Um... Isn't that what a dream is? I'm begining to wonder if I might be a prophet since I have "visions" on a nightly basis. Just the other night I had this vision that I was getting busy with Sara the hot bartender. Well, who am I to question these visions that are bestowed upon me? So the next time I saw her, I asked her out. Could you believe that she actually denied my advances. If it were any other time I would simply accept the rejection as is and move on, but we're dealing with prophecy here and I'm obviously being tested so I will continue to pursue this quest regardless of the restraining order! I may end up spending a few nights in jail as a result, but that only means that I would have plenty of time during my persecution to write a book telling everyone how to live their life.

Who's with me?

So Luminon, since you seem to know about this stuff, does that tell you anything about me? If so, what would that be?

 

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

So Luminon, since you seem to know about this stuff, does that tell you anything about me? If so, what would that be?

 

Well, it doesn't say anything. People do such activities in astral realm all the time. It's a kind of playing, learning, quests, or something like that. It's practically a second life. Some people attend schools in astral realm, and even pass exams there. (or fail) I personally often have dreams about various tasks, like finding someone or something, escorting someone to another place, exploration, or advices to people. Such a dreams doesn't say anything specific about you. (unless you're a fan of Tom Clancy)

aiia wrote:

Prove an 'astral realm' exists.

How, without a damn good technology? Scientists haven't even discovered the etheric half of dense-physical realm, yet. Reputedly, neutrino light is astral light. But astral technology would have to manage extremely small wavelengths and high frequencies. In rare cases, communication from astral realm may get caught on tape recorders or radio receivers, but these are rather coincidences.
You could be perhaps interested in the research of spiritists in 19th and early 20th century. They were quite succesful in contacting astral realm. This is not what we do here, on the contrary, we try to build our own resistance to the astral influences, so I won't elaborate much on it. The correct approach to astrality is through science, technology and higher realms, any other approach puts people into disadvantage.

 

Reiki healing technique and Tesla's "tachyonic" tablets take their energy from some higher astral level, probably 6th. I'd gladly post the link on the tablets' homepage, but it's a bit obscure website in German language from the Swiss manufacturer.

Scientists haven't even discovered the etheric half of dense-physical realm, yet.

The Doomed Soul wrote:

DamnDirtyApe wrote:

Luminon, I sell a very high quality tiger repellent.  Just in case you need some.

Ah? Lummy doesnt want a chain-gun... me on the other hand, I'LL TAKE IT!

 

Doomy, by the time the chain gun sped up, that tiger would be on you.  I'd recommend something more manageable.  A Holland and Holland in .375, maybe.

Better said, they discovered some space radiation and rare particles (like antimatter), which are etheric, but that's not the whole image yet. An example of etheric technology are Wilhelm Reich's cloudbusters, orgone batteries, and so on. I also suspect that free energy generators also belong to that list. I have studied their function and I'm nearly sure about it.

Please, stop that, it's silly. If you didn't notice, I count to the etheric realm also the antimatter...

and the newly discovered space radiation. My information is, that this space radiation, six times stronger than scientists expected it to be, is most probably identic with the 'orgone' of Wilhelm Reich. But now someone else has the credit.
My information is, that ether does exist according to certain scientific experiments. The Michelson-Morley experiment was deeply flawed. The Silvertooth experiment got it right. A similar mechanism was already made in 1913, in Sagnac experiment. This effect is so useful, that till this day it's used in airplane traffic to show the plane's movement.
Also, I have read some underground science articles who use your definition to dismiss things like theory of relativity or big bang theory. They would all deeply insult in what you believe.

Yes, and I ignored it because anti-matter is a feature of the physical world and nothing to do with the "ether".

It's identic with orgone?  Orgone being the all-prevading life-force tied deeply into Riech's beliefs as well as holding a similar position to Freuds ideas of sexual urge being the driving force of all life? That orgone?  You're equating this with a new "space radiation" (please clarify this - provide a link to what you're talking about) so the all-pervasive driving force for life only exists in space?  Interesting.

And please explain how the Michelson-Morley experiment was deeply flawed, and so so in a manner that wouldn't make a physicist laugh.

Then prove it.  If they're physical there must be a way to test for them.  Tell me what it is so that I might try it for myself.

