Do you hate the idea of God?
Offline My deconversion has been going on slowly and somewhat painfully for the past two years. In that time I have grown really hostile towards organized religion and its mind control tactics as well as towards its followers that use them. However, the idea of God is still appealing. Although I can't bring myself to ignore logic, and the complete lack of evidence for a deity, I can't help but hope that I am going to eventually stumble upon some argument proving the existence of something beyond the physical world. It appears though that, unless I'm mistaken, many people on this site hate the very idea of a god and wouldn't want one to exist even if they somehow had that option. Maybe I'm just not an experienced enough atheist to come to that conclusion but I am interested to know if you guys would or would not want a god to exist? why? and if you would, what qualities would you want your god to have? Would it be similar to any of the mythological gods already created by humanity?
I Am My God
The absence of evidence IS evidence of absence
- Login to post comments
I don't care. If someone can show evidence their gods aren't just made up beings in their heads, then I'll go for it.
Otherwise, I don't see what the point is. I don't miss any other fictional creations either.
Organised religions I'll pass on. They are just systems of abusive relationships and taking advantage of people.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
I don't hate the idea of god. Don't know if I like the idea either though. I lean towards liking the idea of god though. I like the idea that there is more to life than paying your taxes on time. That said the christian god I find boring, same with most of the "popular" gods. I quite like the idea of the gods in raymond e feist's books (currently rereading them). Not that that means I would want them to be real but I like the idea of them. I imagen it would be very crappy if they were real
crappy but interesting. if you are unfamiliar with the books here is a list of the gods
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midkemia#Gods
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
They also spend their free time screwing with people.
I would say they are very close to the Greek gods.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
yeah I like the greek gods as well well to the extent I know them which isn;'t to much, but as when I saw the post I just finished Rage of a demon king they weren't the first gods that came to mind that I like the idea of. I don't like the idea of perfect gods, it makes them boring.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
as others have touched on, it depends on whose idea you're talking about.
i love the god ideas of blake, emerson, yeats, dylan thomas, john donne, spinoza, swedenborg, gibran, omar khayyam, rumi, thomas merton, etc.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
I hate the idea of a god. Even the Jeffersonian, "I made this then left it alone" god. The thought of being deliberately put on such a hostile planet, even if there were no crime or war. Disease, earth quakes, volcanos, tsunamis, wild fires, mudslides, hypothermia, heat stroke, poisonous animals, bacteria........ect ect ect.....
Pile on crime and war, not to mention the hostile solar system and universe.
The only way I can cope with this is to know that all this is natural and random. The thought of this being a "plan" is sick.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
At this point, everyone already has a sort of preconceived idea of what 'god' actually is. With things like pantheism, I don't really see the point of calling the universe god, because the connotation of the very word 'god,' for most, entails a completely different perspective than what the pantheist sees. As such, even if consciousness is found to be a fundamental property of energy/matter (as is the view of panentheism), I'd rather we just consider it as is, and not try to glorify it by calling it god. Doing so convolutes the definition of a word already far too convoluted. This is why I, personally, don't like the word 'god.'
Note: To hate god is to personify god. I find the idea of god being a person preposterous.
My Website About Roller Coaster Design
What is that last line supposed to mean?
Making a "pretend" "if" "for example only" argument is not the same as actually believing the argument.
IF we are pretending FOR EXAMPLE ONLY, that a god exists, I would feel intellectually obligated to hate such a being. Since no such being exists, the REAL thing in REAL life I hate is that these claims persist in human minds as if they are fact.
I find the idea of a god being real preposterous.
The reality I see is that humans project human qualities on the world around them which humans falsely mistake as being a real god, rather than their mundane human imagination.
If you are not familiar with the word "anthropomorphism", look it up.
I don't hate god/s anymore than I hate Micky Mouse. But it should drive anyone nuts, who is sane, if someone else went around claiming and truely believing that Micky Mouse was a real talking mouse outside a cartoon.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
The question is "Do you hate god?" It is personification of a concept that has some definitions that aren't persons. It was to notify OP that not all ideas of 'god' are persons, aka it is grammatically incorrect to hate them... Idk, threw it in as an afterthought. It isn't important.
Like I said, there are ideas regarding 'god' that are far more reasonable (some actually possible), my point was originally to not call them 'god,' because, as you and I both know, those concepts are preposterous.
