Changed my mind.
Offline Hi,
First of all i would like to say this website and the work you guys do is amazing. I am intimidated by how smart many of you are and the way you can express your thoughts in words. How anyone can believe in a god after spending any time here is unbelievable.
Ok, about myself. Please excuse my poor gramer. I was not raised a Christian, but converted about the age of 19 and stayed a Christian for 5 years. Many things happened and changed my mind about my faith or lack of. Here are just a few points from the top of my head that turned my thinking: The Rapture or lack of bible evidence of one, Lack of miracles and answered prayer, Bible contradictions, Lack of feeling a real Heavenly Father. Now i was a die-hard Christian and had proof to show. I converted my entire family, many friends, cousins, aunts, uncles...random people on the street. I am the type of person that does everything with passion. If i do it, i do it all the way. It began with this one incident in 1997 - -
I had been reading a Binny Hinn book and how he had a power come over him in his room. I wanted that, so i dedicated myself to duplicate what he had done. I fasted for 3 days, only water. I was going to meditate standing up and repeat over and over the HAALLAALLUAA song. I did this for a long time, at least an hour. I held my hands upward...then all of a sudden something happened. I started to feel a tingling sensation in my hands. Then felt something coming down my head...like some type of liquid. It got strong and strong untill it came in like waves, over and over. Next thing i knew i was on the floor, like this massive electrical shock hit me, my fingers were curled up so hard it hurt and i struggled to unclitch them. This lasted a few minutes and of course i thought i had encountered the holy spirit. From that night on, i was 100% convinced everyone was on their way to hell and it was me who needed to save them. From that night on, when i don’t eat or don’t get enough sleep for a few days...i feel this drip or liquid coming down the crown of my head. Even just the “thought” of it makes it appear. I would have many other experiences like this as a Christian but none as strong as the first. Even today as an Athiest, i can still feel it.
Last year, i started my own business and the stress was so diffcult to deal with, i began having panic attacks. My first one i didn’t know what it was, i started trying to breath deeper. Next thing i know, i am feeling a tingling sensation in my hands. I try breathing more air thinking i wasn’t getting enough, next thing i know, my fingers are clintching together and i can’t move. I thought i was going to die. In the emergency room they told me i was having a panic attack and that i had hyperventilated. Later i reflected and realized that i had experienced that same feelings years before. So much for the powerful holy ghost.
Today, i still deal with some issues. One, my parents and sibblings are still Christians. So because of what i had done in the past i am still haunted today by it. They try to pray for me and continue to believe i will return back to the faith. Last year my dad told me i will never be a success because i don’t have god as the foundation and that my relationship with my wife won’t last. I have explained to them why i no longer believe or don’t have the ability to. They still don’t get it. Also, because i have clients that are Christians/Catholics, i have to be quiet about my beliefs. Which is unfair because i am very proud to be an Athiest and sucks i can’t show it. I would love to organize groups in my town. I would love to be part of a giant movement. As one paster that talked to me after i changed my mind, he said “well, now you are fighting against us”. No sir, i have yet to fight against you. Maybe someday.
You know, as a Christian i believed the world was against you, but you had others to stand next to you. As an Atheist, i believe the world is against you...but you don’t have anyone to stand with you. This place has been the only place i can find comfort. And i thank all of you and appreciate you.
Thanks for reading a very small part of my story...
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Offline Your grammar is excused, I am in no position to judge grammar and hope that you would return the courtesy. I, like you, was not raised a Christian but become a believer at about 25 years old. First of all, in responding to what you've written above let me say that I respect your decision not to believe. I think that it is a personal matter and no one is in a position to question or to judge. I think this way because it doesn't matter what reasons you have for doing so from my or anyone else's perspective. It is your decision. I would point out that even if you did still believe you may reject God. It isn't necessarily about belief, the demons know and still reject God.On the other hand when someone criticizes the Bible, if I disagree with what they are saying I speak up in that regard. The reasons you gave show a lack of understanding probably caused by religious affiliation.
I wanted to respond to this section, but i’ve had a few margaritas tonight so i will do my best. I agree, i have no problem people using religion to gain comfort and help them get through life. For me, it only brought a lot of pain and guilt. Some of the ministers i followed were Phil Munsey, John Olsten, Steve Gallagher. Not sure you are familiar with any of them.