 

I'm not saying that Wikipedia is an outstanding academic resource, but the comments on orgone hardly seem critical.  The article reads quite objectively actually.  And I wasn't saying it was all about sex.  Reich saw it as an omni-present force - but the theory had its beginnings in what he understood to be libido.

I've had a look at those videos.  They don't prove anything other than some pointed an "orgonite" device at the sky on a clear day.  There's absolutely no evidence that the device is responsible for that clear sky.  Not only that but they admit that time-lapse imagery is used so the disappearing vapour trails from the planes are more likely to be completely natural.  It's a pretty clear sky in Glasgow today.  I could go out and make that same video by pointing my hand, my foot, or the can of deodorant at my side at the sky and get the same result.  It wouldn't mean anything.

Could you point me towards these equations?  Is there a link somewhere?  You still haven't explained what this space radiation is and I'm becoming highly skeptical - though willing to be convinced with evidence - now that you've mentioned one Benjamin Creme.  The same Ben Creme that heard in 1959 that the Christ would appear 20 years later?  Making it 1979?  And then told the world that the Christ would appear in 1982, and when he didn't it was because "the time wasn't right"?  Of course.  And when Uri Geller can't bend spoons under test it's because the "energies" aren't right.

Benjamin Creme is not a good man to reference when it comes to scientific theories.  I was born in Glasgow too.  I know the special breed of lunatic that comes out of this city.

  Oh, I'm sorry, I must not have been clear.  I said I wanted an explanation of the experiment's flaws that wouldn't make a physicist laugh.

1.  Silvertooth's work has been shown repeatedly to be highly questionable.  He matched his data to observe anisotropies in the CMB to show that the aether was present... except these anisotropies are easily explained using the standard models of cosmology.

  2.  The difference between the speed of light in vacuum and in atmosphere is negligible - air/vacuum value is 0.9997 if I remember correctly.  If the angle of incidence in vacuum was 45^o the angle of incidence in atmosphere would be 44.83^o. In other words it can be ignored.

3.  The value for refraction would only matter if the light was travelling from vacuum to atmosphere at any point during the experiment.  It wasn't so your point is... well... pointless.

4.  The Michelson-Morley experiment has been repeated many many times, using far more advanced equipment and much greater understanding of physics than either man was fortunate enough to have.  Guess what?  Still no ether.

 

All this is is evidence that there are 1000's of deluded people. I knew that already.

Thats right and so are you; either that or you are fucking lying piece of shit. 

People talking shit and believing shit proves people believe shit; that's all it proves. It does not prove that what they believe is true nor does it prove that what they report is true nor does it even mean that it is evidence of what they believe.

Cough up some scientific data or go fuck yourself

The easiest way I know is Transmission Meditation, it makes people feel the etheric energy on their own body. Sooner or later, for some people immediately, sometimes after a couple of years of attending the meditation. In my case, I always had that kind of sensitivity.

At least 3 people would be the better, but we received a positive feedback also from individuals and couples.

However, to that meditation also may belong a device called Tetrahedron. People receive the energies and step it down. Tetrahedron steps them down even more. Within, it contains silver and gold discs, crystal and magnet. From each disc there leads a silver and gold wire, which the meditating men and women hold. An colleague of our local club had been in Belgium for a meditation with the tetrahedron. She held the wire, and it became so hot by the flowing energy, that she had a red lines on her hands for several days.

As for the planes, I usually see a trails which cross all the sky from horizon to horizon, even if the plane is long gone. I haven't ever seen them disappearing so quickly behind the plane, as it is in that video.

(the "equating" was meant as "saying this is that", not as a mathemathical equation) 

This space radiation was discovered last year by the american astronomers from the ARCADE project, at NASA center in Texas. It is an electromagnetic radiation, radio waves, better said. It is an electromagnetic "noise", which had not been identified with any known source.

As for the Teacher, there are thousands of reports from the world of people who had met him, there are photographs, news reports, and also previously unimaginable plethora of various symbollic signs, both religional and non-religional. There are also appeared many healing water springs. A water from them is said to have a special physical properties - it is somewhat lighter than a normal water.

