Obesity in economy class
Offline More than once I have been wedged into the side of my already-minute aeroplane seat, as the giant figure of an obese person sits next to me and forces me into near suffocation and severe irritation. For some it sounds cruel that I think I have the right to be annoyed when someone who clearly can’t fit into their seat inadvertently overlaps mine with their excess flesh. From the time they sit down, I know for a fact that I will feel every movement they make and will not be remotely comfortable for the entire duration of my trip. This is not a problem if I am flying from Johannesburg to Durban, but I’ll be damned if I have to smile through it for 11 hours when London-bound. Some airlines have declared that they will prevent very obese passengers from boarding for safety reasons. According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in the USA, it must be possible to evacuate an aeroplane in 90 seconds and anything that impedes this must be rectified before take-off. Although I am sceptical that any plane carrying more than 10 people can be emptied in a minute and a half, I can sympathise with concerns that an extremely large person could slow the process down. This impediment would frustrate me somewhat if the plane was on fire or I was drowning. All I say here, though, has been travel from my point of view. But what about obese travellers, themselves? According to our friends at Health24, clinical obesity is a disability. You wouldn’t open a can of whoop-ass on someone in a wheelchair if it made your flight less comfortable, would you? In fact, the Canadian government has passed “one passenger, one ticket” legislation applicable to all domestic flights, meaning that no one is obliged to buy two seats, even if you take up more than one. In a move designed to protect disabled people, the government included clinical obesity in the ruling. I interpret this as: large people can get a second seat for free. While this may suit obese passengers, it frustrates those of us average sized peeps as the airlines are forced to charge us more to make up for the free seat given away. Is that fair? Possibly not, but I am happy paying a few “ront” extra to make sure that my space is not invaded by someone else’s body – particularly as contorting my 6 foot 1 frame into a space designed for a 5-year-old is an initial challenge I have to face every flight anyway. But the question remains: Should passengers have to do it? A large part of the medical fraternity sees obesity as a serious and complicated problem and throws disdain on the philosophy that it is all about excess eating and laziness. Dr Ingrid van Heerden, Health24’s diet doc says: “there are definitely obese people who simply don't respond to standard methods of weight loss; it's not just that they've ‘been naughty over Christmas’ and lack willpower.” This means that as much as it is not our fault when inconvenienced on a plane, it may not be the obese passenger’s either. So what is the solution? Air France KLM, Europe’s largest airline, which flies to Johannesburg and Cape Town, has recently adjusted their policy. Although it is not a prerequisite for boarding, the airline offers obese passengers the option of purchasing a second seat for only 75% of the price. If the plane is then not full on take off, this second seat will be fully refunded to the obese person who chose to buy it. This means that for a discounted fee, all passengers can sit in comfort (if such a thing can be located in economy class), and the expense is only enforced if required – and you hardly ever get a plane where every seat is booked. I think that’s a pretty happy medium. This means I don’t have anyone’s flesh touching mine while flying, and they don’t have to pay too much for the privileged of not squashing me.Obesity in economy class
Simon Williamson
February 3rd, 2010
personally im all for the solution at the end, but if thats not possible i say make people who cannot fit in there seat buy a second seat. I dont wana be horrible but it is truely a nightmare being on a long flight siting next to someone who takes up all of there seat and half of your own. most people who are obese are not that way because of some disease but rather over eating. those who actually do have a disease making them that way i can feel sympathy for with this issue but if you are just lazy and over eat thats your choice and I think you should be forced to buy 2 seats. what you guys think?
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
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What I want to know is the average number of obese people on a flight. If they can expect say 3 on average, why not just make one row that has bigger more spread out seats for them. If they are filled then some lucky chap can get some extra room. This would still cost more for a ticket (presuming that obese people aren't forced to pay more for their seat) but would less than giving them two seats and probably be more comfortable for everyone.
Perhaps they could design some sort of adjustable spacing for the seats. Like how you can take the back seats out of a van. The middle seat could be taken out, then, if there were two obese passengers on the plane, they would each only be taking up one-and-a-half seats each.
I think that the best way to reduce the problem is, as always, prevention. If more money was put into health care for these people, and research in to ways to treat them, then the problem can be made marginal.
hey i agree make a few obese seats per plane totally reasonable idea, but this has been a problem for a while and nothing has been done yet so its reasonable to assume that its gona take a while. i like imediate solutions!
