Life, a disappointment
Posted on: November 30, 2009 - 8:19am
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Life, a disappointment
In broad terms, human life on Earth is a great disappointment.
Perpetual war, perpetual disease.
Overpopulation.
Famine.
Premature death.
Religion.
Loneliness.
Is life really to be this way?
Millennia of attempts to improve life for very little.
What’s life’s worth?
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Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Disappointment to who? To you I guess. What exactly did you expect, or hope for? For most people this may well be true, that rarely does life live up to our hopes and dreams, but that is almost always going to be the case, no matter how much our situation may have improved over the centuries, by objective measures.
You continue to dwell completely on the negatives, ignoring the fact that there are at least some positives for a significant number of people, at least some of the time.
For many people, there is NOT 'perpetual war', even if there appears to be some conflict somewhere on Earth all the time. Same with most of the other things.
You would be equally justified saying there is 'perpetual darkness', because at least half the globe is in darkness at any one time.
Not everyone is lonely, not all the time.
There is no purpose either way, life just 'is' the way it is.
It has improved dramatically over the millennia for many societies.
It is worth whatever it is worth to each one of us, there is no objective external judge.
It is true there are grim prospects ahead, unless many people and groups can be convinced of some glaring truths, but that does not mean we can't try and grab some moments of distracting enjoyment in the company of friends and family.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
Julio:
From ~thoughts.com~ when this exact post was presented to its members...
One of the posters there wrote to you:
"mm yea sure, life isn't all wonderful. but i think your view is a little lopsided.
what about love?
laughter?
warm sunshine?
the sound of children playing?
being rewarded for your hard work?
spending time with the people who mean the most to you?
jokes?
sunsets and sunrises?
stars in a moonless sky?
sure, if you focus on all the pain in the world, that is all you'll see. look outside yourself. there is beauty and a great life out there. really there is."
I think she has some great points, don't you?
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
Yes, sure. I appreciate a sunset, but after some sunsets it's the same ridiculous sunset of always, while many people around see the same and it doesn't help them get a better life.
We actually use these routine sunsets to counterbalance the hardships of day-to-day life.
It's not fair.
Poverty is not resolve looking at sunsets.
Child rape the same!
Stuff the sunsets, if that is a trick to create an illusion that life is fantastic!!
We are not saying sunsets make life fantastic, just something to take your mind off all those depressing issues for a while.
If you don't try to break out of this depressed state even briefly, you will just sink further in, and become totally useless to everybody, even to yourself.
People sunk that deeply in despair are not going to be well able to motivate themselves to attempt to address those problems, like poverty, etc.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
How about dying on the operating table? How about seeing war first hand in Koskovo? How about holding a dying child in my arms not being able to do anything? Dood you have no clue about my life or the stuff I have experienced, yet still life is great for me, I have seen some horrible shit, yet in the end I still decide to perceive life as great. Have you ever taken a life? I have and you know what it sucks, but still I view life as great, why because I have done what I wish, i have seen the world in both it's horror and beauty and still, for me, life will always be great, because that is my perspective. You still have not given me by what standard that we must live that makes this life a disappointment, last time I checked there is no standard, there is no guarantee of anything other than you will live and you will die.
I see your point.
Yet, that life you live is not the model all or even some have to follow.
Your life surely has moments when sanity would call it disappointing.
Life throws us in the quicksand and we cannot complain?
Thats the thing, what model are you talking about? there is no model by which there is a standard of life that we have to live up to, it's a matter of perception, I don't view life as bad and a disappointment, you keep on making it out like there is this standard of life which life should attain, yet I don't get it, the only thing I know is we live and we die, how we live our lives and how we make it is up to each individual person, we are all responsible for our own actions, and in the end how you want to live your life is up to you, but there is no standard model of how a life should be.
Even with all the crap life has thrown at me, I put myself in many situations, I decided to join the army, I knew the consequences of doing such a thing, I never asked friends and family to die, but that's a the reality of life, you live you die, and I accept that part of life, I don't just merely know it. I know there are billions of people living below my living standards (I have home, food, fresh water, family, etc, etc, etc), and even though I try to do my part to make the world a little bit better, I know all I can do is make my world better, that is it, and I try to make my world better every day, it's not perfect by any stretch, but anytime anyone asks how I am doing, I am doing phenomenal. I am alive and I am doing phenomenal, why because that's how I choose to live my life.
Just as you are free to choose to live your life as you please, even if it's a pessimistic view.
You know, I realize that this sounds reeeeally corny just about now, but if you think about it... You know how they used to always say that it takes more muscles in your face to frown than to smile?
