How we better the world

NoMoreCrazyPeople
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How we better the world

   I'm often asked by friends/family and others what can we do to better the world.  I have many friends who don't believe our species can be saved.  I am of the mind that whether we can achieve a global peacefull loving society or not is irrelevant, to be honorable and noble we need to atleast try.  

   I was just driving home from work and pulled in the gas station to fill up.  Inside their was a man who could barely speak english getting poor directions from the attendant.  He asked me if I knew where the address was and I pointed it out to him and he left out that way.  When I drove off I saw he was walking, his destination was atleast an hour walk and it was drizzing.  So I picked him up and took him their, guy was a family man from Nigeria, big smile, truly nice guy.  I dropped him off and he said "you mada my day broda."

   So when people ask me what regular people can do I say, this kinda shit.  Most people like me are probably not going to have a great impact on the world politically/scientifically or medically.  But we are the people, we are the most important, better science/medicin and better politics will only lead to just that.  The most important thing of all to go along with that is bettering the way the general mass co-exist with and treat eachother on a day to day basis.  So what can we do, this shit!  All the time wherever and whenever we can as much as we can and most importantly for NO other reason than in the moment you felt it was a good thing to do.    

 

 


mellestad
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Yea, just be nice. I don't

Yea, just be nice.

 

I don't think atheism has any path that is 'better' for religion, because it doesn't say anything about that.  But I do think, as atheists, we can have all the benefits of being good, moral people who contribute beneficially to society without the baggage of old religion.

 

So yea, good for you Crazy!

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


robj101
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Well at least we don't waste

Well at least we don't waste our time in church, going door to door preaching nor do we sit around and ponder if we have been good enough to go to heaven or if we are going to hell. Atheism promotes progress, both socially and technologicaly.

Religion strives to hold it down, and even regress in some cases.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


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This will be brief, thanks

This will be brief, thanks to the cursed french keyboard. The world is controlled by food, because everyone need to eat. Many people make food, and many people consume it. But there is only a few global distributors. They decide who will eat and live; and who will starve and die. And they decide that money will make the difference between life and death. They decide at what prices they will buy labour and food, so the people can't make enough money to buy their food back, together with other necessities for life.

Food, water and other basic needs should not be an object of trade, because trade is based on scarcity and monopoly. And scarcity of necessities is catastrophic. Instead, these things must be shared. As demonstrated in OP, sharing feels good. But there is no market or official mechanism to estabilish global sharing. It requires activism and grassroots movement. Every contract can be violated through power of massive public opinion, and so should it be with food market contracts.
Sharing is not only providing food, it's very personal and powerful way to estabilish trust and good international relationships, a key to solve crises. I'm sure that all Africa and Middle East will pardon the heathens, who will share food with them.

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The means in which you take...

Dictate the ends to which you find yourself.

Everything that we do in our time on earth does something. We have the choice to try and help others, knowing that creating lasting connections with other people will help us in the long run, or to do nothing for others and end up alone.

robj101 wrote:

Well at least we don't waste our time in church, going door to door preaching nor do we sit around and ponder if we have been good enough to go to heaven or if we are going to hell. Atheism promotes progress, both socially and technologicaly.

Religion strives to hold it down, and even regress in some cases.

I agree completely, we have more time we can devote to others things which enrich our lives and the lives of potentially many others.

Luminon wrote:
The world is controlled by food, because everyone need to eat. Many people make food, and many people consume it. But there is only a few global distributors. They decide who will eat and live; and who will starve and die. And they decide that money will make the difference between life and death. They decide at what prices they will buy labour and food, so the people can't make enough money to buy their food back, together with other necessities for life.

Food, water and other basic needs should not be an object of trade, because trade is based on scarcity and monopoly. And scarcity of necessities is catastrophic. Instead, these things must be shared. As demonstrated in OP, sharing feels good. But there is no market or official mechanism to estabilish global sharing. It requires activism and grassroots movement. Every contract can be violated through power of massive public opinion, and so should it be with food market contracts.
Sharing is not only providing food, it's very personal and powerful way to estabilish trust and good international relationships, a key to solve crises. I'm sure that all Africa and Middle East will pardon the heathens, who will share food with them.

I'm amazed! A post by Luminon that I am in almost full agreement. Either I'm slipping into the woo, or Luminon is showing that his mind isn't completely made of fluff, and in this case I have to give it to the latter. So Luminon, take that as a complement, I don't know how many more I'll be giving you!