As for the public appearing of the Teacher, it's not as easy, as you imagine. In fact, it's unimaginably diffcult. Tthe resistance is fierce and persistent. Opportunity after opportunity went in vain, because of a synchronized counteractions of the opposing side. For example, the 1982 was a great opportunity, but at the same moment, the Falkland war of Argentina and USA started. In that situation, public response would have been negative to the Teacher's arrival. There is a counteraction to everything he does.

However, there is a great hope placed in the upcoming financial crisis. A worldwide crash of this unfair pyramid lottery called "global economy" expected in 2009 is the most promising future opportunity I know of.

Silvertooth's work is repeated in every device employing the Sagnac effect, yet nobody notices that. What are the standard cosmologic explanations for this effect? Also, what about the phase lock of beams, occuring in MM interferometer? Is there any?

I have an article by one engineer. He made two MM experiments, one with Jamin's compensator and the other with a specially pressured and heated air tube. I will now translate his verdict from Slovak language:

It ensues from these two basic measurings with interferometer, that with validity of Snell's law, mathemathically calculated shift of interference stripes is the same as a shift measured on the interferometer. This total agreement of mathemathical calculation and measured data is the proof of Snell's law for the measuring with interferometers.

When we chose the speed of light as c (as it is in description of MMX) there is no shift of interference stripes ensuing from calculation for both measurings. With choice of light speed in both beams of interferometer as c, the effect of refraction index change is excluded, as it is not present in the equations.

This difference between mathemathical calculation and measured shift of interference stripes proves a big mistake in the description of MMX. The contraction of lengths, derived from the description of MMX, is also a mistake.

As I understand it, it does matter a lot, if the changed light speed is used in calculations.

often felt pulses within the head, much faster than heartbeat. However, this all stops if a person loses focus on the forehead. I don't believe that it is possible to simulate these physical feelings so easily, and besides that, nobody has a time for it, because they must concentrate on the forehead. I doubt that anyone can simulate feelings according to their will, specially when they're not even trying it.

Of course, this one is a sham and it's not even a tetrahedron, it's a pyramid. The original tetrahedrons are entirely different and built by the group, probably for a much smaller price for raw materials.

And a better video would work? It didn't, last time. Nothing can convince you, only a physical demonstration of that device. You see what the coach skepticism is good for. There's no chance unless you sit in a car and visit someone who has the cloudbuster.

This is only a sign, that esoteric theory is compatible with this discovery, just like Mendelejev's periodic table of elements was not made obsolete with a discovery of new elements.

Maybe when you and I will read closely A Treatise on Cosmic Fire, we will see that it is not ambiguous, nor ill-defined. It is necessary to find parallels between scientific and esoteric terminology, because the esoteric science is far ahead in theory, though not in technology.

Only since recently we are advanced enough to recognize some things, like String theory, which was discovered 80 years earlier by esotericists. And the existence of "dark matter" in it's true ratio to visible matter was known in various teachings of the history, as it is also documented in this article.

More recently the discovery of vast spherical energy auras, which totally encircle the galactic disc, indicates the presence of a large mass of dark matter and dark energy outside the galactic nucleus. Dark energy is a hypothetical form of energy which permeates all of space and has strong negative pressure, which explains the accelerating expansion of the universe. It is a relatively new concept that forms part of the "Standard Model", which states that the universe is composed of approximately 4% visible matter, 23% dark matter and 73% dark energy. This dark matter and energy is the energy-matter of the aforementioned higher planes of Hindu and Buddhist cosmologies and the hidden spatial dimensions of string theory.

I don't know. So far, the development in science followed the schemes of esoteric cosmology.

I should ask you what happens, if I can explain why there is 94% of the universe which you can't see.

However, do you want to deny the close entanglement between science and the world of big money, corporate and political interests?

No, there is only one explanation, but perhaps expressible in several equivalent ways. The trick is to translate the already existing esoteric explanations into the language of science and technology.

The following quote is from this link: http://www.share-international.org/archives/healing_water/hw_bshealing.htm

As he was saying from the beginning, he doesn't come to save the world. He comes to tell us how we can save it, but we must do the work, it's to save our asses after all, not his. He offers all the know-how we will need and advice on everything we ask, if we ask, because he's a Teacher. The problem is, that we must first ask. And you know that our political leaders, economists, religional leaders and other so-called experts are especially confused and helpless in these times. But he can not come uninvited. He was already invited into the world, but not yet to appear publically in media.

