non-scripture quotes.
Posted on: June 13, 2009 - 10:46am
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non-scripture quotes.
Anyone ever get into a debate and hear some quotes over and over again that are not even in the bible? When I ask a christian why a god of love would send his children to an eternal hell, I always get the same response of " god does not send us, we send ourselves." As a former christian for 25 years I have also used that same quote. And now that I think about it I don't think that is even in the bible, does anyone know for sure if it is or not. Furthermore does anyone have any other quotes that are used freqently but not even scripture?
"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4
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Also note that abortion isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible. At least not in the sense of "Thou shalt not commit abortion."
I do seem to recall something about killing women with child since they're not virgins, and not good enough for raping. But maybe I'm mistaken about that. It's been many years since I cracked a bible.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
I get the "God helps those who help themselves" thrown at me from time to time. On the surface, striking inanity, if you help yourself, you don't need God's help. Not only isn't this in the bible (to my knowledge), but it strikes me as completely unbiblical. The (supposed) whole reason for the bible is that people can't help themselves. They revel in sin, and need God/Jesus to save them.
From what I recall, there is a similar bit in the OT about killing all the women of a defeated city who had been with men. All the remaining females were of course, subject to raping. Although I always assumed that whomever wrote that bit was aware that one does not usually get VD from virgins.
Then too, Christians love to make shit up and pass it off as relevant. On that point, it is worth noting that the concept of a really static bible is only a bit over 500 years old. Prior to that time, books were copied by hand and any mistakes that were made in the process would tend to get preserved when someone copied that copy. In fact, considering the tendency to make shit up, it was not exactly uncommon for scribes to add stuff or even just change what was already there because it sounded good at the time.
A good read on that is the book “Misquoting Jesus” by Bart Erhman. Apparently, the story about “Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone” has never been found in any manuscript that can be dated as prior to the tenth century.
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I've found that a lot of people, when discussing Satan, are actually drawing from Paradise Lost.
Milton, eh.
I prefer South Park.
Needless to say cloning is not mentioned. But to stay on topic not one word about a soul that I can recall but certainly not a word on when it enters the body which is the whole issue of abortion. Not to suggest they had the slightest idea of what was going on in the good old days. Seems the man "implanted" miniature humans in the fertile field of the woman therefore they were always alive. And good woman was good soil. This is roughly the analogy of planting good seed in good or bad soil. There is a whole parable on it and this is most likely what it was originally supposed to be about.
There is a virgin thing on killing everything but those which had not known man, real virgins. Else the risk of polluting the race with the child of a non-chosenites.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
It is an amusing exercise to eliminate from the religion things which are not in the bible. I once had a believer tell me Jesus didn't have time to explain everything. I suggested he would have prioritized and said the most important things. That makes any believer who has been in management stop and think. And no place are there campfire chats where he gives out the lowdown.
The easiest answere is "Jesus didn't say that." 9 times out of 10 you are right. And in that 1 out of 10 look to the exact words and you can likely go for 10 out of 10. In other words he was as silent on adultery and prostituion as he was on unclean food. Going to hell? There are enough conflicting attributed statements that you can make anything you want of them. But the reasons for "going to hell" are all over the map in the NT and the entire constellation of sins is a deranged afterthought of Christianity. Go/No Go, i.e. mortal sin, is not among them. Suicide is not mentioned.
No mention of priests or ministers or congregations but there is a prohibition against praying in public. If the whole town shows up on church on Sunday that is about as public as you can get. Add Sunday or any day or any regular anything as extra-biblical.
And of course the whole Trinity thing and all the man/both/both/neither variations have no direct support.
But if you have a believer in Jesus as god you can ask why the major divisions in Christianity were not dealt with openly and clearly.
It is also interesting to look at this entire concept of sin. The ancient world did not have it. The only way to offend a god was public insult. The gods did not care in the least about human behavior except for blasphemy directed at themselves. There was a bit about a wrathful god visiting plaque on a town for the actions of individuals so the first requirement was everyone go do something appropriate in a temple but that was about it. Think about it though. No sin. No guilt. And no gods knowing your every thought and act. No code of behavior from the gods at least although a Roman had to live to the ideals of Rome, a Greek to Greece and so forth. It was all a matter of personal honor. More like what we consider patriotism.
