People may be free to believe in religion, but these muslims are violent and are causing physical crimes. Car bombings, rockets, hell, just look on youtube. Same thing with crime. You stop the source of a crime, you can eliminate or lower it. Not crime as an entirety, but crime in that section. Whether it be stopping drug flow, getting rid of drug lords, gang leaders or cleaning up town, you can prevent crime in an area. If you get rid of Islam, you get rid of all the crazy men using bombs and AKs.

Also why is it that you are agreeing or omitting to these crimes muslims are doing? You've already said that you believe they are justified because of a few wars in the past. So would that mean, if your family member 200 years ago killed one fo my family members, would that give me the right to kill you today?

If that's so, you have really messed up logic.

You know I think they said the same thing about Hitler. But Hitler is also considered a Xenophobe.

Smells like you're a xenophobe to me!

"You mean like how Bush/Chenney did in Iraq? "

Nope.

"This kind of takeover requires a lot of high tech weapons, blah blah blah"

Just keep proving you don't have a clue.

"What's the strawman? Is there any form of socialism out there that does not amount to a reward for a fundamentalist Muslim, Christian or Jew to have as many babies as they can and then indoctrinate them with their religion. I should should be so happy to pick up the bill for this?"

More made up problems. Fortunately everyone knows you're an irrational idiot with no argument beyond strawmen.

"Actually the Islamics are flocking to Europe to get the benefits of the welfare states."

Nope.

Nice try Vasset. But it's obvious you don't have anything but ad-hominem attacks.

Quite the contrary. I've simply already defeated EVERY argument you've ever made. I see no reason to put more effort into defeating your baseless assertions and flat out lies when everyone here can see them but you.

They're basically spouting out living bombs.

No wonder they're protective of their women. Those are their factories!

What a lie! All you do is ad-hominem attacks. You have nothing so you all you can do is insult.

Simple question to prove you don't want a debate hold on to your irrational socialist views:

How is your brand of socialism going to do anything but enable Muhammad and his 4 wives to have even more babies they indoctrinate with Islam while there rest of society picks up the tab through welfare benefits, minimum wage and progressive income tax? If I'm such an idiot this should be no problem to refute.

"What a lie! All you do is ad-hominem attacks. "

Bullshit x 2. All YOU ever do is make strawmen and ad hom's. I've defeated EVERYTHING you've EVER said on politics AND economics. I'm using ad hom's NOW because you've never even addressed an actual argument I've made. On some level you know how stupid you've been, but your ego is too weak to admit making mistakes.

"How is your brand of socialism going to do anything but enable Muhammad and his 4 wives to have even more babies they indoctrinate with Islam while there rest of society picks up the tab through welfare benefits, minimum wage and progressive income tax? If I'm such an idiot this should be no problem to refute."

Oh look, another misrepresentation. You prove your idiocy yet again. I must have told you at LEAST a hundred times over how it would work, but you're irrationally stuck on your strawman of rewarding nothing and punishing success. It's really quite pathetic.

Here you go:

But there are a LOT of Muslims who are criminals in terms of extremism. How do you get rid of it? You knock out the source. After the fall of Hitler and the Nazi's in Germany, you don't see anymore giant genocides or concentration camps right? Sure nazism may still exist, but look how tiny it is now compared to the 1940's. If islam wasn't taught anymore, you'd have much lesser crimes that consisted with their extremism.  =)

There is nothing particularly surprising about that.

Highly educated (and often rich) young people have less ground to stand on than anybody else. They feel less "meaning" in life. They have all that high ground to study the world from... and, unless they are liars at heart, this enables them to well see how corrupted and false our wonderful modern world is - but they cannot as easily see any way out of it. So they despair. This is the predicament of youth.

It is an impressive hate speech for a first post. Congratulations.

But you are correct in stating that this has got fuck all to do with racism. This is a cultural problem which has deep roots in old conflicts and injustice that has never been rectified, much less set right. But the fears are not justified in any other reality than that of fuelling the fire and escalating the conflict by drawing up conflict lines that cannot be bridged.

At the end of the day, we are all human beings.

With the possible exception of all you who cry out for more blood to soak those weary old stones with.

Meh. I don't like it.

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/19413

What you are doing is, ironically,  to lend credence to the scumbags who excuse their criminal activity with religion.

This is to be lead around by the nose. It is to play the terrorists' game. I myself offer them no glory of being "holy warriors". To me they are just criminals - and they deserve only to be invetigated, prosecuted and setenced as such. I am not even listening to their religious rhetorics. (I couldn't care less.)

OK, let's play it your way.

What exactly are you going to do? Cry wolf and leave it at that? Install fear into the gullible?