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
OK, you know the whole “I'm not fat, I'm big boned” thing? Well, I look at the guy in that picture and I see that fully apart from his skeletal dimensions, he is quite the tub-o-lard. I too have been stuck next to guys like that all too often.
The thing is that it really is possible to be a big guy without being some dude who thinks that gravy is a beverage. I don't know how big either you or the author of that article is but I happen to be a big guy. Odds are that I have much less fun stuck next to some tubby dude who would have trouble fitting into a first class seat. When I fly, if I am lucky enough to have an empty seat next to me, the center arm rest is going vertical just on general principle. Sure, a pair of skinny people might not notice but my Scot/Irish skeleton will not fit too well into economy seats and if I should fly with my brother, we will sit apart from each other.
So from my point of view, the matter is that airlines assume that they can pack a flight with undersized seats and pack people in like every flight is a slave ship. If the airlines did not do that, it would be much less of a problem for me.
=
Don't fly coach.
Or take the train.
YOU MUST hate all overweight people by virtue of that comment. TAR AND FEATHER THIS MAN!
Just like I must hate all women if I don't call them pretty. Just like I must hate all gay people if I use the word faggot. Just like I must think mentally handicap people are worthless because I called someone else a retard.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
Looks lovely today, doesn't it?
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
I'd like to see the argument made for obesity being a disability.
'Well, I couldn't help but sit on the couch all day and stuff my face with Mcdonalds."
I mean I was at the movies one time, and some fat lady in front of me came in with a large poutine and a sundae. They have a KFC at my local theatre. I'm dead fucking serious.
To be fair, I'm sure some people actually have medical issues that can cause weight gain like diabetes or slow metabolism, but seriously, I don't think every single one has something like that. Nor do I think a diabetic would get a fucking poutine.
They serve 4 pint drinks at KFC here. That is half a gallon. They have handles on top of them. I found out when someone brought one into a store where I play board games, and I was like "....WHAT IS THAT?"
It makes me die a little inside honestly just knowing that they serve essentially 2 liters with their meals.
I don't think I can drink that much soda in a day, let alone at one meal.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Here we go. This is what I was talking about.
Pamela Anderson must be jealous. That has to be fake straw.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The amazing thing is that many of these people never noticed that they were getting fat until the surcharges appeared. They are in complete denial of what they did to themselves.
I was once flying from Canada to Los Vegas for a conference sitting behind an elderly American couple. She outweighed me by a hefty margin and I am 6'3" at 230lbs. I was a fit athletic individual, long distance cyclist and former Heavyweight amateur boxer. Well when she reclined her seat into my lap I could not even move and I felt that the beast was crushing my lungs. The seat was uncomfortably small for me initially but with that beast in my seat it was too much.
I asked politely if she could sit upright as she was making my life very uncomfortable. She responded that she was entitled to recline her seat. I informed her that it was not a negotiation about her rights but mine. I asked the stewardess to intercede. The diminutive stewardess was obviously intimidated by the indignant corpulent beast in my lap. She asked politely for the monster to rise to no avail, then she asked the male she assumed had some measure of influence and he simply declined to interfere with the desires of his mate. No doubt her appetites and desires never acceeded to any authority or reason and living with her had crushed his resolve.
I informed politely the parties that if they did not act in a reaonable manner to accomodate my request that I would use any means possible to extricate the burden from my seat. The beast never even showed the slightest bit of concern nor even looked me in the eyes. The stewardess was greatly concerned and pleaded with the creature.
I warned everyone politely that my politeness was coming to an end. I then used all the power in my legs to lift the tremendous bulk. The load was tremendous I strained but managed to gain a few inches of altitude. I could hear a small hiss as the creature realized she was moving upward. I managed to lift her nearly upright and squirmed out of the seat just as she slammed down into the empty seat I just had evacuated. We all heard the seat restraint snap and she dropped almost horizontal. I stood in the aisle and all the witnesses focused on my next move. I simply insisted that I be given a new seating position that did not endanger my safety. The beast lay on her back glaring upward at the impudent Canadian Barbarian who had no respect for women's entitlements. I learned long ago when it comes to bears charging that the question of women's rights is not germaine , in fact I never actually cared what the sex of my assailant was durig an attack. I still don't care. The whole women's rights isue kind of left me unimpressed. I did not seem to register that men had any special rights at the time, life was pretty iffy in the Arctic. Things were always trying to kill me anyway and my rights did not have any bearing on situations, so I never gave them much thought even less to those of women; who had the luxury.