Well, what I've been noticing lately in my own life is that time goes by faster and I feel healthier when I smile and greet people pleasantly, even when I'm down about something. Because people notice you're down and then they ask you about it and you either spend the next several minutes going into great detail about how miserable you are or you refuse to talk about it, and either way you're still miserable afterwards. But when you smile and say "hello" and ask somebody else how they are doing, then you turn the focus away from your own problems.
Also, people naturally feel better about themselves when they help other people. It's something I learned in my social psychology class. I forget the term for it, but it's effective nonetheless.
So julio, go out there, smile at everyone and do something nice for somebody. If you don't feel even the slightest bit better after that then... well... adopt a puppy?
on that note, now a word from mr. leonard cohen (and bear in mind he admittedly dealt with crippling depression for most of his life). the first minute is only chatter, if you want to skip it...
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
And by comparrison Paris Hilton and Bill Gates economically have astronomically more resources than I do. So what? My boss's son is an idiot with no work ethic and lazy as hell. I don't put him down because he has more than me., but because he is self centered and lazy. Nor would I put someone down because they live in a mansion. People are people and it is not a matter of being poor all your life being the measure of your worth anymore than being rich should.
Again, what many here have been saying is that life IS and that's it. Good and bad happen to all of us, rich or poor, no matter what part of the world you live in, and what you chose to make of that is up to you.
Of course we can complain about the bad in life, THAT IS NORMAL. Of course we feel sad when bad things happen, that is normal. But what is also normal in our evolution is the drive to overcome those bad things. No biological life would exist at all if it didn't evolve to strive to overcome and adapt.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Happiness or the lack thereof is not always dependent upon external circumstances. Sometimes the battle is not fought against negative circumstances or the indifference of fate. Sometimes the battle is entirely within the mind itself and even within the midst of the most placid setting the mind can still be in self-destruct mode.
The brain is an organ as much as the liver is. It is also subject to the vagaries of genetic randomness, and sometimes the results are less than desirable. Many times depression is not a reflection of the external world or a defeatist mentality. It is a result of an abnormality within the brain.
A positive attitude is always an asset but it does not constitute a solution in this regard.
But if this feeling of sadness is now a geographic feature of your life then you need to talk to someone other than all of us disembodied voices.
I know.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I think we all recognize that this is part of life, and to struggle is part of our existence ..
but to give up is to surrender and is not what our species is all about...
Pretty much what everyone else has been saying.
Get laid. Drink some tequila. Go skydiving. Adopt a puppy.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Fixed
What Would Kharn Do?
A friend just the other day told me to count the blessings.
Why only the blessing, I asked?
because TV news counts the rest.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
As an unabashed hedonist, the problem is that we are made to be ashamed of who we really are. Society continually tells us we are bad and selfish if we pursue our own pleasure. That we need to be moral. Unfortunately even a lot of atheists play this morality game.
Bull Shit!!! This is source of our stress and misery. If you just make the pursuit of your own pleasure and happiness your continuous goal, you can overcome all this. And the thing is, groups of people pursuing their own happiness would be better overall for society than than a bunch of phony moralists feigning indignation and creating shame all the time.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Wasn't Hedonism a philosophy about the collective good?
As opposed to individual good?
If so, then your particular good might create particular evil against some other member of society, and thus the creation of conflict.
WAR is the result of some few wanting all the good for themselves!
That makes life a disappointment.
Not really, it's just putting the pursuit of pleasure and happiness and elimination of misery above all other pursuits(really it's the only one). Cooperation with others is useful when there is a net benefit for all parties.
War is an inevitable result of the competition for limited natural resources while having reproductive drives that cause humanity to grow at very high rates when resources are available. Misery(war, poverty, crime, pollution, disease, etc...) is how humans control our population growth. As a hedonist, I desire to see this dynamic of the current system eliminated.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
War is essential for a stable lifestyle, we pretty much are programed to kill other humans which can lead to terrorism. I'll admit some wars are retarded, but there are plenty good wars; the civil war, the revolution, World War II. What would the world be without those wars? We're not subtle enough to say "Screw it!" and let the world screw us over; that's silly. Imagine us all being British with our own slaves killing Jews calling out "HEIL HITLA!" while Korea goes and starts nuking everyone. THAT my friend, is a world without war; and you're right about one thing, war is wanting good for oneself, but that good is something many can prosper from my friend. Where there's government, there's money, war, and poverty; without government, there's chaos, no technology, short lifespans, and a live and let die lifestyle. I ask you; is that better?
And excuse me I may have went off on a tangent there.
"I do not think it is necessary to believe that the same God who has given us our senses, reason, and intelligence wished us to abandon their use, giving us by some other means the information that we could gain through them." ~Galileo Galilei
And without the continuing variation and emergence of new ideas and different approaches to life, which inevitably includes some which lead to conflict with others, we would never have had effective evolution. IOW, we would never have emerged in the first place.