The mysterious "Other side"? I only know about some of them - the gang from Wall Street, those who own American and global banking system, mass media owners, military chiefs, and so on, everyone who we didn't have a chance to vote for, and yet they set the world's heartbeat and control at least 50% of global wealth and finances.

he Teacher needs to be invited by the whole world, otherwise it would be no invitation. But the only thing able to represent the global opinion is the mass media network. In 1982 the media's attention was fully caught by the war of Argentina and USA. The Teacher decided not compete for a piece of the people's divided attention, this was supposed to be a great arrival on the first pages. And so, the opportunity was gone. There are currently new plans and methods, like the gradual emergence in media, in anonymity. When the financial crisis will continue and get much stronger, he can get an attention of media as a new, original advisor for the crisis.

I can, but that very question is meaningless.

With all respect, you will need to get some more information on this topic. Firstly, you will need to read an article by David Korten, called Why this crisis may be our best chance to build a new economy. Secondly, you need to watch the film called Money as Debt. (MAD) And thirdly, a short but important film called Story of Stuff. (SOS)

Well, sure the light doesn't have the same velocity, but why in MM experiment it has?

I have read the articles for possible explanations. But surely I've got quite a goulash in that topic, because of the competing scientific paradigms, the underground and the official.

I'm a layman in that topic, you know. I am interested in the research of ether, because I'm one of many who are physically aware of it, every day, for all my life. I have seen many times that ether exists, this is out of discussion, now the question is about the scientific definition. I can show you the way to the controversial articles and you can tell me where they are wrong, or right.

Yeah. But seriously, I don't know what to think about the relativity theory. If you get a chance to read the following articles, you will find it pretty much under attack.

The article is from the local WM Magazine. I have received it for years, but many of the articles are online. They are in such a weird web interface, showing one article at a time. The articles in the science and technics section are here. The article I meant is on the first page called OMYL FYZIKY: Michelson-Morleyho experiment (The error of physics: MM E)

But your colleague should also be able to read the articles in Czech language, it's very similar. Other interesting articles may be "Důkaz existence éteru" (the proof of ether's existence) on page 2 and many other iconoclastic articles which slander Einstein, Higgs boson, LHC, and so on. " Elektrický vesmír" (electric universe) may also be interesting for you. I'm seriously considering the electric unvierse hypothesis instead of the standard model, you know.

You forgot what countries. One of them was USA, the big, mean, nuke-wielding global badass. It wouldn't be a good start to enter the global scene and yell "Hey, you back there, USA and Argentina! Silence, I've got something to say!" Such a scenes undermine one's authority.

No, that's like 10 Hz at least. But usually it's so quick, that it sounds like an air hissing under pressure. The heartbeat works independently. Sometimes it's unnoticeable and sometimes it's beating a lot, but it's always much slower and easy to distinguish. And sometimes there comes that beautiful feeling of peace and tranquility, which we all meditators love

I think they can't, except by hypnosis. Hypnosis is sub-conscious. Conscious perception always tries to see things as they are. But here the consciousness itself is a tool. The mind is a less or more controlled force affecting the body, and just like you can pinch yourself to feel something in return, I can stimulate some my chakra to feel something in return. Therefore, it is not a simulation of feelings, it is an affection of body, which produces the feelings afterwards.

I'll try to explain. When people do T. Meditation, they receive spiritual energy and they step it down. When there is more than 6-7 people meditating, men and women should sit in separate groups, because the energy they receive is individual and further differentiated according to gender.

There are two wires going out of the tetrahedron, gold and silver. All men hold one wire, and all women hold the other. The energy goes through the wires.
You can find the most information by examining the free meditation handbook. You can find a lot of the 'tetrahedron' keywords and related information in the text. There is some interesting information, for example, that people should not sit in front of the gold disc within the tetrahedron, because this is where the output of energy (beam) is. I know from my own experience that excessive playing with spiritual energy can make people feel rather bad.

I hope this video is better. I couldn't find it before. However, there is no airplane, it's with a clouded sky.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqo01z_KJM&feature=related

Well, and so the esoteric theory predicts the discovery of new states of matter and new kinds of energy, arranged by their  frequencies in octaves. It also predicts the existence of life forms based on that matter. But so far, nobody I know of tried to interpret the discoveries in terms of these octaves. Electromagnetic spectrum is a good candidate for start.

