You be the Judge: Chick gets raped twice in a row; second time is by dude she went to help for
Posted on: July 17, 2009 - 3:57am
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You be the Judge: Chick gets raped twice in a row; second time is by dude she went to help for
Props to Achilles for this story:
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/07/raped-girl-went-to-man-for-help-raped-again.html
...So, with regards to the 2nd guy - the one who raped the girl after she came to him for help and told him that she had just been raped - how to you sentence?
Me, I say the guy gets to eat a 3 course meal consisting of broken beer bottles for the next 5 days, and then gets to shovel elephant poop at the zoo for the rest of his days. And, hey, since none of his assets will mean anything to him anymore, they'll be awarded to the victim. 
Oh, the justice system I would run...
Quote:
"Natasha has just come up to the window from the courtyard and opened it wider so that the air may enter more freely into my room. I can see the bright green strip of grass beneath the wall, and the clear blue sky above the wall, and sunlight everywhere. Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression and violence, and enjoy it to the full."
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
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just one of those stories that only registers on the "WTF" scale
"Help! i've been raped!"
"Thats so hot"
*rape rape rape*
(Insert rant about while the whole human race must be eliminated)
What Would Kharn Do?
This was his fourth. Fuck.
We spend so many resources keeping these kinds of people in prison and trying to help them. Is the death penalty really too harsh of a punishment?
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
...Well, unfortunately, if your goal is to actually reduce crime, the apparent answer right now is 'yes' (...unless you intend to execute people for just about every crime you have in your books, thus drastically cutting down your population).
What actually tends to happen is that people will begin to associate the more draconian penal system as being little better (or perhaps even worse than) the criminals that are being incarcerated / executed, and this will begin to legitimize criminal activity in the public eye. In some cases, even romance it.
The prohibition era in America is a notoriously good example of this. Bank robbers in particular became almost celebrity icons as 'bad boys' who were seen almost as Robin Hood-esque figures fighting against corrupt thugs who were taking away people's fun and murdering them.
Tragic as it is, feeding Mr. Naylor broken glass for breakfast and forcing him to work waist-deep in feces forever wouldn't actually help anyone. Lock him away for good for everyone else's safety, and put all of the $$$ and effort you'd have liked to have spent on making him miserable into trying to comfort & console the victim.
I'm amazed at how often 'justice' systems take the dumb Kevin Brown approach and focus on retribution far more than they do at helping the victim.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
The funny thing is the first time I have completely questionable as being rape or not.
But then she went calling rape and got raped.
"The 16-year-old girl..."
"...night of July 4, 2005, when her first attacker--who has never been found--approached in his car and talked her into getting in, said Calumet Area Lt. Anthony Carothers. She told police she voluntarily got in.
The man took her to what he said was his residence, apparently in the area of 79th Street and Loomis Boulevard, and there raped her, Carothers said.
Her assailant allowed her to leave, and as she was walking on the street about 2:45 a.m."
So some guy pulls up in a car, she gets in willingly and goes to his house, where she says she is raped. She isn't being held there against her will though, and he lets her walk away from the home...yet she can't remember the house, or anything? I don't think a rapist would take them to their house and then be like "go walk home". It doesn't seem very rapist-y to me. It feels a lot more like a BF she was having a tiff with or something.
Which, that exact same thing (claims of rape for leverage in an argument) happened to a friend of mine (who was 1/5th her size, and had no muscle whatsoever on him...while she was freaking Helga) and pushed him to kill himself because she was trying to use it to get drugs from him.
If that was the case, I say she deserved to get raped for calling wolf on it. Obviously a screwdriver is all it takes. The first case is just too fishy for my taste.
Sorry for the complete lack of empathy for her. I just have noticed that most of the people I know who were raped never acted the way she did, and most people who weren't raped and were trying to get something out of it matches up a bit too closely. Fucked up that people would claim that to try and get things, but it's also fucked up that all the other people that claim abuse for attention, revenge, or blackmailing purposes tend to get away with it. "I don't remember...but I suddenly could remember you being that person. Wouldn't want that would we?"
Maybe I just have no faith in humanity being honest and upfront about everything, so I am skeptical of these stories.
