Any atheist herpers around?
Offline funny story. I went snake-hunting with this guy I met online here in Houston. He turned out to be somewhat of a religious nut. I won't say what website I met him on, it is a really good site full of educated people who are herpetologists and serious types with really good photography skills and knowledgeable about things that I really like.
Anyway, I catch a cottonmouth, and this guy kinda looks disgusted and says, "It's hard to believe god would create something like that".
Most people don't realize that a decent percentage of snakes, and even lizards, are actually poisonous, but they don't have the delivery system or potency and/or volume of venom to be dangerous.
He said some other religious stuff that isn't worth mentioning, but to get back to the subject, does anybody here want to go herping sometime when it warms up? I know some pretty decent spots around Houston, as well as Brazos bend SP and the Brazos area off I-10.
From summer 2009 to late November 2009 Species List for me
Western Cottonmouth (too many to count)
Water snakes (too many...)
rough earth snakes .....etc
anoles, fence lizards, etc
bullsnakes, racers, Buttermilk racer (just one)
lots of various turtles
Also, I like to handle alligators, not in a homoerotic way or anything, I just like seeing what I can get away with. you would be surprised at how gentle they can be. I will also mess around with some spiders now and then, but never scorpions.
Let me know. [email protected]
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Sounds interesting and fun. Also, what do you have against scorpions?
would be too long. I almost got bit twice by some serious mofo's. Western Diamondback Rattlesnake and Timber Rattlesnake. The WDB is responsible for the most deaths of any poisonous reptile in N. Am. the timber tho, it is the most serious bite you can possibly get in N. America by a native species. you are in trouble if you get by any rattlesnake, but especially Timbers, Mojaves, and WDBs.
I don't tend to go out looking for creatures big and small, but I have a "hunters instinct" coupled with a love of life, so when I'm out anyway I'm always on the lookout subconsciously for critters. I can also easily spend hours at the ocean beach looking at all the sea creatures stranded in tidal pools.
I'm not interested enough to learn the names for everything though. It would take years.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
You wouldn't get me to attempt to catch a poisonous snake. I am afraid of my own shadow.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
So, you handle alligators in a heteroerotic way?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Careful not to get herpes
I was worried someone would figure out that the true meaning of my post is to meet someone else who has herpes. and to think my next thread was going to be "First AIDS response for BAD burns". you atheists are just too smart.
Ya? well thats definetly not Pineapple, shes never been given the chance to catch an STD in her life !
*zing*
What Would Kharn Do?
Well, I live in the great state of Connecticut, so I can't really see going out with you. However, I have gone out to see what I can find before.
Around here, the only hots that we have are Timber rattlers that rarely get more than 3-4 feet, so they tend to have a smaller venom load than the ones you see, plus they have a less powerful venom in general.
If you do get hit by one, you should go to the hospital anyway just on general principal. Than being said, the standard treatment is rest and observation. Normally, even if you do get envenomed, your body can fight it off in a few hours but you should be observed in case you have a reaction beyond normal.
That and we have copperheads. I have known people to get hit and not even bother to go to the doctor but it will leave you flat on your back with some nasty looking swelling for a day or two. I would still go to the doctor though just in case.
Past that, we have the usual crop of garter snakes, racers and so on. Once I did find a dead northern king snake (mostly gray but with two narrow black stripes surrounding bands of red). Beyond that, mostly frogs, lizards, salamanders and turtles. I did once see a snapper that was more than two feet across but that was in an enclosure.
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A few years ago, after smoking a little weed at my farmhouse, I walked around the wraparound verandah to the kitchen in nothing but a pair of boardies and going into the kitchen with the lights out
I stepped on 6-foot tiger snake in bare feet. What was funny was the knowledge as soon as I stepped on it that things were not ok and a powerful instinct to go backwards rapidly.
When I hit the light this beast was up on its 'hind legs' coughing at me. After a lot of giggling and carrying on (I was up there with my girlfriend of the time) I finally herded the creature back out into the night.
Other snakes we've had in the house include 2 red bellied black snakes and 4 brown snakes. My 80yo mother was up country the final time and when the brown snake appeared from behind the living room curtains
and everyone headed for the exits, she grabbed the poker and accounted for the snake - a bit unfair I thought as they are protected and we have a live and let live policy out there.
The poor thing was only a couple of feet long and no doubt was a lot more scared than she was.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
What do scorpions have to do with herpes?