The humanity is still not mature. In past ages, most of people were busy with material world and esoteric knowledge was kept secret. Now it's available freely in most of bookstores and the technology starts to be efficient and sensitive enough to detect even some less material phenomena. But it's only the beginning. From the point of view of esoteric history, the world just begun to be interesting.

All right. The esotericist Alice Bailey created a cosmologic scheme. It consists of 7 realms (octaves) with 7 sub-realms, 49 in total. The lowest three sub-realms are called solid, liquid and gaseous, and they're the representation of our visible world. The rest of the world has higher vibration and therefore is invisible to us. Now, let's compute 3/46, which gives a result of about 6%, which is not terribly different from the 4% which is the current scientific opinion on approximate amount of visible matter/energy in the universe.

I don't know if that hypothesis is testable, but I'll try. All matter can be expressed as a wave function. A function with certain frequency of waves. Not all matter has the same frequency. The frequencies of matter are arranged in "octaves", each with 7 tones, and between octaves there is a gap in frequency.

Matter is mostly empty. It can collide with other matter, because their electrons repel each other. But a difference in vibration of the atom disables the collisions, and the atoms pass through each other freely. This is why there may be other items, even whole worlds on this very place, but they're invisible. This would also explain the energy in every cubic milimeter of vacuum, which is immense.

And now the interesting part. Every life form must be less or more based on the matter with higher vibration, rather than lower. A living being lives primarily in form of the matter of higher vibration, than dense-physical. The more evolved the being is, the higher octaves of matter does it include. And when a being dies, the remaining higher part continues to live for some time. This is the potential explanation for the ancient notions of afterlife and spiritual worlds.
Also, with more control on higher octaves, there are new abilities - better emotions, greater intellect, and even intuition. Living in higher octaves is easier and different, because the time and space are more relative there and entropy is much lesser. However, it presents relatively few opportunities for work, learning and development. This is one of reasons why the life decides - or is decided, to undertake the diffculties of dense-physical form, live, die, and again.

That's not esoterics, that's simply a scam. Esoterics is represented by strictly non-profit volunteer organizations like Alice Bailey's Arcane School. No real esotericists do it for money (though they must know how to use money correctly), neither they claim about themselves that they are initiates of any degree. This is the same problem as with science and pseudoscience.

Even if I won't say that science is corrupt, everything around it is, and it surely influences the science. If you want some real example, think of the stem cell research. Economic, politics, business, military, and so on. People everywhere are known to be potentially corruptable, specially in my country. I don't know why priests should be exempted, and why scientists should be exempted.

Truthfulness of this message is somewhat uncertain. Look at the review of that place by Gill Fry, the professional nurse. It's described quite differently. Also, the water is described as 'totally clean and pure', no sodium and magnesium bicarbonate is reported. Processing about 200-400 hectolitres per day, all the pipes would soon have to be stuffed with bicarbonate. No massive filter or distiller is described there, so they're not even trying to clean the water - it is already pure.

The truth wouldn't shine out, because it can only do so through mass media, which were always very hostile to that kind of message. Without them, the humanity as such is blind and deaf.

I have heard them called recently the "shadow government". But who are they? You want me to know the greatest secret of the world? Well, I'm the guy who know the sense of life, but that's too much. Surely, we can speculate about people like Warren Buffet, Rupert Murdoch or some of the Rockefellers, but we can never be sure. But there is something I am sure about. I'm sure that they're not Masons (Masons are my fellow colleagues in esotericism), and they're not lizard people. (though maybe they made the lizards up) Our whole civilization is designed in such a way, that majority of global wealth and power is concentrated in very few hands. The system is designed in such a way, that the poor are made poorer, and the rich are still fewer and richer. There are billions of people who have nothing, but their wealth didn't went missing. It ended up under control of a few anonymous people, far from the reach of media, politics, police or military. Remember, governments are ruled by banks, and banks are ruled by one central bank. And who controls the central bank? There inevitably must be someone.

Right.  But it's about us too, this is something that can't be done without our participation. The plan is to inform and inspire people in such a way, that they will rise and change the world. In some parts of the world this is already happening and Share International takes care to bring regularly the articles and reports on that topic.