Still, it sounds like that last guy totally did rape her. Should be punished accordingly, especially with the history of it behind him. (4 rapes, seriously?)
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
That's pretty fucked-up, ClockCat.
...So you're calling her a liar because she didn't get chopped-up? And was perhaps in too much shock to do something like look at a house number?
Maybe dude didn't want the blood in his car. Maybe dude was a sociopath and wanted her to live on remembering how he fucked her.
There are many instances where a rapist has a humiliated victim take awalk of shame back home (or wherever) after they've finished assaulting them. Hit up Google and check for yourself.
Fuck, I hate 'bame the victim' rhetoric.
EDIT: Oh, and she didn't willingly go to his house. She willingly got in the fucking car. She was at a bus station, obviously the dudetalked her into getting a ride home (probably told her it wasn't safe to be sitting at the bus stop that late at night).
You ever got into a stranger's car to expediate your travel somewhere? I definitely have.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
For all that we know she was trying to be a prostitute (getting picked up curbside, going willingly in their car to their house, not being restricted from leaving after, on foot from his home?) and when he wouldn't pay her charge, she decided to call rape. It's not like that is terribly uncommon. The situation sounds way too unnatural for me, sorry.
Don't forget there are always two sides to a story. Jumping on her side just because she made the claim (and probably did get raped the second instance) doesn't make her truthful. And no, I don't get in random stranger's cars. I never have, and I wouldn't expect a 16 year old girl to in the middle of any city, let alone CHICAGO. Seriously, that is something that everyone learns before they hit 10 living in a city.
If you want to jump on her side feel free, but it doesn't add up. This isn't some suburban area. She hops in a stranger's car off the street in the middle of the city. Either she knew him, or she was trying to get money off him for sex is what I would guess.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
*Eye roll*
Two types of people that never have any empathy for rape victims:
Homosexuals and ugly chicks.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
I never said I don't have empathy for rape victims. That is pretty cruel of you to say, especially trying to generalize it onto me for my sexuality.
I just think she is lieing. I don't believe her. It doesn't add up, and I'm calling it that. No girl that grows up in Chicago would jump into a random stranger's car when they are waiting at a bus stop for public transit, without knowing the guy first or trying to get something out of it. This isn't some surb-urban area with white picket fences we are talking about.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Well, the eyeroll was directed at you, but the generalization was just, well, a generalization. It's also one that tends to be true.
Ugly chicks and gay guys don't empathize with rape victims. Why? Because they have a hard time imagining themselves in a situation where being screwed by a dude would be unpleasant for them.
Both of my gay friends constantly pulled blame the victim routines whenever they heard a rape story.
EDIT: If it makes you feel any better I'll throw Thomothy in the generalization bin while we're here, even though he hasn't piped-up on the story yet. How much do you care to bet that he'll also be on your side here?
No doubt now he's gonna come bust my balls for stereotyping... right after (perhaps before?) he's also done blaming the victim.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
I find that terribly offensive of you to say, to claim that gays would enjoy rape because they are gay and are attracted to other males. That is like pointing at a heterosexual girl and being like, "She would enjoy rape, because she is a girl and they are attracted to males."
And as for your "blaming the victim" what if in that case they aren't a victim and the other person is? How do you know they are blaming the "victim" instead of calling it what it is? I know people that claimed people raped them for attention, for control, power, and blackmail, just because of people like you that jump on their side instantly without questioning their story.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
We need a scientifically designed society. Mr. Naylor should be available 24 hours per day to a group of well-paid head doctors, who would write down in a digital form everything about him. The data would be then statistically compared with a studies of similar people. The scientists would then make a sociologic analysis, which should be handed over to the lawmakers and new laws should be made according to the results. This would decrease the number of rapists in our society. Caught and convicted criminals are a dangerous but valuable material, which must be studied and effectively prevented. Each one signifies, that there is a hole in our society, and if we don't patch it up, another one will appear, sooner or later.
Then, before release from his boyfriend's vaselineless prison cell, Mr. Naylor should be injected a GPS microchip into his ass, perhaps that new type, containing a cyanide capsule. A true Damocles' chip. Maybe also a non-permanent chemical castration should be considered.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
I like you Luminon. You have somehow found a way to combine your New Age empathy with behavior modifying techniques that even the Secret State Police would appreciate. Not an easy thing to do.