The bottom line is the Christian god and the earlier Jewish god differed from the other gods by offering a quid pro quo of following spelled out rules to get on their good sides. Problem is those gods were as arbitrary and capricious as the other gods leading to all kinds of "mysterious ways" explanations to avoid reconciling the preachings with reality.
But at the bottom line we find Jesus is no more than a hood ornament for a religion that has no resemblence to what he supposedly taught.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
In fact just about everything taught about heaven hell and neglected purgatory are from Dante. He crystalized the mythology of the time and it became essential source material for priests and preachers.
"Men of god always make people feel judged and guilty."
--Malcolm Reynolds
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
I was always taught that suicides go to hell. Of course I never saw that anywere in the book. I think everyone has heard that sex before marriage is a sin, but I have never seen that either, especially in the NT. I could be wrong about that not being in there but I have looked for it and never found a verse stating that sex before marriage is wrong. I was even told that it was a sin for a white person to be with a black person. To me that is rediculous bc we are all mixed with different races.
"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4
The bible word is adultery. It has a meaning and is not subject to interpreted translation like thou shalt not kill/murder. And the word adultery only applies to the married partner. For a fact, when the bible was written, in fact at any time more than two centuries ago the time between wanting to have sex and being married was quite short with most women married by age 15. Sex before marriage was not very common for lack of time enough to learn to outwit parents.
The whole race mixing thing is of course pure invention. Jesus looked like Arafat not like Netanyahu. The Palestinians are Judeans who converted to Islam. That is not a secret. It is just a denied fact. And Jesus was a Jew and never ceased to be a Jew according to the gospels.
The whole race discussion is complicated by all kinds of absurd ideas and in the last paragraph I used two of them. Either of them can start a fight with Baptists. Jews are not a race or an ethic group. They are only a religion. From the past we can ask Sammy Davis Jr. or the recently ordained black woman rabbi if Jews are a race and if so, which race are they.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
The whole inter-racial thing was purely a product of my parents at the time. My father was very racist against blacks when I was younger, I believe due to his upbringing. Fortunately he has changed a lot. I bet anyone who was raised in the south by a religious family has heard the same thing.
"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4
Oh, this one's definitely in there.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
The closest the bible comes to saying anything about abortion is in Exodus:
"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine." 21:22
If the authors of the OT thought abortion was murder, the penalty would unconditionally be death.
-Triften
Actually the race in the real meaning of the word as in Caucasian, Negroid, Mongoloid and such it a product of the Age of Exploration. Before that very few people traveled great distances and those who were only a short difference away were not that different in culture and social norms. So Europeans could meet all kinds of Blacks but from Muslim north Africa which was ahead of or equal to Europe in culture before exploration started.
With exploration Europeans could meet the most primitive Blacks. As exploration paid off with the development of a society paid for with the gold of others it became obvious to the Europeans that they were superior. In fact they were culturally superior to the most primitive without question. Translating that to innately superior was the conceit that became ingrained in the US where in fact there were different races, Caucasian, Negoid, Amerind, which were the basis for the belief. Any White questioning it only had to look at the other races and see it was obvious.
Europe's idea of races including the English, Scot, Irish, French, German and other races. This idea was still going strong in Europe after WWII. It did not discredit the idea of nationalities as races. The war only showed the Germans were wrong about themselves.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Another time when I was debating a christian about why a loving god allow us to be born even if he knew our eternal fate in hell I got the answer of " god uses some of us a examples for others" First off that is nowhere in the bible and second it is just the worst answer I think I have ever heard. So this loving god loves us so much that he choses some of us to go to hell to serve as examples for others.
1. How could it be an example if no one ever gets to see anyone in hell,
2. I would hate to be one of the examples, bc there is nothing you can do.
"Take all the heads of the people
and hang them up before the Lord
against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4