I was given another seat, and treated well thereafter. The beast tried to demand another seat as hers was no longer adequate. No one offered her anything for fear of her retribution.
The trip to Los Vegas was interesting. I had never seen so many obese people gathered together in one place. The line ups at the buffets were reminiscent of feeding hogs at a trough.
I have heard the excuses, Big Boned, Hormones , Gland Problems, Heredity, Pregnancy, Post Partum disturbances.
The truth is they are obese because they have no control over their impulsive nature to consume whatever is available. Then when criticized they blame it on God's Will or Biology. If neither approach works then self delusion seems to satisfy them. I always wondered why Fat women obsess over their fingernails and shoes. Does anyone out there have any insights?
Obesity is simply the failure of an individual to control biological impulses, this failure is discreetly unstated and people invent polite excuses to exhonerate the bloated creatures.
It is not a coincidence that the beast crushing the life out of me, could not imagine being denied her pleasure and comfort nor could she ever deny her appetites. We live in a culture that promotes the selfish natures within us and exploits or weaknesses.
There may be a connection between theists and obesity they are mutually gratifyig for some unknown reason. I can not recall ever seeing a skinny priest, they all seemed better fed then the congregation. Maybe I am just getting too old but I don't recall seeing fat people when I was growing up. Old ladies perhaps , the butcher's family and the mayor. Thinking back the Green grocers kids were all little and wirey, but then I was Ukrainian and we were all disportionately tall at the time. The only people we thought were normal height and weight were Swedes Germans and a few Poles.
But back then they did not crush the life out of passengers in airplanes. Now that I think of it I was 20 when I finally had enough cash to fly from the Yukon back to Toronto. I walked and hitched the distance to find work. I was a heavy weight at the time as well. My weight stayed the same for most of my life until now that I am getting old and frail.
Obesity is a social disease as well as a personal affliction. Entitlements and delusion have led people into the problem.They are not able to accept resonsibility for themselves and moderate their excesses. I was a miserable Catholic and often remarked that people invented God so they could blame him for everything. For a time I went through the delusion of believing that God was responsible for the atrocities committed in his name. I grew out of it, I sympathize with God. If he exists he has the most miserable job in the universe.
According to many old Cossacks drunk on Saturday night, God is just a fiction invented by women to frighten children and blame for their obesity but most objectionable was the women demanding an end to the drinking so that she would not be embarraassed on Sunday morning before the priest and GOD. Once the trick caught on everybody jumped on the band wagon. God willing, in God's name, in God's time. The phrases in language used to shift responsibilty to the ultimate scapegoat are endless. We as humans are obsessed with shifting responsibilty. My old man had a deep suspicion that God had nothing to do with the atrocities he witnessed during the second world war. He knew the names and addresses of some of the culprits and some wore black robes.
God is a scapegoat and human culture depends on scapegoats to function smoothly. The atheist is screwing up the system, society needs victims,co-conspirators and scapegoats and atheists confront that necessity . You can not deprive society of it's opiate as Marx ( Karl not Groucho) implied was possible.
Obesity used to be a uniquely American issue, so much so that in Europe it was colloquially referred as an American disease. If I recall I was in Paris in the early 90's when I read a french paper claiming there might be a virus affecting the obese. Add it to the list of other excuses. In the last decade obesity seems to have hit everybody Canadians, French, British , Germans and further afield. I have not seen it in Africa, and admit that I don't travel much anymore.
Obesity is the result of denial, facilitated by a society that no longer has the courage to admit that self actualization has gone too far. We were never designed to get everything we desire. Our design is flawed because the assumption was that something else would control us.
Maybe once upon a time God or fear of God made us shameful for being gluttonous, now that we have redefined God we can use him as a scapegoat. Once God was a control feature now God seems to have degenerated into a scapegoat.
The emergence of American style fundamentalism was considered by many Canadians and Europeans to be extremely offensive even alarming. The simulaneous development of a vociferous anti-intellectual constituency, rampant self indulgence, militarism and obesity along with American Xenophobia are perhaps not coincidences. God has become a convenience to fulfill the endless appetites of the followers.In some sense the changing face of God is a symptom of social dysfunction.