You're playing with words. The coverage of global media is already sufficient. Indigenous people will be left alone to make up their mind later.

The time was right after WW2, and the discovery of nuclear bomb. But the war wasn't won completely. A part of it relocated to the middle East and eastern Europe, and part of it transformed into economic and ideologic competition. Soon it became obvious, that if we don't change ourselves radically, we will inevitably destroy ourselves by global pollution, depletion of resources, climate change and nuclear war.

The difference of the global economic collapse should be obvious. Quoting you, Its total collapse will still plunge the world into misery and people will be as desperate and distracted as they were during a war that didn't affect them, even more so in fact. There is something you seem to miss out. The world is already in misery. There is a catastrophe happening every moment. Tenths millions of people die every year for trivial reasons and by very unpleasant death, leaving the others to live in still worse conditions. And on the other side of the world, there live people who waste so much, that they would need several more planets to keep their style of living. Knowing that, the global financial collapse will not be a catastrophe. There will not even be anything bad about it. It will be a wake up call, a call to wake up, or die.  It is the best thing, that can happen. It has a chance of awakening the people to global responsibility, to make them refuse the blind evil of market forces which does lead us to the verge of self-destruction.

Why not? I've read an article which was entitled like "People are searching for 'the guy' to fix the economy." But he's the teacher in broadest sense, he can and will give advice on anything, from family and neighbour relations, to international relations. Some parts of his teaching have already been published and complemented by analogous opinions from various experts and politicians.

If I remember, MM experiment didn't produce the interference pattern. So the light had the same velocity.

The behavior of estabilishment is something I don't want to discuss too closely while we sit in the middle of it. Our family had already noticed some unwanted and undeserved interest. And we're just a small civil association. I wouldn't want to know what happens to those who threaten the global economic and politic status quo.

All right, so where the vacuum energy, permitivity and permeability? They are far from zero values. What else than ether could it be?

I don't know. I had read an argument against relativity, but it was so simple and impertinent, that I can't believe that scientists could fall for it. I'll have to find some time to read that article again and then read the Wikipedia article again, and then I will know better what I don't know. And I've got a lot of other things to do.

Excellent. I hope he will enjoy the reading, it's quite interesting.

But you're still not saying anything that convinces me that the sensations experienced aren't just natural occurences of the body.... maybe it's one of these things you have to try. Have any of these meditations been performed under controlled conditions? Studied by psychologists? Doctors?

So why couldn't the meditation sensations be a form of self-hypnosis then?

I'll take time to look at the book you linked to, but I've not found any other reference to the type of tetrahedron you seem to be discussing. When I search for "tetrahedron meditation" I get lots of hits for the Merkabah (sp?) technique which seems to be espoused by followers of your "teacher". I will warn you though, your description makes it sound like a lot of pseudo-scientific bunk.

Luminon wrote:

I hope this video is better. I couldn't find it before. However, there is no airplane, it's with a clouded sky. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqo01z_KJM&feature=related

Sorry Luminon, but this doesn't cut it. I admire the fact that they've put a time and date on there but... It takes over an hour for anything to happen, including the set-up of the orgnoite device. Are you suggesting that cloud cover couldn't clear in that time? The time taken falls perfectly within a natural time scale so if the device is having an effect it's indistinguishable from a natural cause.

Also I note whenever the cameraman pans up from the device to a hole in the cloud cover it's never in a straight line. He's always rotating/angling away from the vertical position of the device. So it doesn't affect the clouds above it, but slight to the side? If you're going to say that the original part of broken cloud moved with the cloud then why don't we see a trail through the clouds where the device is pointing?

Also, what the hell is the wire connected to?

The reason no one has tried to interpret discoveries in terms of these octaves is because all discoveries have fit very well into the testable standard model. Just in case you start to bring string theory and its higher dimensions into this - so far string theory has no testable predictions either. Until you can make a testable prediction with a theory then its validity is always questionable. It's that simple. I hold string theory in higher regard than esoterics because it has a mathematical basis in its physics and at least makes attempts to show where all of its ideas come from.

So esoteric science is just getting started but it's miles ahead of other theories? Er...... what?