The Rapture, for example, is only about 200 years old. It was only made popular in the early 19th century by an English preacher named John Nelson Darby. If you have doubts about the Rapture you are not alone. The Bible plainly teaches that flesh and blood can't inherit heaven, and that heaven was created for God whereas the earth was created for man. Nowhere in the Bible or early Christianity is the rapture taught. The Bible also teaches that miracles happened for a reason and would be a limited thing. None of the miracles of the very early Christians took place without there being either Jesus or his disciples present. Even though it seems that miracles take place throughout scripture they are a relatively brief and isolated series of events for instructional purposes.
Munsey taught the lack of a rapture in the bible. You are correct about Darby. Many Christians have no clue about him or his teachings. Munsey also taught the idea that the bible never teaches of an eternal hell. A lot of stuff, the basic idea i was getting at was that the bible confused me. I read the bible all the time. The more i read, the more confused i got. I worked with a baptist guy who showed me the other side of Christianity. A side that had no power or belief. It almost seemed the Devil had powers to showcase, yet gods people had none. He taught about the sovereignty of god. The 100 thousand that died in Haiti was gods doing. That type of thought horrified me of this god. He was behind it all.
Bible contradictions? I've never seen one I couldn't resolve. There are very few actual contradictions, and those are caused by other factors such as copyist errors which can be compared to other manuscripts, religious interpretations that cause confusion, or any other form of confusion by the reader.
The resurrection story. No need to read any other part of the bible to find a greater contradiction. None of the 4 stories match. Anyways, the whole bible is a joke. Once i was no longer brainwashed and re-read parts of it i just laughed. The whole book is a farce.
Prayer is often misunderstood and abused as well. People who pray to pass an exam or win a football game or get over a cold or any mundane sort of thing are not very understanding in how prayer works or even how to properly pray according to the Bible's instruction.The lack of feeling of the presence of a Heavenly Father can also be overestimated in a variety of ways. People tend to go from one extreme to the other. They imagine to the point of creating something in the mind that isn't real, or they wrongly perceive some absence by a lack of that overestimation.
You know, if you pray/meditate all the time you will go crazy. Actual scientific studies are done about it. I used to pray all the time, so much that i ran out of things to pray for. I got so bored praying the same things over and over and over and over again. I think praying to the walls messed up my mind.
It wasn’t just a lack of presence by god, it was more than that. My own earthly father treated me better than this so call heavenly father. This so called god was no-where to be found. I did all that he wanted, i prayed and gave my life and money for him, yet he was no-where to be found. Not once have i ever heard a word from him.
I asked god that night (i changed my mind)...if you are real, show yourself to me. I stayed up all night, he never came...and still has not some 9 years later. If he shows up tonight, i would become a Christian and do everthing he asks.
Bottom line is this. People believe because they feel they have no choice. They have to believe and i understand that. I just can’t believe a lie. Besides, with religion out of the way i was able to learn about myself and life. I got over my shyness, got laid for the first time, married and had healthy kids. And lastly, i found everlasting love...in myself. No more guilt.
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Offline I am dirt poor. If I tried to explain "infinite regress" to the guy who owns the place I work, his head would explode.
"Success" means what? The ability to make money? The CEOs of drug companies, insurance companies and banks and car companies have been successful at making money and the middle and poor classes are now paying for their "success".
"Success" is not a title or a class. Just be yourself and don't compare yourself to others or what they have or dont have. If a business is what you want, fine. But to do that there will be people under you and they are not numbers on a page.
I would rather be poor knowing what I know now, than to give that knowledge up for material gain.
A "success" to me is anyone who does good. Good is not class owned and class doesn't automatically make you good.
Good point. I believe you have to bust your ass to get anything in life. Has nothing to do with god.
Are you a skins fan or just mocking them with your avatar? I am a die-hard Cowboys fans. 
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Offline Bottom line is this. People believe because they feel they have no choice. They have to believe and i understand that. I just can’t believe a lie. Besides, with religion out of the way i was able to learn about myself and life. I got over my shyness, got laid for the first time, married and had healthy kids. And lastly, i found everlasting love...in myself. No more guilt.
Good for you, you got out while you still could. Some people never escape.
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pleased to meet you. It was interesting to read your thoughts about the god who wasn't there.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
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Offline Hi everlasting, I really enjoyed reading your insights regarding your religious experiences and more importantly the lack of them. Welcome to the forum. ( I'm a former fundamentalist Christian. )
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Offline Welcome..