Atheists are going to have to struggle mightily to deprive people of their infinite scapegoat. Now that the annual cost of obesity to the American econoimy i.e. diet clinics diet foods etc. exceeds the American annual space program ( civilian I assume) someone should be asking what the hell is going on.
This is more than an issue about air travel. Maybe the rationalists out there should ask questions rather than sit around with a few fundmentalists arguing about voodoo dolls and the reality of such.
Believe me, I entered the boxing ring against some big men, I stared down Moose and Bear within arm's reach but the beast in my lap was one of the most frightening encounters I had ever experienced. Let me explain, unlike the creatures of the Arctic this was the only one that actually wished me harm and further she knew that she had support in her beliefs, she felt entitled to harm me. She felt empowered to commit an act against me that no sane man could imagine as legal. I have had guns stuck in my face many times, only recently have pistols and rifles given way to machine guns ( North Africa), faced down countless hostilities but never have I seen anything so completely unreasonable and assured of it's own power. (My my reflecting on my past it is an act of God that I can even write this note, several major motor vehicle accidents, aircraft and boating misadventures. Well back to obesity and flying, as a student of misadventures i can assure you that evacuation of an aircraft in an emergency becomes exceedingly difficult when half the passenger manifest is medically obese.) As I get older I seem to have lost my sense of humour or it simply turned black.
There is an ancient Greek saying, even drunks are afraid of crazy men. It was applied to me when someone discovered that I could read Greek writing, when visiting Athens. Another story, but anyone with a little knowledge of Cyrillic script would not have been surprised.
I was not drunk and I was afraid of this beast of self indulgence, crushing the breath out of my body all for a 5 day trip to Vegas. I survived by the strength of my own legs, only to discover that Vegas is not all that enjoyable. Thinking about it the show girls I fondled were absolutely magnificent but the large Larynx gave me doubts. Two of them were at least 6'5" I recall the crink in my neck since I so rarely use that set of muscles to lift my head.
The airlines are going to have a difficult time shattering the delusions of the obese. I barely got out of there alive. So when the ticket counter personel have to tell someone that they are overweight I can just imagine the furor.
Now that more than half of the American population is overweight, a cunning politician will arise to defend the rights of the obese. What those rights are is anyone's guess, but my adventure contributes one feature. The obese have the right to indulge their pleasure at another's expense and the consequences are not relevant.
Now that the herd has become so massive it behoves us to get out of their way. Rationalists and atheists be warned attacking obese delusions can have deadly consequences.
Ultimately obesity will spell the end of door to door evangelism.
Thank "GOD" for small mercies.
Oh by the way the best way to deal with the door to door type evangelist is to appear naked at the door and invite them for a chat. I did it twice and it worked even better than my Catholic mother's solution, she just charged them with a rake or garden hose. Me and my brothers just loved watching that Bavarian dynamo go after the Mormons and some other cult that I forgot the name , old age. It was wonderful and we laughed for years, I still remember seeing the tearful face of Tammy Baker on late night TV. The first time I saw it I swear I thought it was a new Second City skit. Honestly I loved her when I couldn't sleep or I had to write some paper. I miss her earnestness and especially the streaming mascara. What the hell was her scoundrel of a husband's name? Why bother with atheists the Bakers did more damage to the cause of theism than any heretic in history. Somebody know where we can get old copies of the Baker comedy hour? I am so nostalgic for the good old days. If the reruns were rebroadcast it would put atheists out of business.
Back to obesity, British authorities suggest that smokers are less obese and may actually live longer. Well damn it, I remember on my first flight sitting like a king and lighting up a cigarette and getting free booze. Not long after i was on another flight to Inuvik when we got news of the world's first hijacking. That was odd, we remarked as we pulled our rifles out of the overhead luggage bins. Who would be so crazy to try and wave a gun around in mid flight,
my colleague then remarked, " If I was on that plane I would have just shot the prick with my pistol "as he patted the big lump in his surveyor's vest I had to ask if the government issued it and how I could get one. He reminded me that it was personal since he did not want to drag a rifle and toilet paper with him when he left the tent to have a shit. Things changed fast after that event.