I know what it is. But not all views of 'god' are anthropomorphic. The ones that are are preposterous (that's what the last line meant). There are some ideas that aren't as ridiculous, though. And I think those should stop using the word 'god' because of convolution.
My Website About Roller Coaster Design
The idea of a god doesn't bother me as much as the pushing of said idea and formulation of laws that are based around this idea do. If you want to have an irrational idea, fine...go sit in the corner with your other irrational friends. But stay off my lawn.
Dolt:"Evolution is just a theory."
Me:"Yes, so is light and gravity. Pardon me while I flash this strobe while dropping a bowling ball on your head. This shouldn't bother you; after all, these are just theories."
"GOD" "god" "deity" "something is out there" is merely an argument from ignorance and a gap answer.
The only good use for those words/concepts today for proper use is to expose it for what it is, a fraud.
The word that aptly describes this has been around for quite a while, "anthropomorphism".
The laymen SHOULD call it imagination, but if we are going to get fancy about it "anthropomorphism" is MENSA language for " Look at my huge IQ".
God/deity/magic/superstition ARE ALL THE SAME MONSTER, they are the species lazy answers because real investigation, and the fear of being finite scare us.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
But certain philosophical positions are not saying 'something is out there' or are superstitious. They are offering a different explanation for the way we understand certain things we don't yet understand. Like my example with consciousness is coupled with things like the quantum theory of mind (which is scientific in nature). These are not simplistic assertions of magic. They at least warrant rational examination and shouldn't be written off as stupid or lazy. They are few, I admit, but they aren't as horrific as you make them seem to be.
My Website About Roller Coaster Design
This reminds me of a recent thread: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/19067 See if that rings any bells for you.
As for what I would like in a god? If there were really an omnipotent being out there, why not have an endless personal relationship with it, of the sort, "Hey, Natural, how's it going? Want to see something cool? Come on, I'll show you this new universe I just created." And off we'd go on awesome adventures.
Why the heck not? Why is it that the universe is *conspicuously* 'designed' so as to 'appear' to not require any designer? Why is said designer 'mysteriously' unavailable to answer my questions? Why doesn't god just start an account on RRS and answer every challenge we can think of?
Really, when you consider that omnipotence really means the ability to do *anything*, well, why couldn't a god do these things? It would take literally *zero* effort.
So, a desirable god would be one which is helpful, available, effective, funny, likes to go on long walks on the beach, and a Scorpio. Why the fuck not? It's like coming up with your 'perfect match', but this person can literally do anything. The only limit is the imagination. Oh, and the fact that such a god is *obviously* not real. See, that's the tricky part. All the gods of the religions are conspicuously impossible to actually know whether they exist. Anything that they 'do' has to be such that it could have been done by purely natural processes. Why? Because if the religious claimed that god could do X, and X doesn't happen, oops, there goes that god out the window. It's only by people not being curious enough to actually test their claims, that they are able to make any claims at all (such as prayer).
Knowing a god would be the most amazing thing besides actually being a god yourself. I don't hate the idea of gods. In fact, the Greek myths are one of my earliest and favourite stories. I loved the idea of these gods, even though they were limited and imperfect. However, knowing a god who is responsible for *this* universe as it is would *not* be amazing. It would be extremely disappointing. Anyone who's suffered or has witnessed suffering should know this.
It is obvious that gods are human inventions. They are products of the imagination. The fact that you even asked us to imagine up a desirable god should tell you something about the origins of god concepts.
So no, I don't hate the idea of *possible* gods that could have existed but don't, or even *fictional* ones that are characters in a story/myth. And I'm sufficiently confident in my atheism to not even bother hating the idea of a god who is responsible for this universe as it is; I don't see any reason to imagine such a being exists. What I'm strongly against is the idea that human-invented gods are actually real, and that we should actually be worried about what they think or expect us to do or believe.
Wonderist on Facebook — Support the idea of wonderism by 'liking' the Wonderism page — or join the open Wonderism group to take part in the discussion!
Gnu Atheism Facebook group — All gnu-friendly RRS members welcome (including Luminon!) — Try something gnu!
I am not saying YOU are stupid or lazy.
I AM saying that when we don't know, we say we don't know.
Who is "they" when offering a "different" explination for the way we understand certain things?
I would hope scientific method is what we are talking about.
Quantum theory has nothing to do with junk like pantheism or "something is out there" much less the superstitious myth of the past. All it amounts to severe number crunching/
It doesn't amount to disembodied beings or the universe being a consciousness itself .