Yes, you can't have a decent marriage or a decent job. Hell, You can't even have a decent meal without thanking God for it... Talk about product placement, these guys know what they are doing.
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs
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welcome
That's so harsh, I don't know how people can say this to their child. My mom is the same way and has the same mentality, twisted isn't it. Welcome to the site.
I am dirt poor. If I tried to explain "infinite regress" to the guy who owns the place I work, his head would explode.
"Success" means what? The ability to make money? The CEOs of drug companies, insurance companies and banks and car companies have been successful at making money and the middle and poor classes are now paying for their "success".
"Success" is not a title or a class. Just be yourself and don't compare yourself to others or what they have or dont have. If a business is what you want, fine. But to do that there will be people under you and they are not numbers on a page.
I would rather be poor knowing what I know now, than to give that knowledge up for material gain.
A "success" to me is anyone who does good. Good is not class owned and class doesn't automatically make you good.
"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under Brian James Rational Poet, @Brianrrs37 on Twitter and my blog at www.brianjamesrationalpoet.blog
I'm new here myself, but welcome to the forum. I also have to say that I have no problem with continuing my belief in God.
Your grammar is excused, I am in no position to judge grammar and hope that you would return the courtesy. I, like you, was not raised a Christian but become a believer at about 25 years old. First of all, in responding to what you've written above let me say that I respect your decision not to believe. I think that it is a personal matter and no one is in a position to question or to judge. I think this way because it doesn't matter what reasons you have for doing so from my or anyone else's perspective. It is your decision. I would point out that even if you did still believe you may reject God. It isn't necessarily about belief, the demons know and still reject God.
On the other hand when someone criticizes the Bible, if I disagree with what they are saying I speak up in that regard. The reasons you gave show a lack of understanding probably caused by religious affiliation.
The Rapture, for example, is only about 200 years old. It was only made popular in the early 19th century by an English preacher named John Nelson Darby. If you have doubts about the Rapture you are not alone. The Bible plainly teaches that flesh and blood can't inherit heaven, and that heaven was created for God whereas the earth was created for man. Nowhere in the Bible or early Christianity is the rapture taught. The Bible also teaches that miracles happened for a reason and would be a limited thing. None of the miracles of the very early Christians took place without there being either Jesus or his disciples present. Even though it seems that miracles take place throughout scripture they are a relatively brief and isolated series of events for instructional purposes.
Bible contradictions? I've never seen one I couldn't resolve. There are very few actual contradictions, and those are caused by other factors such as copyist errors which can be compared to other manuscripts, religious interpretations that cause confusion, or any other form of confusion by the reader.
Prayer is often misunderstood and abused as well. People who pray to pass an exam or win a football game or get over a cold or any mundane sort of thing are not very understanding in how prayer works or even how to properly pray according to the Bible's instruction.
The lack of feeling of the presence of a Heavenly Father can also be overestimated in a variety of ways. People tend to go from one extreme to the other. They imagine to the point of creating something in the mind that isn't real, or they wrongly perceive some absence by a lack of that overestimation.
I think that would be a case of your over excitement and creating something that isn't actually there. Or you have some mental or physical problem you might want to get checked out. It could also be demons, but I would guess one of the first two possibilities.
There ya' go. Problem solved.
You remind me of me. I began to study the Bible as an atheist thinking that I could end religion forever. After discovering the Bible is true and religion was wrong I thought that honest open minded Christians would listen to reason from the Bible. Learning that was naive of me I thought skeptics and atheists were the ones who would listen to reason. Trust me. You will save a great deal of time and, especially being as passionate as you are, if you are like me, you will save yourself a great deal of frustration. The best you can do is study the Bible more carefully than the majority of Christianity would allow, and study to a lesser extent, the history of Judaism, Christianity and religion in general.
I personally have learned that most people on any side of the paradigm are completely ignorant of the Bible and for the sake of what they believe or don't believe, they would have it no other way. They don't want to know, they want to believe. Not believing is just the other side of the coin. It really is about "religion" which has nothing to do with gods, it is human nature. You find "religious" thinking in politics, music, art, literature, fashion, sports . . . every human endeavor creates a "religious" hysteria and closed mindedness. My music is best and my salvation, my politics, my art, etc. It is a very powerful and yet subtle aspect of human thought that transcends the spiritual.
Keep an open mind under trial and go with what you believe without tricking yourself into it again.