave up religion for good, but for a good 6 months after my official switch, hell still haunted me sometimes. I think these are perfectly normal "side effects" of deconversion.
In many respects, you're lucky to have escaped religion at such a young age. Although the brainwashing you underwent is severe, at least you weren't exposed to it for longer - it could be worse. My advice is to stay grounded in reality. Remember: there's no PROOF for any of it. We don't have any evidence of a heaven or hell; we don't even have evidence of the existence of souls. But everything in your surroundings - you have evidence for that. At least you know that the things and people around you are real, because you can perceive them and interact with them. Focus on learning about the world (from a secular standpoint), focus on building relationships with people around you, and focus on bettering yourself and making the most of your life, regardless of whether anything will follow or not. It will take time but eventually you'll realize that those things are REAL, and heaven and hell are mere figments of the imagination; they pose no greater threat than any other myth, whether it be Zeus or the Easter Bunny.
Finally, some people have mentioned psychiatric help. You are quite young, so I would be hesitant to pursue this route just yet. You're in a much better situation, and are still adjusting to life without religion. See if things improve as a result of these changes first. Psychotherapy may be helpful in sorting out your feelings about all of this, but I'd hesitate in starting medication. If, in a year or so, you are still having issues, it may be a sign of anxiety disorder or post-traumatic stress disorder. Perhaps then a professional could prescribe you an appropriate medication. I myself have been through psychiatric issues (completely unrelated to my experiences with religion), and have been on anti-depressants (Prozac) for the past 3 months. The medication has improved my well-being tremendously, and I am absolutely for it if circumstances necessitate it. But my advice is to first allow yourself to adjust to your new life and continue making positive changes in your life, because you'll still have to do these things regardless. There's no "magic pill" that will make it all disappear, unfortunately.
Anyways, I hope some of this helps. Remember, we're all here for you, and many of us have been through similar problems. Don't hesitate to come here if you ever need support.
I've read everyone's comments here... and before I begin I want to say thanks for all your support...
I tried going to a counsellor before, and I got soooo frustrated because she had NO idea whatsoever what the hell I was on about, and so she told me stuff that wasnt even applicable to my situation...
I'm trying to take the time out to go back into the hebrew and greek dictionaries and find out whether or not it is the correct translation.. but every time I try and do a bit more research I just freak out reading about it...
I don't understand why I'm like this and struggling so much because I never had this trouble when I was at home (and by the way I've been away from home for 6 months on the 16 of June)..
Nothing makes any sense to me... I wish I could just get over it and get on with life but it doesn't seem to happen like that.
To make matters worse my physical condition is getting worse because of it.. because I don't have an appetite at the moment and i"m putting it down to this.. and it doesn't help that I"m semi anorexic... I got up to the right weight recently and now I'm losing weight again....
I don't know why I'm tormented with such mind games just because I'm no longer religous.. I can't succeed at anything in life and I won't be able to... its so discouraging and disheartening.
Just remember that the only reason you even heard of such a thing called hell is because some guys a couple thousand years ago wanted a laugh.
''Black Holes result from God dividing the universe by zero.''
Modulators, what about an Atheist pretending, who is a phony?
Nah, you've just been at it a long time and now you are free of it. That can be pretty scary. A sweeping change in world view is a startling thing. I would suggest keeping in mind that you don't need the answers to life's questions, you don't need to know what your "purpose" is, this is just life. It's great, and then it sucks, rinse and repeat
Have you considered reading one of the books by Hitchens, Harris, etc? They try to put things in perspective and it sounds like that might be what you're hunting for.
Best of luck bro.
I would like to offer you a technique that I have found to be extremely helpful in deprogramming my own mind from some of my religious indoctrination. It's a Buddhist meditation technique called "touch and go"
While it is Buddhist, it does not require any special belief except that one trusts the process, and stay curious about the outcome (but a palates class requires that)
OK, so here it is, very simple:
Find a quite place (personally, I like to lay in bed on a Saturday morning and do this sometimes).
Consider your own thoughts. Specifically, consider your thoughts about something that you don't believe in but that still has its grip on you emotionally.
Let's take hell for example:
So you lie there and think about hell. Let the thought of hell rise up in your mind. Don't force it, but just turn it over gently in your mind.
Notice that there are all kinds of emotions attached to this thought. Fear. Anger. Confusion. Whatever.
As those feelings well up, don't try to control them. Just touch into them, and let them go. Notice that they will rise up and they may become very intense at times. Notice that you can trust that they are impermanent. They will soon pass. Stay curious about your psychological/emotional process.
Don't force it. Don't cling to it. Don't push it away. Just stay curious and open, and notice your breathing. Breath awareness helps you to stay anchored in the here and now - there may be a tendency for your mind to try to slip off into fantacy. So stay with the feeling and notice your breath.
You may actually find that you become overwhelmed with emotion. Stay with it, and keep your curiosity engaged.
That's it. That's "touch and go"
When I did this practice with my own thoughts of hell, I found that I was terrified. I became overwhelmed by fear. But once I let that "overwhelm" happen, I was able to notice that all I was fearing was an idea. That there was nothing there to be afraid of. That it was my own mind that was creating my fears. I have never feared hell since.
This practice sounds "woo woo" but consider this - you are continuing to cling to psychological programs that you were taught when you held onto a false belief system. This is happening outside of your conscious volition (as most feelings do). What this shows is that there are unconscious processes that are at work in your mind. This practice is designed to bring them into consciousness so that you can make good decisions about them through the use of simple insight.
Try it. It worked for me.
Thanks for that idea....
THe thing that always happens to me is that I become overwhelmed with this fear of hell... it becomes impossible to control and understand.
Once all is done, I keep coming back to the conclusion that I was abused in order to scare me...
In a sentence: Religion is abuse. Nothing less, nothing more. Abuse.
If god is a god of love, why did he create hell?? Why would he even want to punish his own image and likeness just because they can't understand and beleive something that sounds soooo close to a fairy tale?
I try to reason logically like that.. but I can never satisfy myself to beleive it. It seems to good to be true that I have no basis on which to fear hell.. the one thing that clouds my childhood with despair and lonlieness... only because there was no god there to help me when I needed him the most.
He never proved himself when I needed him too. It doesn't make any sense. WHy have I dismissed the notion of a god, but find it impossible to throw off the notion of hell...
If none of this makes any sense to any of you, I'm just thinking out loud.. putting my thoughts on paper, in the open where hopefully someone can help me out.
I just recently renounced my faith as a christian as well about six months ago. I made a similar post called getting over the fear of hell. I will leave you a link at the bottom. You should read it. I think you will find our situations similar. Also other members left some really good responses on it. Take the time and check it out then tell me what you think. I consider myself a very normal intelligent person, even more so since I dumped religion. What you are going through is very normal and it goes away after time. Just keep researching the origins of religions and you will see that they are nothing more than fairy tales made up by those who fear death. I could go on for hours about why I dumped my religion. I will give you a few reasons why, maybe it will help you.
1. A church is nothing more than a business, the more members you have the more money the pastor gets. And how does this business keep its costomers? By scaring them with a fear of hell.
2. Jesus never said anything about building huge multimillion dollar buildings, in fact it goes against what he taught. Church is BS.
3. The only reason any of us believe in any religion is bc someone else ( another human not god) told us it was true. We are either told when we are small children or when we are going through a vurnerable time in our lives.
4. Seriously, do you have any other reason to believe it is true other than not upsetting your parents?
Check out the link, it will be worth your time.
P.S.
The fear goes away after a while.
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/16870
"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4