If they actually kept him in prison, this wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, we have to let some upstanding citizens like this go so we can arrest a few more possesors of marijuana.
Do I really have to tell you I'm being sarcastic?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
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Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Just because she's the victim, however, doesn't mean that we can't call a spade a spade. This isn't the young women leaving her office who gets attacked and raped before she gets to her car and manages to get a bit of blood and skin on her keys which she used to fend her attacker off, which was unfortunately unsuccessful and now she's scared for life. This is the woman who got into a stranger's car! She's stupid at best. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she's been raped before. I doubt very much if we'll ever hear anything about the story again, though, so my speculation stops here. She says she was raped twice. Maybe she was. She's a complete moron. She is also a victim. It's hardly tragic. I can't feel sorry for her like I would for a rape victim who was attacked. I can't feel sorry for her like I would for the abused wife, who is raped nightly by her husband.
Anyhow, take it as you will. I don't think I'm blaming her. I'm sure if she was raped she's blaming herself for getting into the stranger's car willingly. As for the second time, well, bad luck? That just sucks.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Geez Kev, reread what you just said there. Sure, a generalization may be more true than it is not true but that does not grant it any real validity. Seriously, if you wanted to say that Negroes enjoy yachting on weekends, that would not really work out at all well for stunningly obvious reasons.
On the other hand, if you want to say that Negroes like fried chicken, then you have a somewhat workable stereotype. The thing being that for all the time that humans have been on this planet, we have had to deal with famine far more than abundance. Fried chicken is a cheap source of protein and literally dripping with fat. Is it any real surprise that economically disadvantaged people tend to like the stuff?
OK, you have gay friends. So do we all. However, to extrapolate from the few that any of us know (and that is also limited by the fact that we probably all know gay people whom we have no idea are gay) to gay people in general is just not workable.
Let me tell you about one guy I know. He is about as flamboyant as Christopher Lowell. His family has fully disowned him over the matter. Yah, the situation with his family is tragic but it is something that he has no choice but to accept.
Well, a few years ago, just when gay marriage was a mere blip on the cultural radar, he was invited to a party only to find out that he was the guest of honor and the party favors were baseball bats. Long story short, it took him most of a year just to learn how to walk again.
Who sat by his side while he was in intensive care? Well, nobody did. No family and his boyfriend of several years could not claim next-of-kin status. If that does not tell you that there is quite a lot of work to be done as far as dealing with cultural values, nothing really does.
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i think im with Clockcat on this one...
Does that make me gay? or an ugly fat chick?
You know what people say. One man commits several rapes and he's called a felon. Another man causes deliberately a million of deaths, countless rapes, looting and civil war, and he's called an ex-president.
We've made this world a terrible place for majority of it's inhabitants, who are mostly ignored, because they have nothing. To be empathic today means to feel really bad and to feel the need to act radically to change everything, otherwise we're all dead. This is a difference to the feel-good laid-back New Age types.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Ha ha, I'm cool with all of that Luminon. And really, I was expressing my admiration for how you chose to address the non-spiritual aspects in dealing with the offender.
peace !
This one?
http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/the_real_differ.php
That first "rape" story in the article sounded suspect to me too. Does that make me gay or a fat chick? No, it just means that I don't think all the facts add up.
And for you to make a generalization about all homosexuals based on the 2 (literally 2) that you claim to know is hilarious. That's probably the smallest sample ever used in a study.
This is essentially the same thing as saying that homosexual men shouldn't coach little league or share locker rooms because they have no control whatsoever over their libido and are attracted to anything with a penis. Gay guys have standards too. I'm guessing sex offenders rank somewhere between Elephant Man and Rosie O'Donnel (if they are, indeed, distinguishable).
For the record, this is the first time I've agreed with Luminon on anything. It's a nice thought, but I don't think we could get funding for it.
"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."
Yah, that one.
Odd really as that link provides the right graphic on my screen and the play button has a mouseover set. Go figure.
