Question for Christian theists (or anyone) about teaching Christianity from scratch
Offline So at work there is a guy who is being tutored about Christianity, from scratch, and from the Bible. He is an Asian without any explicit religious experience besides a vague notion of Buddhism. Young, socially awkward, smart guy though, an educated engineer.
When his mentor (I'm not sure who approached whom, I don't really care), started to explain the Bible to him he started with John, which is pretty common.
And that started my question: Is it "fair" to start like that, without explaining the OT history first? It just seems odd to dump "Jesus loves you" on a person without any explanation of what God is, whom Jesus is, where the universe came from, the basis of morality in Jewish history...all that stuff. Like you hit them with the heaviest emotional blow you have, and only resort to the nitty gritty if they question you.
Wouldn't it be more honest to start in the beginning? Or is everything outside of John 3:16 just superfluous when you are trying to convert from scratch? I guess doing it any other way would lower the effectiveness though. Good luck getting an engineer with a degree from another culture to buy into literal Genesis flat footed.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
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Well, they should cover the whole Bible.
But, usually, the Christians aren't really being dishonest as much as they are simply showing the non-Christians their favorite parts of the Bible. Most Christians haven't read big chunks of the Bible, and even fewer Christians have read big chunks of the OT. Generally, they just read the little NT excerpts (and some selected verses from Genesis, Exodus, Job, Proverbs, etc.) that their pastors spoon-feed to them on Sundays. And, of course, there's also some cognitive dissonance involved...
Trying to indoctrinate an engineer into a religion that he/she knows nothing about is.....probably futile. I mean, seriously, even if he's had little experience with Christianity, he must have had experiences with some forms of woo-woo crap. If he didn't believe those things, then he should have no problem eventually giving these Christians the boot.
Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare
Maybe, but who knows. The guy is just a kid, very socially inexperienced, and he could get sucked in by the community and emotional stuff.
Since I would rather not get fired, I'm not going to set myself up as a anti-religious voice for him, but I did talk to him a bit and sent him links to religioustolerance.org adherents.org and the religion section of Wiki.
How does it go? Teach about one religion and you indoctrinate, teach about all religions and you inoculate.
But I don't see how he could make it through the OT unless the guy teaching him is a liberal who just says it is all ancient history and allegory.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
My daughter-in-law is Korean - and a Presbyterian. She had Korean language books on jesus when she was here visiting. I find it hard to believe anyone has grown up in this world without hearing about christianity. Particularly if the kid has a university degree. There isn't a campus in the world that doesn't have religious nuts. Even the Chinese. Last company I worked for had three offices in China, one in Taiwan, and one in Singapore. I never met or talked to anyone who had never heard of christianity, though I admit I never made that the topic of any discussion. Just that they were all aware of US holidays and the religious roots of many of them.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
Well of course he has heard of it, but that is not the same as being familiar with it. He was raised in a non religious family where it just wasn't talked about.
Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.
Tell him to just read the bible - start to finish. No skipping around. That should cure him.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
LMFAO! QFT.
CJ's right there, Mellestad.
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Fred Phelps also read the bible. Do you think he's cured?
I guess it all depends on how naive and superstitious he is.
"I don't believe in afterlife, although I am bringing a change of underwear."
I was relying on his engineering background. He should have learned about reality somewhere along the line. And if he takes notes and foot note things, it shouldn't take long for him to figure out it is a major waste of time.
Phelps is a disbarred lawyer.
-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.
"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken
"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.
for some reason, east asians seem to have an affinity for christianity, especially koreans. last year i read a lengthy biography of the kim dynasty in north korea. it was very detailed and often a bit tedious, and much of it consisted of interviews with defectors. the book painted the korean people as a whole as being very emotional and prone to fits of religious adoration. when they escape the north they turn that adoration from the kims to jesus christ. it seemed like the whole pattern of defection came in three steps:
1. escape to the south
2. buy a rolex watch (seriously, that's one of the first things defectors do when they're able)
3. become an evangelical christian
i've read about korean churches actually praying that american christians would encounter government persecution in order to revive their religious ardor.
"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson
When you market anything you go with the parts that will get the buyer to be enthralled with your product. Christians clearly do this with the Jesus died for you and me bit. If they first went through the OT, most of their hopeful converts would run away around the time the god killed many at Sinai, allowed the Philistines to dominate because of the sinfulness of the Israelites, allowed Assyria to devastate Israel, then Judah seizing captives, allowed Babylon to destroy forever Judah, allowed the Seleucid Empire to systematically kill Jews and then allowed the Romans to take over Judea.
Starting with God so loved the World he sent his only begotten son shows the god has love and compassion and sidesteps he's actually into S & M and schizophrenic.
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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.