The purpose of terrorism is to install terror. Create fear. By any means available. Because - and this ought to be obvious to all thinking people - where there is fear there is not much room left for rational and constructive reasoning. Fear is a very strong feeling that has no match in overpowering all voices of reason. Fear begets more fear. Hatred. Violence. War. Is this what you want?

Consider this: There are about one billion Muslims in this world. How are you going to relate to them all?

Are they all terrorists and members of a death cult in your eyes?

Can you not see that the agenda of the Islamic terrorists and extremists is to play non-Muslims against Muslims so that the moderate ones will become more extreme and the extreme ones will become batshit crazy? And... exactly who benefits from this?

You Sir are indeed making a hate speech. Even if you may feel justified before... er... yourself.

Why? Because you are not being constructive. You are spreading fear. Who's side are you on anyway?

OF COURSE it's not a religion of peace, you fucknut!!! What religion is?

That's not even the point. The point is that you have to deal with X amount of people who are infected with this mind contaminating bullshit - and who are not seeing a lot of hope and answers to the problems that torment their souls anywhere else. They look around them and they see that they are hated and despised, feared and ostracized. So what are you going to do?

What are you going to do? Drive them towards a point of no return where there is no longer any hope of reconciling your "faith" (illusory as it may be, it is still a tactical fact that a lot of people have it) with your self respect, leaving you no choice but to move towards a position of conflict? Who the fuck wants desperate people wandering around thinking it might be a good idea to blow themselves up in a public place?

What are you going to do with somebody who's willing to die right here and now, on the fucking double, just push him as little as a fraction of an inch and off he goes... What? Threaten him with punishment? Don't be ridiculous. There is a reality out there and that's what we are stuck with in the act of living our lives. You don't put out a fire by pouring kerosene on it.

Fuck all you holy warriors. Most of us just want to get on with our lives. We are not heroes.

mmmm...not reeeaally.  not intrinsically, at least.  if by "peace" you mean nonviolence, that is not a central tenet of either buddhism or taoism in general, though perhaps in some sects it may be, especially in the west.  the farthest you can go is perhaps nonaggression, but i wouldn't even say that that is implicit in taoism, either religious or philosophical.  taoism is basically silent about the morality of combat.  it could be argued that nonaggression is implicit in buddhism, but a buddhist monk is not forbidden to fight. 

there are holy warrior ideals widespread in both religions: shambhala, samurai, the conquering sage-king.  they do teach peace as a by-product of universal enlightenment: in buddhism, this means the whole universe realizing its buddha-nature; in taoism, a return to the mythical golden age of the yellow emperor, when everything worked in harmony with the tao.  neither religion compels its followers to practise nonviolence as a means of attaining this, however.  of course, neither religion teaches the subjugation of other religions, either.  i would argue that neither religion even conceives of this question.

there are very few religions i would call either "religions of war" or "of peace."  i think this is an oversimplification and a false dichotomy.  the only religion i can think of that i would be perhaps 90% confident in applying the label "religion of peace" to is jainism.

In Islam, if you kill your self FOR ANY REASON AT ALL you go straight to Hell because it is CLEARLY FORBIDDEN TO KILL YOURSELF. Also why would you ask an Athiest about Islam? Would you ask a Jew about Hinduism? No, you would ask a Hindu! So talk to a Muslim, like me. I can tell you that there are many false rumors about Islam and the Majority of Muslims are not extremists! Most Muslims do not even consider Extremist "muslims" as part of Islam. BAsically theses bad people take the Quran and change the wording a bit or the meaning so they can use religion as a means to gain power. Please do not hate all of us for what a few bad people do And no race is perfect either. Its not like white Americans never do bad things and if they do they try to cover it up. Did you know that the Taliban was created by the U.S.? America supplied them with money and weapons during the cold war and then ditched them right after and pissed them off and never said sorry for ditching them. Also if you look at the situation of the war in Iraq carefully, you will see that America only went there to get oil from them and there were never any weapons of mass destruction there! Finally, there is proof that 9/11 was set up by the government too.  There are groups doing an investigation on it and the first 40 pages of the report that the government created on 9/11 are kept secret, meaning the government is hiding something about 9/11.  Anyway, Islam tries to teach peace and we are SUPPOSE  to respect all people not matter what religion or sexual preference; however some Muslims don/t obey Islam like they should. If you ever study the Quran you will that almost all the stories in the Quran came from the Bible too the Quran just has some post-Bible stories in it. So if you think Islam preaches bad things then you must think Christianity is bad too.  Don't always believe the media either, they only say what brings them the most profit; watch international news to get a better idea of whats going on around the world too. I'm sorry if all your experiences with Muslims have been bad, but please do not think bad of us as a whole

Thanks.