I am not sure what you are getting at by using words like "different"?
Whatever modern science we have is not based on "different" method. What method we use now may lead us to a sense of "awe" only in that we have an emotional reaction to something new, but it doesn't mean we need to cling to the past.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I think the idea of God is ugly. I also think it is stupid (but it's the ugly bit that really matters).
However, I don't find myself capeable of hating it. It just isn't that personal. It's like any number of other stupid ideas that make people ugly. True to my aristocratic nature, I discard all lofty ideas of moral and ethics, opting rather for an aesthetic paradigm; where the worship and venration of things that are beautiful is as close to having a religion as I will ever get.
Generally speaking, I avoid having any contact with "believers". I think they are ugly people who are promoting ugliness in the world - and I want no part of that. I refuse to work for them, or with them, or in any other way conducting any kind of business with them. I avoid them the same way I keep my distance to venomous critters from the animal kingdom.
"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind." (Alphonse Donatien De Sade)
http://www.kinkspace.com
Like I said, I see no point in labeling it theism, HOWEVER it is not typical theism. By sheer nature, they are not scientific in that they are philosophical positions, i.e. they are beliefs regarding what will become true, and they can be based on science. Technically you and I have our own beliefs in what will become true. I assume that you, too, believe it will be possible to describe consciousness in a classical sense. BUT, as you even said, we don't yet know for sure. Invoking quantum as an explanation means that if that is true, then consciousness is something that is an aspect of the quantum world, in that it is a part of all matter. This can be entirely scientific. Like you said, we don't know, but we have our convictions. My point is that even though they label it theism for reasons that escape me, what they base it on MAY NOT BE IMPOSSIBLE. I agree with you that it being 'theist' is beyond me, but like any label that doesn't mean everyone is as irrational as we think they are.
FYI, my limit as far as philosophy is concerned is monism. I don't agree with any dualistic view, but can somewhat understand most monistic views.
My Website About Roller Coaster Design
The idea of living in the Playboy mansion is appealing, but is that any reason to believe that I actually do?
And if there was this proof, it would just mean that the deity was a natural phenomena and not beyond the physical world. The 'spiritual' world is just fantasy land.
If this god did exist, he would either have to be indifferent to human suffer or not all powerful(not much of a god).
You should read Christopher Hitchens books. Having a god would be like living in North Korea only a 1000 times worse with all the constant surveillance.
Can I be god and put everyone into a continuous state of euphoria? No surveillance, no morality.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
I find that I cannot hate something that simply does not exist. I have tried, very hard to hate the ideal but it is simply not there.
"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."
VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"
If man was formed from dirt, why is there still dirt?
I'd have to say I don't want a god. I'd like to be powerful and sorted enough to be in control of circumstances without needing to resort to outside help. That would like include my not dying if I didn't feel like it and having water views and whatever the hell else suits me in any given moment.
I think Natural's idea of a cool mate god is neat - imagine going to watch the grand final at god's. What sort of a big screen would that bastard have? Fucking massive. In fact, mate god would always have tickets.
In terms of the OP I admit I hate the christian god of my parents - I don't think he has any redeeming features at all.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I don't hate the IDEA of a god. I don't like the idea that much though... one being with all of that limitless power to use arbitrarily as it wants...
A god would have to be an it. If it doesn't procreate sexually then it wouldn't have a gender.
I do hate organised religion though.
If there were a god I'd go for some deist type god who doesn't interfere, and is therefore irrelevant to our lives anyway.
If there were an interventionist god, how about one who is actually on the side of love and peace and wouldn't tollerate all of the bullshit and violence in the world.
A god who would make itself known and say, "hey, here I am. No, no, get up, no need to worship me. Like I really care that much what you think. I am god, afterall. Why would your love matter to me? But how about you stop all of that religious bullshit, sensless violence, rape and all that nasty stuff. I am looking down on you and it is making me sick. From now on I will vaporise any offenders, instantly. I can do it, you know. Other than that exercise all the free will you want, be nice to each other and.... wake up as far as that pseudoscience alternative healing crap goes. I mean, really, I did give you a brain. Try to use it now and then. I probably won't appear again, but I will vaporise bad guys such as I mentioned, so you can use that as continued evidence of my existence."
Zen-atheist wielding Occam's katana.
Jesus said, "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." - Luke 12:51