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As some have said -- Polly Perfect Report Card doesn't get raped twice in the middle of the night while walking from the Malt shop to the Library to study. This is sketchy. Maybe she wasn't prostituting herself, but she was up to something. I'm not saying that being up to something means you deserve getting raped, but as a judge, I'd sure want to know what that something was before I threw the book at a guy who potentially deserves a misdemeanor for solicitation, or whatever the penalty is. I know it's less than what he'll get for repeat offender sex crime.
I've got a sneaking suspicion that nobody in this situation would come out smelling rosy if the full truth was disclosed.
Oh... and one more thing... KB, if I was any less compassionate and empathetic than I am, I'd wish a few nights in jail for you so you could experience picking up the soap in the bathroom three or four nights in a row. I hear that kind of shit hurts gay guys, too.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
This thread is now about rape fantasies. Captain Pineapple, would you like to add anything on Kevin's behalf?
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
[Big Gay Al Voice ON]
Oh, snap!
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
i dont think i've ever had a rape fantasy... i'll have to try that
Hahaha, interesting ideas.
I've always thought that the primary goal of a good justice system should be to protect the innocent, not punishment. The only reason we punish criminals or teach criminals that they did something wrong should be to prevent them from doing it again. You can always keep people in prison, but this costs valuable taxpayer dollars and there's always a chance that the offender will commit more crimes if/when they get out. Research would be fine, but we have way more criminals than we need for something like that.
Many people subjected to life imprisonment would probably prefer the death penalty anyways. You might say, "Ah, so if we give them the death penalty instead of keeping them locked up their entire life, they won't suffer." But, see, I just don't care about that. It seems so...juvenile, to have a system that seeks revenge. I'd rather just get it over with and save some money and any potential future victims. Plus, I don't think the death penalty, when used against those who have committed heinous crimes, is immoral in any way.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Hell, I'm a lesbian and rape survivor, and *I* find this chick's story suspicious. Sounds to me like you hang out with a couple of pricks, Kevin. Not that I find that very surprising, considering what they say about birds of a feather.
Rill
Wow, I've had the add comment box open for some while, thinking of what to say about Kevin's comments. I'm now convinced that not only is Kevin's gerbil off the wheel, it hung itself long ago.
And I'm also a compassionate empathetic person, and I'll go with Hamby's idea
Never had one, and I can't picture Kevin doing anything with a woman.
Would he tie me up with mouse cords and then play WoW?
Best post evar
I sometimes fantasize about being raped by a man but I wholly consider myself a straight man.
Is that odd?
Also, if I was a woman who had just been raped I would've found a random woman to ask for help instead of a man. Or used my cellphone. She probably had one of those, too.
My Brand New Blog - Jesu Ad Nauseum.
God of the Gaps: As knowledge approaches infinity, God approaches zero. It's introductory calculus.
I don't think I know anyone that doesn't have a cellphone. I mean, how would you text your friends during class without one? o.O
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
I take exception to some of the comments in this thread. That girl isn't a liar, a prostitute, or a dummy. She's fucking Blanche DuBois from A Streetcar Named Desire. She has always depended on the kindness of strangers.
There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft
I dont have a cellphone, or a landline phone for that matter
take that telemarketers! muahaha
What Would Kharn Do?
How does Doomy order his evil pizzas then when he has to do diabolical plotting?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
A computer can be used as a phone, when internet access is available
What Would Kharn Do?
I have never had a telemarketer call me on my cell phone.
Sounds made up...
Agnostic Atheist
No, I am not angry at your imaginary friends or enemies.
I have. I used to get calls telling me "the factory warranty on my car is about to expire" and I should get special insurance through them..I had to press the "stop calling me" button on 3 different calls before it worked.
Since that, nothing though.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Indeed, for cellphones it all depends on your contract company...
Sprint and Rogers is like selling your soul...
hell, they even call you with their own telemarketers...
What Would Kharn Do?
Well, except it's not. It's more like me pointing at a heterosexual guy (because I was pointing at a male in the first place) and saying, "I really, really doubt that this fellow would ever empathize with another dude who was raped by a girl."
And, guess what? 8-9 times out of ten, I'm probably right. If you go back... I think about a month? You'll find a story in the Russian media about a would-be burglar who was disarmed, bound and raped repeatedly for a few days by the attractive female salon owner he was trying to rob.