The only problems I see is right about here...

Luminon wrote:
Food, water and other basic needs should not be an object of trade, because trade is based on scarcity and monopoly.

Even if we are making sure that every person on the planet has access to essentials, moving that stuff around is trade. Trade isn't the problem, its the economic models that govern the practices of that trading that can be disastrous. One of the problems I have with current practices is with the commodification and stock trading of essential resources. I think it's an incredibly dangerous practice and pits the poor against one another for the crumbs that fall from the tables of the rich after they have been priced out of food and water. But I am in complete agreement that changes to international systems which will enable large scale distribution of essential resources to people has to be organized from the grassroots level, if it wants to be effective in solving local and regional problems and concerns.

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


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Luminon wrote:This will be

Luminon wrote:

This will be brief, thanks to the cursed french keyboard. The world is controlled by food, because everyone need to eat. Many people make food, and many people consume it. But there is only a few global distributors. They decide who will eat and live; and who will starve and die. And they decide that money will make the difference between life and death. They decide at what prices they will buy labour and food, so the people can't make enough money to buy their food back, together with other necessities for life.

Food, water and other basic needs should not be an object of trade, because trade is based on scarcity and monopoly. And scarcity of necessities is catastrophic. Instead, these things must be shared. As demonstrated in OP, sharing feels good. But there is no market or official mechanism to estabilish global sharing. It requires activism and grassroots movement. Every contract can be violated through power of massive public opinion, and so should it be with food market contracts.
Sharing is not only providing food, it's very personal and powerful way to estabilish trust and good international relationships, a key to solve crises. I'm sure that all Africa and Middle East will pardon the heathens, who will share food with them.

 

Farmers don't work for free, equipment isn't free, land isn't free, transportation isn't free, distribution isn't free....I don't see how your idea is feasible.

Countries already give food aid.  All you are suggesting is that rich countries foot 100% of the bill to feed poor countries, and that isn't exactly a great model to create self sustaining societies.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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B166ER wrote:I'm amazed! A

B166ER wrote:

I'm amazed! A post by Luminon that I am in almost full agreement. Either I'm slipping into the woo, or Luminon is showing that his mind isn't completely made of fluff, and in this case I have to give it to the latter. So Luminon, take that as a complement, I don't know how many more I'll be giving you!


Most of people here have no idea about my motives, because they don't study my sources. This is, because I'm not dangerous to their freedom, they won't spend time on something that is not nearly as bigg threat as Christianity. This is why I'm only known superficially, and so it is with esotericism.
You will probably not believe me, but this is something that both the greatest woo-wooists and scientists say for decades. In this topic, woo and rationality go hand in hand. This is what british esotericist Ben Creme propagates for decades, and what recently gained a lot of attention through writer and academic Raj Patel. As a kid I liked intellectual and spiritual pursuits and ignored politics and economy as boooriiing. But thanks to Ben Creme, his magazine and books I understood, that things like politics and economy are essential for life and eventually for self-realization.

From politics and economy it is very close to intellectual and even spiritual topics. Today's leaders are very afraid of thinking people, this is why we have such a gigantic consumer society that keeps the world busy, rich or not. Leaders have no idea who we are, where we came from and where are we going, so they give people bread (hamburger) and games. (Hollywood) But I have a good understanding of these fundamental questions of existence. When the stock markets will fall, food will be shared and wars will be stopped, there is something marvelous prepared for humanity, that will make the life an adventure of discovery and purpose.
The sense of life is to achieve every individual's highest potential, while living in harmony with others and environment. This is the key to golden age of mankid. All "utopies" that claimed to be an ideal civilization, violated this rule grossly, without exceptions.
Of course, esotericism takes it into much greater detail and leaves out nothing important. Believe it or not, "intelligent activity" and "science and concrete knowledge" are in esotericism considered as 2 of 7 fundamental attributes of existence. There is no danger that someone like me would lead the world back to medieval age, it's just not widely known.

B166ER wrote:
Even if we are making sure that every person on the planet has access to essentials, moving that stuff around is trade. Trade isn't the problem, its the economic models that govern the practices of that trading that can be disastrous. One of the problems I have with current practices is with the commodification and stock trading of essential resources. I think it's an incredibly dangerous practice and pits the poor against one another for the crumbs that fall from the tables of the rich after they have been priced out of food and water. But I am in complete agreement that changes to international systems which will enable large scale distribution of essential resources to people has to be organized from the grassroots level, if it wants to be effective in solving local and regional problems and concerns.