So when you made the claim that "the ratios were as predicted by..." why didn't you link me to this woman rather than a website that had none of the information on it? If you're going to make a claim and then provide references at least make sure the references are actually what you're talking about.

It's a nice coincidence (sort of) but it doesn't hold water, and here's why. * The current breakdown of matter in the universe is as follows: 74% dark energy, 22% dark matter, 3.6% intergalactic gas, 0.4% stars and everything else. If we take intergalactic plus stars as 4% we have 3 different groups - or "realms" - of matter to consider, not 7. You're not allowed to just suggest that the others "just haven't been discovered yet" as you've not provided reasoning or proof for the original numbers (nor has Alice Bailey).

* The states of matter which can contribute to our visible world - off the top of my head - are: solid, liquid gas, liquid crystal, super-critical fluid, super fluid, bose-einstein condensate, plasma, fermionic condensate and degenerate matter. Not quite the 3 sub-realms she's talking about are they?

Not only that but I'm pretty sure that if Alice Bailey had predicted 300 sub-realms, thus making the solid-liquid-gas trio 1% of the total mix, the claim would then be "Alice Bailey was able to predict that there are other states of matter beyond those we can perceive in the physical world" and the number would be ignored. She'd be forgiven for saying 1% rather than 4 because it's not an exact science, or the energies were off... or some other hand-waving, after the fact claim.

And to add something else to the mix - Dark Matter is the sexy subject of cosmology at the moment. It accounts for a lot of what we see in the universe and is, by and large, becoming a majority position (from what I can see). BUT there are other theories out there using modifications of gravity and quantum mechanic effects to explain what we see. Observational evidence for dark matter - like high numbers of WIMPS passing by - is currently thin on the ground so, technically, these other theories still stand a chance of usurping dark matter. If that does happen then your friend Alice will have a lot of explaining to do.

If it's not testable then it's not a good hypothesis. Just so you know. I'm not a physicist but from the get go I could say two things. First, you need a better defenition of these octaves - what are the frequency ranges of the octaves? How are they distinguished?

How do you explain the frequency gap? Why doesn't energy occupy these empty spaces?

For the record, an octave is an 8 point scale. Any musician or linguist would be able to tell you that (Octavus = eight, Octava dies = eighth day, verse sense = stanza of eight lines)

Differences in "vibration" cause things to boil or freeze luminon*. Atmoic vibrations are tied to the movement of electrons and molecular bonds. Changes in these vibrations alter physical properties but they wouldn't allow whole-scale transformation into other energies. It doesn't allow phasing or inter-dimensional travel, not matter how much t it to.

Nothing you've just said here means anything. What does evolution have to do with these ill-defined higher octaves? I'm willing to put money on this being tied to the mistaken idea that Evolved = Better. This is blatantly untrue. Evolved = changed with time. Nothing more.

Youv'e no evidence of a "higher part" to any matter as you've yet to define these octaves and how they interact with each other. Couple with the lack of understanding of vibrations in molecules I've yet to see any evidence to back up your claim that life "must be less or more based on the matter with higher vibration".

Better emotions? Really? Are our emotions bad? How do we define better than love or lust?

Time and space are more relative? You've just won the prize for the most ridiculous statement ever. Have a cookie. Please explain how things can be more relative.

Just to repeat, nothing you said meant anything.

Luminon wrote:

That's not esoterics, that's simply a scam. Esoterics is represented by strictly non-profit volunteer organizations like Alice Bailey's Arcane School. No real esotericists do it for money (though they must know how to use money correctly), neither they claim about themselves that they are initiates of any degree. This is the same problem as with science and pseudoscience.

Skating dangerously close to a one true scotsman fallacy there....

Please expand on this. What point are you trying to make about stem cell research?

All the nurse's report shows is that she travelled and collected water. Her statement that it tasted sweet and pure is not evidence of anything being present (or not) in the water. The fact that she's a nurse doesn't add validity to her claims.

And your claim that all the pipes would be stuffed with bicarbonate is untrue. Bicarbonate residue - or limescale - would only be required to be filtered or cleaned out if it existed in high concentrations. Bicarbonate will happily stay in a constant flow of water without crashing out into the pipe.

Luminon wrote:

The truth wouldn't shine out, because it can only do so through mass media, which were always very hostile to that kind of message. Without them, the humanity as such is blind and deaf.