Hw many heterosexual dudes feel for that guy? Even if he hadn't been a burglar, how many heterosexual dudes feel for that guy? You can claim to if you want, but in the back of your mind you know it's a different story.
You're a male, and you tend not to empathize with people of your own sexuality (in your case, mostly heterosexual women) when it comes to sexual assault. I mean, go ahead and deny away, but as a male myself I know that I just don't.
...See? I was even right the first guess. You busted my balls first.
Yeah, okay, okay, you made it pretty clear you want to be objective, and I was being pretty dick-headed, so there we go.
Okay, so just to be clear:
I'm the one defending the alleged rape victim (we can be pretty sure she was raped at least one time; I'd argue for two, but I guess since nobody else is buying the story, I'll just fold my cards and assume I'm giving too much credit to the chick), but I'm the bad guy who deserves to be raped so he can know what it feels like?
...So the guy who is on the (alleged) victim's team is obviously the one who needs to know what it's like to go through what they just did?
Maybe it wasn't just me wearing a penis over their head last night.
Hm. Well, it would probably involve being tied-up with mouse chords (or maybe SNES controller cables)... but do the full-blown roleplay?
Well, hey, if that's what you're into. Gotta try everything once, or so they say, right?
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
He was talking about you saying that gay guys would enjoy getting raped.
Also I think you surpass me as the most sexually repressed person on this board.
I didn't say they would enjoy being raped. I said I'm pretty sure they have trouble empathisizing with female rape victims who get raped by guys, the same way heterosexual guys have trouble empathisizing with guys who get raped by women (granted, the last one doesn't happen all that often).
Fucking sue me for getting pissed when ClockCat said, "Well, she *must* be a lying whore. Nobody ever gets raped like that,"
My mistake for not realizing that this would be the majority opinion.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
and unlike the time you quote-mined me, I included the whole quote that has to do with the point, and not some random quote from another topic that had nothing to do with the discussion.
...Nah, you just quoted me when I was pissed-off and neglected to read later comments.
You're much better than I, for sure.
EDIT: You also didn't highlight the part in that segment of text where I said how much gays enjoyed rape. I believe that's because, go figure, it's not in there.
- Leon Trotsky, Last Will & Testament
February 27, 1940
Did you miss it this time?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Just in case...
"Do not, as some ungracious pastors do, show me the steep and thorny way to heaven. Whiles, like a puff'd and reckless libertine, himself the primrose path of dalliance treads. And recks not his own rede."
Give it up, Kevin. You can't save face on this one. The comment makes you sound like a raving asshole no matter how you spin it. Clockcat made a perfectly rational comment based on the facts presented in the article, and you went off all half-cocked. You made yourself look bad, and now you're just digging yourself in deeper. If I were you, I'd accept this one for the lost cause that it is and walk away.
Rill
In defense of this girl, the guy was charged with four sexual attacks before he picked her up and raped her for the second time...
OK apart from the whole Kevin vs everyone else thing, I am gonna go with the “this doesn't add up” deal. Although that could be an easy way out simply because the dude was just arrested a few days ago, so there is a basic idea that we simply cannot know what the police know (and even that is probably not as much as needs to be known).
Even so, the article does say that the rape case has gone four years cold. Let's consider that as a data point.
If the chick was hooking and the rapist was a customer, then I find it quite unlikely that she would remember his face four years later. Now that does not mean that she was not hooking. As Hamby pointed out, there is quite a lot that looks wrong with this case. Still, she managed to pull this guy out of a line-up four years later and her pick matched the DNA from her old rape kit.
Perhaps Polly Purebred could pull a face out of a line-up four years later but try asking her what the weather was like that night or what she had for lunch that day and we will find out if her memory is really that good. If there were eight people in the line-up, then she had a 12.5% chance of picking the right guy by blind luck.
So does she really remember him or was it random chance that he got fingered for the crime? We cannot know at this point. We do know that his DNA seems to match. We also know that she had at least two DNA samples up her cooze. Possibly more. If his attorney does not use this fact to cast doubt on the DNA, then he needs to be disbarred.
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