Correct. Now I'm on my good old keyboard again and so I can write properly. Moving stuff around is maybe a trade, or better said - barter. Sophisticated and transparent form of international barter must replace contemporary stock markets, that are rigged in favor of the richest. It's diffcult to imagine today how once people fundamentally believed in "free market" and advocated to spread that system to every country. In effect, people still believe this, and they will try to steal money by speculation as long as the stock markets will stand. Which will hopefully not be long. It will be painful but necessary, like awakening after binge.

Maybe I'll be ranting again a little, but it's weird how people denounce gods, but they still worship the gods of money, victory, superiority, entertainment, work, routine, and so on. To question everything as a certain hip-hop singer recites, means to question everything, and specially our style of life. For example, there's a belief, that money = happiness, and that being rich more than you can spend equals to salvation. Maybe it doesn't look like that, but I really don't like irrational beliefs.

 

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


ragdish
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But people won't stop eating cheeseburgers.

The greatest threat to humanity is global climate change. And it requires collective shift in behavior which will never happen. I think a pound of beef ultimately translates into X tons of CO2 emission or something like that after the meat is processed and shipped. People will always give into their personal pleasure cravings and get fat at Mikky Ds or the equivalent dining venues internationally. Unless this pleasure is replaced by an equally appealing environmentally friendly alternative (which I don't see happening in my lifetime) then we are all doomed!!! Doomed I tell you!!! Doomed!! Doomed!! DOOMED!!!!!! It will be the all beef pattie that ultimately poisons the atmosphere and forces our descendants into sterile domed cities wherein your life must end at age 30!! A burger and fries sounds good right now.


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And we're back to original Luminon style...

Luminon wrote:
When the stock markets will fall, food will be shared and wars will be stopped, there is something marvelous prepared for humanity, that will make the life an adventure of discovery and purpose.

I think you're being mighty optimistic on your estimates of drastic social shifts. No war (factional fighting)? I wish it wasn't there but I won't blind myself to reality.

ragdish wrote:
It will be the all beef pattie that ultimately poisons the atmosphere and forces our descendants into sterile domed cities wherein your life must end at age 30!! A burger and fries sounds good right now.

Not just cow, but all mass produced "food" animals, especially in factory farmed conditions, contribute to global CO2 levels.

I, on the other hand, think the coming revolt will be a little different...

"BEWARE THE LURKING SIMIAN MENACE!!!"

"This may shock you, but not everything in the bible is true." The only true statement ever to be uttered by Jean Chauvinism, sociopathic emotional terrorist.
"A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished." Mikhail Bakunin
"The means in which you take,
dictate the ends in which you find yourself."
"Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme leadership derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"
No Gods, No Masters!


Kapkao
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NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:  

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

   I'm often asked by friends/family and others what can we do to better the world.  I have many friends who don't believe our species can be saved.

The answer seems astoundingly clear to me: embody self-preservation, disregard the false notions of self found in so many other individuals, and maintain a sense of dignity while holding a means of critical thinking ready at all times, even as others around you falter and act solely on ignorance.

To wit:

"Your first response is usually the correct one"

 

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Quote:Not just cow, but all

Quote:
Not just cow, but all mass produced "food" animals, especially in factory farmed conditions, contribute to global CO2 levels.

Methane... you forgot methane. Quite a bit of ammonia as well, although this is easily corrected by nitrogen fixation.

B166ER wrote:

"BEWARE THE LURKING SIMIAN MENACE!!!"

"The wilderness safety film where apes evolve from man? There's got to be an answer!"

(I think one of them just flinged poo at me!)

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:  

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:

   I'm often asked by friends/family and others what can we do to better the world.  I have many friends who don't believe our species can be saved.  I am of the mind that whether we can achieve a global peacefull loving society or not is irrelevant, to be honorable and noble we need to atleast try.  

   I was just driving home from work and pulled in the gas station to fill up.  Inside their was a man who could barely speak english getting poor directions from the attendant.  He asked me if I knew where the address was and I pointed it out to him and he left out that way.  When I drove off I saw he was walking, his destination was atleast an hour walk and it was drizzing.  So I picked him up and took him their, guy was a family man from Nigeria, big smile, truly nice guy.  I dropped him off and he said "you mada my day broda."