You can't know the ultimate consequences of every small detail of the genetic code and other attributes of a life-form, whether good or bad, until it is tried. So ideally every possible variation has to be tried, if we are going to sure of finding the 'best'.
Sorry, 'perfection' is an illusion, the mix of the good with the bad is inevitable. There is evidence that we are better by some measures than in the past, the 'best' societies around are way better for a bigger fraction of their members than back in ancient times.
This is not necessarily 'as good as it gets', but a few 'bad wars' are part of the deal that let us get to this point from the primeval slime.
Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality
"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris
The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me
From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology
You can't win julio; join us... Join us... Join us...
..and the flip side to all this:
I believe in the human right of self-determination and individual autonomy:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/25/MNGUPDSVIQ1.DTL
Edit: I speak only of my own pov regarding self-determination and am not advocating a course of action regarding julio.
It's a juggling act but at least we've landed on the motor of morality and can see the vital role empathy plays in allowing us to feel as others feel in order to create balance in our social
groups. Look at this entire thread. Proof that satan-loving atheists are capable of moral balance in virtual real time. An excellent experiment.
The thing with personal good is that humans are never entirely alone - they share at some point and must own up to the collective good. Functioning in small family groups predisposes us
to project that understanding and sharing out into the wider community.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
BobSpence1:
1. I guess, then, that if America nuked some of her enemies right now it would be OK, just to grant further prosperity sometime in the future! Bush wanted to do it, but the Congress halted it, I guess.
2. In the face of so much structural unbalance in society, we, privately, make an effort to condition our mind to accept it. Those of us doing "well" leave behind those who are not so clever. But to somehow suffocate an accusing conscience, we attempt to play the philanthropist. Some succeed. Yet, the overview is that life is a disappointment.
3. Life is in general dog eating dog. Some of us are, at a given instant in our lives, supporting the winning dog. But when our dog loses, we run away, too! Sometimes, we are the winning dog that others follow forming a devastating pack.
Just kind of tossing that out there.
"I do not think it is necessary to believe that the same God who has given us our senses, reason, and intelligence wished us to abandon their use, giving us by some other means the information that we could gain through them." ~Galileo Galilei
Julio, if you should decide to embark upon a quest of self-improvement maybe you should think about getting rid of your Hitler mustache....
Oh?...
Isn't that a cheap shot?...
For some reason this thread just reminds me of this popular specimen.
As far as life is concerned for me, I really appreciate it.
I don't know why but I enjoy very small things, that may look very not-important to some. Like when I eat a fresh fruit and it tastes wonderful, I say thank god I am alive that i can taste this. lol Or a friend calls, hey I am alone come, lets have a dinner or a beer, and we sit talk about something, I mean when i notice that m a living creature, who have some sweet things, some nice friend who care for each other, and other thousands of sweet things daily, i just love it.
Just yesterday i was talking after a dope with a friend, we discussed lot and the result was: Don't give a shit who we are, whats all this universe, but just this few days life needs to be spend with happiness and joy for yourself and for others(if possible).
in short life is so sweet for me, i enjoy every second of it. I dont say m too rich, maybe comparing to living standards in europe, you will wonder how can i be so happy in kabul, afghanistan. But the truth is that i am and hope everyone be so.
Religion makes me suffer everyday!
Get into the good stuff. I agree. Life is in many ways a bunch of complete crap but fortunately evolution has blessed us with systems that make it worth while a lot of the time, unconsidered most the rest of the time, and for those annoying moments, 6 beers with mates followed by a fat spliff gives surety of very funny moments.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Unfortunately, I don't like beer that much [and it is expensive].
I drink it only with sugar [when I do].
Sweet beer I can tolerate.
And it must be really cold, which doesn't help to dilute the sugar, and spills a lot of foam. Anyway, very disappointing, indeed.
oh gross! jesus christ, man!
well, i guess i sometimes forget that i'm spoiled by living in slovakia, since the czechs and slovaks make the best lager in the world, bar none. the original pilsener is from the czech reublic, after all (named after the town of plzen). so is the original budweiser (named after the town of ceske budejovice, or budweis as the germans call it). anheuser-busch ripped off the name, but the original is a faaaaaar superior product. here it's usually called budvar but the bottle also clearly says budweiser. because of the dumb piss-manufacturing fucks in st. louis, it can only be purchased in the US as "czechvar."
and it's not at all expensive here, but i know for example in france it is.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
Actually, given the racial dynamics and recent history of your country, I would have considered it a prudent move on your part, but suit yourself.