Captains trying to make a point, without actually making a point again... isnt she o_O?

So....how much more effective is it? And...why does it have to be mutually exclusive?

So then...why even make this thread? What is her point?

So you are saying you believe this would be easier to do than resolving the religion directly, and you believe it would be more effective.

In addition you believe that that somehow these things would address religious influence as well through unidentified natural means.

You don't have an opinion really on addressing religion and these things you listed.

This is still a lot of opinion. It is the same as saying "I feel like if we talk more, we will reach some kind of understanding!" It isn't based on anything but what you want to happen. When someone believes that others are not equal, you can't have your conflict resolution through contact hypothesis.

If you have a person that thinks all the inferior infidels need to be converted, and their society and government approves of this mentality, what is your solution?

Yo ass be trippin' dis whole thread, jack. Wazzup wit dat?

Where I live, the right-wing nutjobs are a minority (for now). They simply can't avoid interacting with "members of outgroups". It doesn't seem to do much for them. Their attitudes don't change. If anything, they become more extreme. Lately, they've been getting more popular too.

And I would like to see anyone try that little experiment in a highschool.

http://www.huludownloader.com/hulu-downloader/article-watch-hulu-videos.html

Shows you how to bypass all the US only restrictions on all websites, like Veoh and Hulu.

http://www.casttv.com/shows/30-days/same-sex-parenting/hpmdl71

See if that works.

It seems to be blocked from Canada.

This episode

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8521594972908795261

Seemed to have an effect on the Christian person. At the end he admits to being close minded

Listen to his speech at 41:30.

I tried to find the episode you referenced on google video, but no success. "/

Clock I think this episode is evidence for your point, but it is an isolated case and perhaps an example of how religious tolerance goes at a slow pace. But, I think history would definitely be on your side, since religious intolerance has existed for a long time (forever?). This historical fact, however, shouldn't sway us in trying to create more tolerant religious environment in the world. In my opinion, what Cpt_ is showing to us an on-going social experiment and in my opinion it's a little early to judge its outcome.

An isolated case? If it was an isolated case, then I wouldn't have to deal with my rights being restricted in this country. I run into these people every day, usually forcefully shoving their crap at others, no matter the disproval. They feel vindicated by their religion, so they don't care what anyone else thinks...everyone else is "lesser" to them. Frequently, even the law. I have heard more than one say things like "The laws of god are higher than the laws of man." That is especially terrifying to me, because I am one of the people they target.

When the religious influence directly causes this behavior, and they go to a church that preaches the "evils of homosexuality", then I see the best course of action being to remove that religious influence so they are not being taught to hate and discriminate. If you want to sit down with them and watch them be unwilling to change any views that they learned at their church, and ignore reality calling it a "test of faith" while falling back to their scripture, feel free. I don't see anything coming from it though. I certaintly would not view it as any kind of alternative to removing the source of the problem. The best you could hope for is pulling a few people off the fence.

I'm glad to hear that interaction and dialogue are working somewhere, and I have no doubt that something can be achieved like that.

But I still find that in some situations, where religion is involved, it simply doesn't work at all.

I've been going to school with third-generation muslim immigrant kids all my life. Every single aspect of their religion is tolerated and respected, but even the so-called "moderates" have no intention of responding in kind. When I came out in high school, I lost all my muslim friends. They won't even shake my hand anymore.

I'm in complete agreement with the above quoted responses from Cappy.

There's nothing you can "say"
to change the minds of those that view you as an inferior
subhuman. That is a matter for government, the courts, laws, and schools.

As we all know, such changes in others require decades, not A conversation, nor a pamphlet.

I don't envision the U.S. government is interested in an Atheist nation, nor are well over 90% of the pop.

In as much as equal rights are concerned, that was addressed above, re. the institutions involved.

As far as gays are concerned,
equal rights will NOT occur by attempting to Atheistize anyone.

If you want to talk about equal rights to the religious, then you're going to need to speak their language and refer to THEIR GOD AND THEIR BIBLES.

Change will DEFINITELY NOT occur by attempting to convince anyone that their is no god. As referred to by Cappy in her post referring to the "God Delusion".

The religious flock are for all intenive purposes, totally disinterestested in your / our Atheistic views, and that alone should tell you something.

CC, sounds to me like you're far more interested in expressing your hatred of religion and getting some "payback", rather than ACTUALLY professing ANY realistic agenda.

It would behove you to consider what you REALLY want, because your attitude and agenda do no show any constructive agenda towards gaining equal rights for gays, with regard to EVEN THOSE that ARE religious that WOULD even venture into an Atheist zone.

 Captain, I've read the Altmeyer study.  If you haven't read all of The Authoritarian Specter, you really should.  He gives some details of the study in that book, and that study is considered pretty revolutionary in sociology.

Basically, it works like this.  When RWAs (right wing authoritarians) are put in positions where they interact closely with homosexuals or other "out-group" members and become compatriots with them, their attitudes towards those members become less negative, although in very few cases did their attitudes shift entirely to positive.  I forget the numbers... it's been at least a decade, if memory serves, since I read it.  I do remember that it was pervasive.  It went well beyond statistically significant to the point of saying that it's pretty much predictable.

The flip side of this is how much exposure the RWAs had to the out-group members as opposed to the in-group members.  In other words, if their negative attitudes were frequently reinforced by interaction with the in-group, the amount of attitude change they experienced was significantly less (although still statistically significant) than when they were put in a position where the "out-group" was actually taking the place of an authority in some way or another.

To put this in religious context, it's basically what I've said in THIS ESSAY.   In a way, I'm kind of saying something like what you're saying.  The trick to deconverting a specific theist, or at least getting them to be more rational about their theism, is to change their environment so that they're around atheists who become the "in-group," such that any authoritarian tendencies they have will tend to lead them to bond with the new in-group -- non-theists.  (As you may or may not know, RWAs are highly likely to be moderately to significantly religious.)

Issues:

1] Only 14% of Americans and 17% of Canadians are atheist [Or at least report "no religion". It does not distinguish between atheists and non-practicing Theists], so that is far too small to affect the whole country. I don't think we Canadians need much help anyway.

So you can either:

a] Work on the getting a much higher number atheist and THEN addressing the contact hypothesis

or

b] Start the contact hypothesis now with Theists then address the Theist issue at your leisure after the main issue has been addressed.

2] RWA is a personality trait,  so guess what will happen if they bond to the new in-group? Yeah, in-group assholes.

on an ancedotal level, I've known some RWAs that were atheists, and if you think they're any more rational/less organized......

Cappy, lol to "a".

"a" could include the technique of "Subliminal Suggestion", or perhaps the untapped power of "Internet Hypnosis".

(I don't think it likely anyone here will ever lay claim to reasoning with an Evangelical to alter their vies on gods and religion. I should say, any honest person here.)

BTW. At least Canada has some form of patially socialized medicine. That is just one example of something very significant that Canada and a number of other developed countries are light years ahead of us in the U.S.

Thanks for the vid. I thoroughly enjoyed it despite the fact that the lady was a champion of prejudice and closed mindedness. This is a perfect example of everything I hate about religious faith. The lady refused to budge even when faced with a mountain of opposing evidence.