   So when people ask me what regular people can do I say, this kinda shit.  Most people like me are probably not going to have a great impact on the world politically/scientifically or medically.  But we are the people, we are the most important, better science/medicin and better politics will only lead to just that.  The most important thing of all to go along with that is bettering the way the general mass co-exist with and treat eachother on a day to day basis.  So what can we do, this shit!  All the time wherever and whenever we can as much as we can and most importantly for NO other reason than in the moment you felt it was a good thing to do.    

If more people lived like this rather that simply not doing evil things, the world would be a better place. 

I was at the Oregon Coast, when I was at a gas station getting some drinks.  The person in front of me was using a debit card to pay for gas, and the debit card kept getting rejected.  He was clearly embarassed, and was explaining to the clerk, who was getting a bit impatient, that he just deposited money.  She said "Let me get this guy (referring to me) and we can see what we can do.  I told the clerk "Just add my drinks to his bill and I will cover it."  She said "Are you sure?  It's 40 bucks in gas!"  I said, "yeah, don't worry about it"  I paid for the gas, and the guy was about to go back to the cleark and asked her to call the bank.  The clerk said "That man covered it."  He just stared at me for about 30 seconds in disbelief.  He said "Hey, if you follow me I will get some cash from my wife."  I told him "No sweat.  I have been in your situation, and someone helped me out.   Just do the same for someone else when they are stuck and call it good."  As I left, they still stared at me at disbelief.

Yeah, I know it is the "pay it forward" thing from the movie, but I try to practice it.  40 bucks is not that big of a deal to me, and this poor guy gets out of a sticky situation.  Hopefully he will help someone else out when they need it.  He might, he might not...but if more people simply did the little things to help others it would go a long way. 

At the very least, people may become more civil, which is the first step in getting parties that disagree to find a common ground when trying to conquer more difficult issues.

Dolt:"Evolution is just a theory."
Me:"Yes, so is light and gravity. Pardon me while I flash this strobe while dropping a bowling ball on your head. This shouldn't bother you; after all, these are just theories."


Luminon
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ragdish wrote:The greatest

ragdish wrote:

The greatest threat to humanity is global climate change. And it requires collective shift in behavior which will never happen. I think a pound of beef ultimately translates into X tons of CO2 emission or something like that after the meat is processed and shipped. People will always give into their personal pleasure cravings and get fat at Mikky Ds or the equivalent dining venues internationally. Unless this pleasure is replaced by an equally appealing environmentally friendly alternative (which I don't see happening in my lifetime) then we are all doomed!!! Doomed I tell you!!! Doomed!! Doomed!! DOOMED!!!!!! It will be the all beef pattie that ultimately poisons the atmosphere and forces our descendants into sterile domed cities wherein your life must end at age 30!! A burger and fries sounds good right now.

Don't be so scary. People shift their behavior all the time! It's what evolution taught us. Gradually making beef more expensive will do the job. It's not like people are addicts on the beef. (except of about 50% of american population) People do what law and propaganda says, they are very influencible, they buy a different clothes every other while, because fashion changes all the time. So let's make something a fashion, and people will follow it. If people can do bad things and feel good about that, then with right fashion they can do good things and feel good about that too.

B166ER wrote:
I think you're being mighty optimistic on your estimates of drastic social shifts. No war (factional fighting)? I wish it wasn't there but I won't blind myself to reality.
Seriously, you mean like more fighting than is already today? Factional fighting is, what America encouraged and produced for decades. You know what is today the greatest source of conflicts and social tension in the world? USA and Israel, of course. Everyone want to have nukes, armies and tight regimes, so that they will be safe from USA and Israel. Or they are forced to climb United aSs of America, like whole NATO and EU. Last year's war in Gruzia was the test of how far will Russia permit the western influence. Not very far, apparently. American influence is what creates the violence, not the lack of it. Of course, I hope that the fall of american empire will be smoothest as possible to avoid the violence during that, but the "unexpected economic catastrophe" can unify people in good will. I think there are people in the world who can handle that. Good propaganda is a powerful tool. Everyone should know exactly what is wrong with the world.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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How do we improve the

How do we improve the world?

RAPE AND PILLAGE!

(Note to self: Did I think that or type it?)

DAMN YOU "POST COMMENT"!

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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