Something like that will have to happen before anyone curtails the eating habits of the self delusional. Until then I advise being polite until your next to last breath and simply demand a seat without encumbrance from adipose tissue.
How I miss the old days when the stewardess would smile, take your rifle and stow it carefully in the storage bin and then bring free drinks while you had a good smoke with your buddies flying into Norman Wells and then up to Inuvik. We stank of tobacco and Insect repellant but that was okay the view from 30,000m feet was great.
I swear the cute stewardesses from back then are still working and they are nowhere as obliging or as petite. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.
Now that obesity is considered a handicap, how long before stupidity is also classified as a handicap. Watching CNN I regularly hear defense attornies claim that their client is innocent because she was unaware of the crimes of her husband. Carla Homolka did that in Canada, now all the disappearing babies have attracted the attention of the righteous Nancy Grace.
Why does society tolerate self delusions? Perhaps it is an essential component. We can no more tell people that they are FAT nor that there were no connectionss between 9/11 and Iraq.
Reminds me of the Martin Hartwell story, he had to eat the nurse after crashing into the tundra on a medical mercy flight to evacuate a young boy. After a government inquiry the only real question they had of the unfortunate pilot was why he did not force the young Inuit to also eat a little more so that he might live as well? Having a few bulky beasts on the cargo manifest could be thought of as emergency rations now that we are not allowed to carry our own guns to provision ourselves if we land in some desolate corner of Canada.
Look for the silver lining in the dark clouds.
vburach
just a dumb Cossack
My gripe is with skinny young men who spread their knees so far apart they take up two seats on the bus. I have restrained myself but what I want to say is
"Buddy, put your knees together. In the first place what you got doesn't need that much air space. In the second place, once you have seen one little boy, you have seen them all."
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
You make me giggle.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Speaking of Cossacks, I am of course reminded of the story about the Zaporozhian Cossacks' famous reply to the Sultan Mehmet IV of the Ottoman Empire:
First the letter from the sultan:
Then the reply from the Zaporozhians:
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
http://www.kinkspace.com
While I agree with the poster below myself, and his solution to this problem, I fear it shall never be made reality.
My reasoning supporting this stems from the fact that the carriers would be labeled as biased, in the same way that they would be if they made sections specifically designed for handicapped people, or blind and deaf people. It's a simple matter of people not wanting to be seperated for disorders and whatnot.
I do not believe obesity is a clinical disorder, however, I do believe it is a pandemic.
Prevention and good eating habits are not enforced here in America, but rather we believe in immediate gratification, with no regard to the consequences.
*Sorry, the poster is indeed several paces above myself. I am new to this forum. *
I guess I could just decide to stick my elbow out and into said 'fat' while remaining within the borders of my seat.
Don't like it? well, that's too damn bad because it wouldn't effect you if you weren't encroaching on my personal space.
They should have a test seat at the ticket counter where you have to sit in it (much the way they judge the size of carryons)...
if you don't fit - you must buy another seat. Really you're buying x amount of space anyway.
If you don't fit in x you should be required to buy 2x
"Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girls sports, such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing and such."
Homer Simpson
You got it. I think you can attribute that attitude to the McMedia 30 second sound bite society we live in. Not just food, but politics and materialism.
We cant be happy unless we have something NOW! Politics in America is not about problem solving long term, it is about winning NOW! Many in this country consume so much because being able to wipe your ass with 1,000 bills must be the only goal in life. EVEN after the gouging gas prices went down AND after the car companies were bailed out, they are still selling gas hogging pickups and SUVS and even the economy class cars MPG aren't any higher than before.
I do think weight is not black or white. I think it is a combo of eating habits and family genetics or either or. I think some people can help it and I think others CAN help it but still have genetic and or medical problems that make it more difficult than if someone doesn't.
I do think if you have a weight problem, using the drive through every day probably isn't helping.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
If im remembering right i read somewhere only 2% of all cases of obesity can be put down to a "disease". I duno if that includes genetics. But if thats true its very telling. And means I can quite safely say buy another seat with a good chance It will be there own fault. Personally I don't do alot of exsecise, but i do keep myself in shape, small meals walking roughly 5km+ a day (not as a conscience effort just out of nessesity). Small things maybe not enough to lose weight but perfect for my needs of keeping a belly that may want to expand at bay.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.