It blows my mind ...
Posted on: December 2, 2009 - 1:09pm
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It blows my mind ...
Fact: There exists no contemporary source for any of the alleged events in the Gospels. In other words, no one recorded any of these alleged events as they happened, which should have been done if these far out events really transpired. That alone should settle it. Books by MJ scholars like Earl Doherty and others are just extra dessert, whereas what I point out here is the main meal. Yet, even Atheists say things like "It is quite obvious that Jesus of Nazareth really lived." How can these spineless fools say such things? The only thing that makes sense to me is some sort of religious PC wherein they won't let even themselves think "insulting" thoughts about a major world religion.
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That the central gospel of Mark was written in Greek possibly from an original latin version and the other gospels use this one as a source (except John, who is tripping on mushrooms).
When you argue with a theist about the veractiy of the gospels you run into annoying things - among them that when using the historical method to verify facts in texts, multiple
sources amplify each other like documentary transistors. The dead sea scrolls also show that the NT is old - it wasn't made up in 1300AD but about 1000 years earlier.
Of course, none of this is verification. The gospels are not written in Amaraic but in a foreign language, in a foreign country by nobody knows who. The original gospel, Mark, may have been originally
written in latin - that puts its author in Rome - the place you would expect the fabrication to have come from if it was a fabrication. The early churches based in cities around the mediterranean fought
each other furiously for influence and if we believe men wrote the gospels then it's likely they came from the seat of the early church. That's Rome.
I have not seen evidence that makes me believe Jesus is a real person. I think he's a mythical figure probably based on a number of other people. The NT is unsupported outside the bible.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
You are right, of course. The whole thing is fiction. Any historical linkage is purely coincidental. Just because a story is set in historical times doesn't mean that it is histroy
Don't be too hard on atheists who think Jesus was a real person. I don't think it is their fault, they have just been given faulty information.
Early work on the subject was all done by Christians who were specifically looking for links to prove that it was real (biased reasearch) and some people are still working with that information. The other thing is we get bombarded by Christians citing bogus proof or refering to these early works. My father is an atheist and yet he told me that the bible was roughly historically acurate bacause that is what he was taught. I had a discussion with him about it recently.
Zen-atheist wielding Occam's katana.
Jesus said, "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." - Luke 12:51
The reason is probably in part due to the fact that the three largest religions today all agree that jesus existed, even if they part ways beyond that. In order to argue the point effectively, you really need to become a scholar on the subject. That's a lot of work just to be able to say he likely didn't exist. Especially when it doesn't really matter.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
To be completely fair, we can't really say that the complete lack of evidence disproves the existence of an historical Jesus anymore than we can say that the complete lack of evidence for a God disproves a God. However, we are not obliged to do so. The Burden of Proof demands that a person making a claim must provide evidence for the claim. Anyone claiming they can prove that Jesus existed must offer evidence.
In this case, the null hypothesis has been invalid. Since people started examining the Jesus question, the null hypothesis has been default existence. Instead, it should have been the same as for any literary figure. Until and unless evidence proves he existed, he should be assumed to be a literary invention.
That's the rub of the whole thing. Removing religious belief from the equation, the gospel is a piece of literature. It reads just like... let's see... a FREAKING LEGEND! But because of religious belief (not scientific belief) in the real existence of Jesus, there's always been a default assumption that this particular piece of fantastical legendary literature is a new genre, based on the real existence of a real person. And there's simply no evidence to support that conclusion. Not a scratch.
Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin
http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
Books about atheism
Yes we pretty much can say there was no Jesus. The only way Jesus could've existed is if he and the apostles/disciples lived in a cave and no one ever saw them but we know the bible doesn't CLAIM that. They claim they were out about and seen by THOUSANDS and there were also towns and settlements by the Red Sea yet obviously no one say the "parting" of the Red Sea since that's pure mythology just like the rest of the bible.
Not only there is ZERO historical evidence of Jesus but there is ZERO historical evidence of ANYTHING in the bible!! No evidence of Moses, apostles/disciples, Mary, etc.
Below is the link and info that should cause every Christian to convert back to sanity!! It lists prominent writers/historians at the ALLEGED time of Jesus who never even heard of the guy!!
There is no historical reference to Jesus’ life, death or the crucifixion―nothing at all. John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence1 lists the following contemporary historians/writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus was supposed to have lived:
“Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.”
Nor, we may add, do any of these authors make note of the disciples or apostles; increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity. In other words, the only information of the life of Jesus comes from Christian believers.
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/nohistoricalevidenceofjesus.html
Apollonius Persius Appian Petronius
Arrian Phaedrus Aulus Gellius Philo-Judaeus
Columella Phlegon Damis Pliny the Elder
Dio Chrysostom Pliny the Younger Dion Pruseus Plutarch
Epictetus Pompon Mela Favorinus Ptolemy
Florus Lucius Quintilian Hermogones Quintius Curtius
Josephus Seneca Justus of Tiberius Silius Italicus
Juvenal Statius Lucanus Suetonius
Lucian Tacitus Lysias Theon of Smyran
Martial Valerius Flaccus Paterculus Valerius Maximus
Pausanias
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
That's a very good question and I'm shocked by it too. It's almost like people have been brainwashed since's it UNEQUIVOCALLY clear that Jesus was a mythical figure that was copied from previous gods in the area like Mithras, Horus, Dionysis, Osiris who were also resurrected, had virgin birth, blood sacrifice, etc.
Just take the link I posted above and below and start educating people that Jesus is no more real than the Bugs Bunny cartoons we all loved watching on Saturday mornings before they cancelled them!!
http://jdstone.org/cr/files/nohistoricalevidenceofjesus.html
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com
Well spineless is a little harsh. I don't know many atheists that believe jesus existed, however I know many who believe he may have existed in some way. Some like me find his existance completely irrellevant as it proves nothing of his divinity or that he could actually perform the miricles in the stories. Was their a carpenter named jesus? Who cares.
And even when you go back to the OT flood. Isn't it funny that the Chinese culture never recorded such an event.
I have to give credit to that to Bob Spense.
Beyond all this "historical" bait and switch crap Christians pull, what they don't seem to understand is that all god believers of all religions have the same "chosen people"motif where they will be swooped off the train tracks and their super hero will vanquish the villain.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Not only that but even the EGYPTIANS, ROMANS, AND GREEKS HAVE ZERO HISTORICAL RECORDS OF JESUS or ANY characters of the bible during the period the bible alleges they existed. The truth is ALL characters or almost all characters in the bible are mythical.
The very deceptive and dishonest Christian clergy also don't tell you that OVER A HUNDRED creation stories exist from different cultures all over the world and no story has any more evidence than the other.
They also don't tell you that there are flood stories from all over the world yet they act like the Christians are the ONLY ones who have a flood story. More lunacy from the Christnuts!
Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com