I'm not big on the slithery things in life but spiders are pretty cool. Once on my aunt's farm in Kentucky I saw a GIANT yellow spider with black stripes all over it and it had a web that looked like a zipper. She called it a banana spider.
They both sting when you splash water on them....
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Who said she isn't?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
It's interesting how such a God-blessed country was blessed by so many poisonous snakes. I wonder if they like apples. Here, in the mostly godless state you can find only european viper, then some harmless grass snakes and blindworms, and ocassionally something that escaped someone's terrarium, until someone steals it.
I wonder what the herpetologists actually do to the poor creatures. If it's what I presume, cruising the nature and harrassing the wildlife, then it must be fun! I have read recently some adventures of a Slovak man who lived for some time near Yosemite national park and a lot of wildlife visited the house. Here at most, red deers can roam the garden, but he had a mountain lion drinking from the swimming pool. The mountain lion kept drinking even though he poked him with a stick. Finally the lion escaped when the Slovak guy dunked him with a bucket of water. But as for the snakes, he did things like screaming at rattlesnake (they're deaf) or catching some tiny, colourful snake's head, that was by the way lethally poisonous and young, which means that he can't control his poison glands and instead of spareful adult dose (5% of poison supply) uses all he has.
Furthermore, he let himself be stung by poisonous ants, spiders and scorpions (without permanent consequences) and tried also some poisonous oak therapy.
Really, Americans need every bit of blessing they can get
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Well Luminon, I have been to a few reptile shows, so I have been around hundreds of people who are collectors. Mostly, people just set up aquarium tanks to keep them in. Honestly and depending on the specific variety of the snake, plenty of people will spend less on an individual snake than on getting as close as possible to mimicking the natural habitat of said snake.
For many people, it is just a mildly fun diversion. Provided that they are not collecting hots (venomous) or snakes that will be less than 2m when fully grown.
The thing that amazes me is all the people who will get snakes that they will not be able to handle. Either hots (um, what the hell are you thinking, getting a gaboon viper for your living room?) or the ones that grow really big. Every zoo in this country has to turn away donations a few times per year from people who thought that it would be reasonable to get a reticulated python (around 8m as an adult) baby, under the assumption that they would give it to a zoo. Trust me on this one, if the commercial market has so many such snakes that anyone can buy one, then all zoos already have as many as they need and want.
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I'm from CT as well... the great trashy city/town of Bristol. My neighborhood had a nice little pandemic when a bunch of copperheads showed up a couple of years ago and killed a couple of cats. We have a lot of little kids in the neighborhood, so we had this guy who lived next door who made it a personal mission to collect them all and move them out of the neighborhood. Made me petrified of Canadians. The little canuck caught like eight of them and laughed like he had ice water in his veins. Im almost positive he enjoyed it. Scared the hell out of me... I don't mess with snakes.
One of the least dangerous poisonous snakes are cottonmouths. they aren't really aggressive, at least the ones I have encountered aren't.
This is my dad in the 1970's and he's an atheist.
Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist
www.mathematicianspictures.com
And a pretty big one at that. Eloise is your old man at a fair or a country show there or something?
Great shot, BTW.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
West south west in the highlands near oberon. There are lashings of snakes there in summer though most are pretty shy.
There are a good few aussies on here, I think. Godless bastards that we are.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
He inhabits an interesting reality somewhere in eastern Europe, I think. Correct me Lum, if I'm wrong.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
It's a tiger snake, so as you've probably guessed he's in Australia in this pic.
I probably have more pics but none that are on my PC right now, I'm moving house this weekend so I doubt I'll be able to post anything else till after new year at least.
My mum was born in Ireland to a mixed family. She had one devout christian grandmother and the other was a pagan witch, her father was part native american and had been adopted into his step fathers strict catholic family.. so she, understandably, tended to agnosticism, but learned, and is well versed in, all of the religions of her family.
Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist
www.mathematicianspictures.com
Yeah, my dad was a showman in those days, I come from an old show family.
Thanks.
Theist badge qualifier : Gnostic/Philosophical Panentheist
www.mathematicianspictures.com
Yah, well I was writing about what we have in the great state of Connecticut. Even though our timbers are considered to be the same species as canebrakes, the venom profile is rather different from what you probably get in Texas.
The common type found in the south is the really powerful neurotoxic one. However, up here we have what is known as type C venom which is just about on par with that of the cottonmouth and copperhead. Honestly, the standard up here is rest and observation, at least until the bite begins to look serious, as the risk of a reaction to crofab can potentially be worse than the effect of a bite from one of our snakes.