Conspiracy theory nonsense. The media does report good things. What they tend not to report is nonsense.

And here we have something I'm going to call the Oligarchy Fallacy, which we'll classify as a sub-division of the cosmological argument. You've looked at the strucutre of the capitalist system come to the top and said "IT controls them but who controls IT? There MUST be someone". Except you've done this - Countires < Banks < IMF/World Bank/Whoever - which is wrong. The central banks of the world such as the IMF are made up of member states and countries that use the banks. It's a complicatedly cyclic system but there's no one tiny group at the top controlling it all. The myth of an all-controlling body at the top is nice because we like to think that someone's in charge but, really, once the money starts going round it's a self-sustaining system. It's faulty and can be manipulated but there is no requirement for anyone to sit at the top controlling it all.

So he'll only save the world if it wants to be saved.... nice little cop-out there. "Jesus can save you but you have to let him into your heart".

The plan is to inform and inspire people to make changes? So much like the miracles of God the effects of "The Teacher" will be indistinguishable from the efforts of people if God/The Teacher hadn't intervened in the first place? Funny that.

I'm not playing with words, quite the opposite in fact. I'm being careful with the words you're using. You said the whole world had to be involved and that the mass media was controlling that message. In 1982 the media did not affect the world like it did today. Not everyone on the planet - the whole world - was getting any interest in the Falklands conflict. You've yet to explain why only the Americas and Britain count as the whole world. I'm not couting Russia and China in here because only their governments were looking and the several hundred million chinese probably couldn't care less.

Not only that but you're now saying that indigenous peoples get to make up their own minds? Why don't they count towards the whole world? Are they not worth the teacher's time? If they get to make up their own minds why can't we?

So the time was right after WW2? Why didn't he step in then to change things? He saw the war changing into a more political one? Then why not step in at an early phase and stop all the corruption and fighting before it got going? You're making it sound more and more like this teacher will only appear to save us once we've done that for ourselves.

He reminds me of a guy I used to roleplay with. We'd be playing some fantasy game (not necessarily D&D) and we'd all spend all the effort fighting a huge monster. This guy would make one contribution at the very end to finally slay the beast and then he'd claim all the credit.

So again: The teacher knew these things were coming - your explanation for him holding off after WW2 - and did nothing to prevent them. So once the system that he allowed to come into place finally collapses under its flaws he's going to come in and tell us how we should have been doing it all along? Which he could have told us at the start?

If this Maitreya is really a Christ then why didn't he appear earlier and stop all this before it started? The idea that he hasn't appeared yet because the world is mean seems to me to be ultimately childish.

And what happens if the capitalist system doesn't collapse? What you're forgetting is that capitalism by its very nature is prone to periods of boom and bust. It can't sustain one without the other. There's no guarantee that the whole system is going to tumble down (and you've only got half a year left of your 20009 prediction....). If it doesn't happen what then? Is he no longer the man to fix the economy? He'll then be the man that needs to come in and fix "global problem X"?

MichaelMcF wrote:

If I remember, MM experiment didn't produce the interference pattern. So the light had the same velocity.

Yes the sagnac effect disproved the ballistic theory which was in agreement with the MM experiment. This is countered by the Lorentz contractions - these are why there is no sagnac effect in the MM experiment. It's simple and can be derived from first princples of physics.

False connection. Just because someone is persecuting you it doesn't mean that's what is happening everywhere.

Luminon wrote:

All right, so where the vacuum energy, permitivity and permeability? They are far from zero values. What else than ether could it be?

I'm not dismissing this but I'd like you to expand this into a more coherent question. Right now I'm not sure what you're asking or saying.

His opinion of the article about the MM is simply this: "All the guy is saying is that you get different fringe patterns if you use the speed of light in atmosphere (which is c/1.0003) than in vacuum. He's then saying that the initial results of the MM experiment may not be true, because MM used c rather than this number, so there may be other explanations. What he doesn't convincingly show is that the fringe shift associated with c/1.0003 is significantly different enough from the value obtained with c to come to another conclusion" - in other words, while the numbers may vary there's nothing to stop the conclusion remaining the same. My friend thinks whoever wrote this is badly interpreting his own numbers.