Even so, as I said above, I would go see a doctor for any bite at all. Heck but even a dry bite can cause an infection that starts as deep as the fangs can go.
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Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
Rofl @ ^.
I always found it a glaring proof of evolution that some species are far more dangerous in some locals than others. In B.C., in the Rockies, there were black widows everywhere. They were in the top 5 for common spiders to see. Yet those widows had little venom compared to their cousins in the South. Only children, elderly, and the sick were generally at any risk from bites. And even then I'd never heard of anyone actually dying from a bite or bites.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
trust me, it has nothing to do with being farther north or the snakes and spiders having less venom. it might be that a lot of the bites occur when it is cold out and people are more likely to hold them. and the snakes are really lethargic.
No. It was in biology that I was informed that they secreted less venom than their Southern cousins. People tend to devote research on those species that live with them, and that was the result. You'll have to provide research to the contrary to shift my position.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
a timber rattlesnake (croatalus horridus) is the same snake no matter where it is found, and their range is almost the entire Lower 48 states. there is an incredible amount of misinformation, unknowns, and yet to be discovered facts about venomous animals. one thing I am certain of is that no one gets a bite from a Timber, a Mojave, EDB, or WDB and just sits around wondering if it is going to get bad. it will be bad immediately.
The point is, 1 bullet can kill... some guns have more bullets that others...
bullets= venom, guns = snakes...
A northern snake may have less venom, but its still deadly... so it wont matter unless your victim # 8 in the line
i blame that on our health care system... Amuricans take note! dont make our mistake...
What Would Kharn Do?
I'm talking about black widows. ie; the spider. Your snake information is irrelevant.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Central Europe!
Yeah - I just thought everything west of Germany was called eastern - didn't consider the former political connotations of this, however.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
And all cats are gray. Not because they are but because I say so...
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what part of ky is your aunt from (sorry if you've already told me before)? i'm from the northeast, about 3 hours west of charleston, wv, and 1 hour east of lexington on i-64. i've never heard of a banana spider, but god knows we get plenty of brown recluses, which i kill on sight.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
"okay, just go and aggravate the northernmost timber rattler you can find, and then just sit around and wait to see if anything bad happens. that would be a sure fired way to find out for sure, instead of relying on facts and hospital records and the toxicology information that has already been undertaken. people like you are just stupid, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it."
You can feel free to go to the Okanagan Valley in British Columbia and handle black widows all you like. When one bites you and nothing happens, you'll know I'm telling the truth. Or you could strike up a conversation with a biologist specialising in the species in the area.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Ouch
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
everybody's just beating the shit out of brian's poetry tonight. let's see some of the haters post their stuff. put up or shut up. especially since i don't recall brian claiming to be a great poet or anything.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
OK, I will play this game for another round. Answer the following questions as yes or no:
1. Do you understand that there are differences between individuals in any given population?
2. Do you understand that there are differences between populations that are geographically separated?
3. Do you understand that Canebrake toxin is only found in a relatively small area around where you happen to live?
4. Do you understand that the Northeastern population of timber rattlers produce crotalus horridous toxin type C?
5. Do you understand that hospitals in areas where the type C venom is common have different policies from those where canebrake toxin is common?
6. Do you realize that I have said in every post where it is relevant that if you get hit, you need to find medical attention?
Now add up your score. The more yes answers that you get, the fuller of shit you are. Oddly, the more no answer that you get, the fuller of shit you are. Pick one.
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Just because a NE variant produces type C doesn't mean that other toxins aren't present as well. Seriously, it was just a few years ago that someone had the mind to actually test the saliva of a Komodo dragon and realize that they are actually poisonous, and then he went on to study a lot of other monitors and even "non-poisonous" colubrids and found that some or most of them were also poisonous to various degrees and some, like most monitors and a few rat snakes, even had poison glands.
I will agree to your points, but I hope that the laymen reading this don't think that there is anything minor about any poisonous bite, especially if they are from rattlesnakes. Sistru (pygmy and Massagua) would be the only rattlesnake bites that I can imagine anyone just sitting around and seeing if anything happens. I actually received a dry bite from a Western Cottonmouth in TX and consider myself very lucky. I got just about the same reaction as I had from a pretty bad Hobo Spider bite in AK. the general area went from pink to red to purple and then to brown, but there was very little pain and swelling. A lot of people haven't been so lucky.